UK slips down Index of Economic Freedom rankings

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...=moretopstorie

UK slips down economic freedom rankings

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Originally Posted by thisismoney

Britain has fallen out of the top 15 most economically free countries in the world, according to a damning report today.

The UK has slipped five places to 16th in the Index of Economic Freedom published by The Wall Street Journal and the Institute of Economic Affairs.

Hong Kong was top and Singapore second followed by Australia, New Zealand and Switzerland.

Britain ranked a shocking 169th out of 179 for 'fiscal freedom' - the tax burden - behind nations such as Zimbabwe, Eritrea and the Congo.

It came 156th in 'government spending' as a result of the mammoth debts racked up by Labour.

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Wow and what a suprise, the countries with less regulation and less taxation are in better shape as per usual - need I say much more? now with the Tories in power you might think 'mhmm well they'll surely free up the economy and get things back on track again like they did in the 1980s, won't they?' - they can no longer do that anymore. This coalition government has already handed over supervision of the City of London (possibly our biggest asset) to the European Union which is notorious for its ridiculous rules, ranging from regulating wonky parsnips to the standardisation of tractor seats (i'm not making that up, yes they actually regulate all of that would you believe!).

On a final note, well done to the Labour Party for beating Zimbabwe to the bottom of the rankings.

Thoughts?

It's not surprising Switzerland are up near the top. My thoughts? Pull out of the EU, it's dragging countries into a debt laden hole where no-one wants to be but for some bizarre reason we and other EU countries aren't doing much to pull out. Labour were a terrible party, and the Conservatives (Lib Dems don't count, they're a party that change colour depending on who's whipping them) are just as bad.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

It's not surprising Switzerland are up near the top. My thoughts? Pull out of the EU, it's dragging countries into a debt laden hole where no-one wants to be but for some bizarre reason we and other EU countries aren't doing much to pull out. Labour were a terrible party, and the Conservatives (Lib Dems don't count, they're a party that change colour depending on who's whipping them) are just as bad.

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Yeah I kind of agree with you completely. We're getting pulled down and there's not a lot happening to resolve the situation spontaneously. Hong Kong are awesome!

This makes me want to leave the UK even more. It's a shame but I'm sick of the government, the EU and even the public (who are stupid enough to let this all happen - so about 99% of it).

This is hardly surprising anyway.

YEAH GO AMERICA!! number 9 baby

6 EFTA and 5 EU countries are ahead of us. it must be the EU holding us back.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

6 EFTA and 5 EU countries are ahead of us. it must be the EU holding us back.

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I'm not sure whether yoiu are aware of it or not, but Europe (the EU) is declining steeply down the ranks and growth is dire.

Why settle for the sinking ship of the EU? why not attempt to match Hong Kong and Singapore who have no natural resources yet are beacons of wealth with a good future ahead - we have natural resources also, so we can do much better than them just as Australia and New Zealand have.

What chance does Europe stand when it has a group on unelected crackpots ruling it with no business experience at all? none is the answer.

Here's some facts on the Eurozone and its failed economic 'market';

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Kzt...eature=related

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I'm not sure whether yoiu are aware of it or not, but Europe (the EU) is declining steeply down the ranks and growth is dire.

Why settle for the sinking ship of the EU? why not attempt to match Hong Kong and Singapore who have no natural resources yet are beacons of wealth with a good future ahead - we have natural resources also, so we can do much better than them just as Australia and New Zealand have.

What chance does Europe stand when it has a group on unelected crackpots ruling it with no business experience at all? none is the answer.

Here's some facts on the Eurozone and its failed economic 'market';

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2KztUNKj0o&feature=related

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Singapore and Hong Kong have very poor democracy and are incredibly small in comparison to the UK. Both of them added together are both just over the size of London. You'd love Singapore too! Everyone lives in social housing (way more than 90%) and satellite dishes are banned - they both have very poor standards on freedom of the press AND in Hong Kong businesses have seats in government. Both countries are very dense. The gap between rich and poverty in HK is astounding. Sounds very free eh?

Plus that is some non-sensical rubbish he's just spouted there. Youth Unemployment is and has been a problem in France and other countries for years, yet it is a national problem - nothing to do with the Eurozone. In fact i don't see how that is related. The USA has got a higher GDP per capita, yes, but also it has a greater income disparity than the EU. The far east is growing fast - typical for any area that is having a revolution in growth. China isn't even in the top 80 for GDP per capita. What powerhouses they are.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Singapore and Hong Kong have very poor democracy and are incredibly small in comparison to the UK. Both of them added together are both just over the size of London. You'd love Singapore too! Everyone lives in social housing (way more than 90%) and satellite dishes are banned - they both have very poor standards on freedom of the press AND in Hong Kong businesses have seats in government. Both countries are very dense. The gap between rich and poverty in HK is astounding. Sounds very free eh?

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Err sorry but thats not at all what i'm talking about - not once in this thread have I brought up freedoms or liberty apart from economic freedoms which Hong Kong and co. excel at compared to the western world. I am talking about their economic success compared to a failing Europe which is not being helped at all by a failed currency with socialist stlye economies which are failing under their massive burden of debt due to large public sectors which are unaffordable. Oh, and thats not to mention the masses of regulation that come from the political class in Brussels.

As for freedom which is a seperate issue, I don't think we're all that free over here do you? ID cards being planned, the erosion of habeas corpus which now means we can hold people without trial longer than do they in Zimbabwe - not to mention the amount of CCTV, councils using terrorism laws (all for our own safety, yeah right) to snoop on people.

The only difference is that we are better at hiding it.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Plus that is some non-sensical rubbish he's just spouted there. Youth Unemployment is and has been a problem in France and other countries for years, yet it is a national problem - nothing to do with the Eurozone. In fact i don't see how that is related. The USA has got a higher GDP per capita, yes, but also it has a greater income disparity than the EU. The far east is growing fast - typical for any area that is having a revolution in growth. China isn't even in the top 80 for GDP per capita. What powerhouses they are.

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The point he's making is that the Euro has failed from its intended aim which was to bring prosperity to Europe, all nonsense of course and i'm in no doubt that if the Euro was being introduced now you'd be one of the ones who would be telling me how having one currency would solve most of Europe's problems such as unemployment - well look now, it hasn't - it is a dismal failure which has only made things worse.

As for growth, high growth is just as achieveable in advanced economies - there is no reason for us not to grow at a fast rate as Hong Kong does. I think you'll see a shift in per capita very soon, look at the industrial revolution in the way wealth sprung up in the west and the east simpley declined. History hasn't ended, its just harder to see put in the modern world but it will still follow the same pattern more or less.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Err sorry but thats not at all what i'm talking about - not once in this thread have I brought up freedoms or liberty apart from economic freedoms which Hong Kong and co. excel at compared to the western world. I am talking about their economic success compared to a failing Europe which is not being helped at all by a failed currency with socialist stlye economies which are failing under their massive burden of debt due to large public sectors which are unaffordable. Oh, and thats not to mention the masses of regulation that come from the political class in Brussels.

As for freedom which is a seperate issue, I don't think we're all that free over here do you? ID cards being planned, the erosion of habeas corpus which now means we can hold people without trial longer than do they in Zimbabwe - not to mention the amount of CCTV, councils using terrorism laws (all for our own safety, yeah right) to snoop on people.

The only difference is that we are better at hiding it.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncome_equality

if you take another measure here, you will see that HK and SG are much further down the list in income equality, ie it shows that certain sectors (like banking and finance in these areas) means that there is an elite in both city states in comparison. Do you think economic growth and prosperity should be shared among only a few people. We don't have 'socialist-style' economies. Don't be stupid. ID cards have been scrapped due to public pressure like how a democracy works, much of the CCTV is owned privately and if im not mistaken there are measures coming in to prevent councils from doing that.

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The point he's making is that the Euro has failed from its intended aim which was to bring prosperity to Europe, all nonsense of course and i'm in no doubt that if the Euro was being introduced now you'd be one of the ones who would be telling me how having one currency would solve most of Europe's problems such as unemployment - well look now, it hasn't - it is a dismal failure which has only made things worse.

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Well sustained economic growth in all eurozone countries (and high growth in certain countries like Luxembourg) is your answer! Im unsure how you can blame the Euro for the current crisis.

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As for growth, high growth is just as achieveable in advanced economies - there is no reason for us not to grow at a fast rate as Hong Kong does. I think you'll see a shift in per capita very soon, look at the industrial revolution in the way wealth sprung up in the west and the east simpley declined. History hasn't ended, its just harder to see put in the modern world but it will still follow the same pattern more or less.

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Hong Kong does not grow as fast as China or less developed regions, granted, it grows faster than the UK but its ties with those countries (and location) allows for its relatively high growth with them.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ncome_equality

if you take another measure here, you will see that HK and SG are much further down the list in income equality, ie it shows that certain sectors (like banking and finance in these areas) means that there is an elite in both city states in comparison. Do you think economic growth and prosperity should be shared among only a few people. We don't have 'socialist-style' economies. Don't be stupid. ID cards have been scrapped due to public pressure like how a democracy works, much of the CCTV is owned privately and if im not mistaken there are measures coming in to prevent councils from doing that.

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I'm not talking about income equality, the richer and more prosperous a nation is then the higher the gap will become. I am talking about their future and the way they are going about it is the correct way to go, them both being city-states has nothing to do with it and only strengths my argument that if they can do it - why can't we? because we have a mass of regulation hurting growth, high taxes to pay for bloated public spending.

The ID cards, the threat has not gone at all despite what Blue Labour and the Liberal Democrats tell you, afterall it was Michael Howard who published the green paper on suggesting ID cards in the first place a few years ago.

If you want democracy then bring in the Swiss-style referendum styled system.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Well sustained economic growth in all eurozone countries (and high growth in certain countries like Luxembourg) is your answer! Im unsure how you can blame the Euro for the current crisis.

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Sustained growth is good enough is it during a worldwide boom? thats the best we can aim for? it is pitiful. We fact get excited over growth rates of 0.4% or 1.2% is pathetic and the idea that we should pat ourselves on the back for it is ridiculous whilst on the other side of the world you have Chinese people working hard, creating things living in a country which is far from perfect but is at growth rates such as 8% whilst buying all of our business up securing a future monopoly for China.

So no, the Euro hasn't brought about economic success - its failing, the European Central Bank the other day had to buy its own debt just to keep the house of cards up. A complete failure thanks to incompetant governments spending too much and a foolish-politically motivated idea in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuaDezWIFak

Growth and stability? no, the opposite has happened.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Hong Kong does not grow as fast as China or less developed regions, granted, it grows faster than the UK but its ties with those countries (and location) allows for its relatively high growth with them.

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Nonsense, we can easily match this growth - although you are correct in saying that trade with those countries does help, as a recent economical report stated - that the UK needs to turn to the East rather than do what is currently does (and is forced to do) which is trade mainly with the EU.

If I find the report tonight/tommorow I will link you to it.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I'm not talking about income equality, the richer and more prosperous a nation is then the higher the gap will become. I am talking about their future and the way they are going about it is the correct way to go, them both being city-states has nothing to do with it and only strengths my argument that if they can do it - why can't we? because we have a mass of regulation hurting growth, high taxes to pay for bloated public spending.

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Nope that is not true. Simply not true. Sweden, Norway, Iceland, The Netherlands, Austria etc have higher GDP per capita AND lower GINI coefficients. And yes it does have everything to do with, city states are obviously more dense and therefore public services are easier and cheaper to administer, let alone the fact they do not have the responsibility of looking after vast public spaces.

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Sustained growth is good enough is it during a worldwide boom? thats the best we can aim for? it is pitiful. We fact get excited over growth rates of 0.4% or 1.2% is pathetic and the idea that we should pat ourselves on the back for it is ridiculous whilst on the other side of the world you have Chinese people working hard, creating things living in a country which is far from perfect but is at growth rates such as 8% whilst buying all of our business up securing a future monopoly for China.

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Hahaha, that's where you are wrong - it isn't a worldwide boom, if you look at the USA, Canada, the rest of the EU (apart from maybe the east), AUS/NZ, South Korea, Japan you'll see a similar pattern. Slow growth.

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So no, the Euro hasn't brought about economic success - its failing, the European Central Bank the other day had to buy its own debt just to keep the house of cards up. A complete failure thanks to incompetant governments spending too much and a foolish-politically motivated idea in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuaDezWIFak

Growth and stability? no, the opposite has happened.

Nonsense, we can easily match this growth - although you are correct in saying that trade with those countries does help, as a recent economical report stated - that the UK needs to turn to the East rather than do what is currently does (and is forced to do) which is trade mainly with the EU.

If I find the report tonight/tommorow I will link you to it.

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Trade what? We can't compete on much manufacturing, but if you look at exports per capita here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rts_per_capita which of course includes services and goods you'll see that our export rate is much higher than the Chinese but is far lower than many of the richer countries of the European Union. The idea that we are somehow held back by the EU is nonsense. It's problems at the national level!

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Nope that is not true. Simply not true. Sweden, Norway, Iceland, The Netherlands, Austria etc have higher GDP per capita AND lower GINI coefficients. And yes it does have everything to do with, city states are obviously more dense and therefore public services are easier and cheaper to administer, let alone the fact they do not have the responsibility of looking after vast public spaces.

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I'm talking here about economic leaders such as Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand - not Austria, Sweden and so on. As for city states, that is utter nonsense i'm afraid - London is dense, but Switzerland not as dense yet Switzerland is outperforming London and the UK. The bigger the country the more natural resources and a bigger population we have, we can could match these nations/cities in growth - but in one sense you are right, Hong Kong and co. do not have bloated public sectors and thus do not need to spend money on that.

The vast majority of UK tax is spent on welfare payments, not looking after vast public spaces - most public spaces in recent years have simply been sold off in order to fund the bloated public sector and much land is privately owned and maintained. So that is complete nonsense.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Hahaha, that's where you are wrong - it isn't a worldwide boom, if you look at the USA, Canada, the rest of the EU (apart from maybe the east), AUS/NZ, South Korea, Japan you'll see a similar pattern. Slow growth.

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Look at a map of growth rates and you will see the money is shifting eastwards, the western world is bankrupt. There is a worldwide boom (or could be) if government over here got its face out of the people and allowed them to get on with it, provided they cut the public sector right back along with a mass dumping of regulations that are holding us back.

You have a choice, compete with China and co. or don't - its very simple and I know which i'd pick.

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Originally Posted by alexxxxx

Trade what? We can't compete on much manufacturing, but if you look at exports per capita here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rts_per_capita which of course includes services and goods you'll see that our export rate is much higher than the Chinese but is far lower than many of the richer countries of the European Union. The idea that we are somehow held back by the EU is nonsense. It's problems at the national level!

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We can't compete on manufacturing because we have a mass of regulations and taxation which would make it impossible for anyone to be based here successfully and new EU regulations are making it harder for even service based sectors to be located here, hence why they are all fleeing to Switzerland. Japan competes perfectly well with pretty high wages and has a technological base, we need to follow that - if we don't then we'll simply become what China and co. where to us not so long ago, client states.

Its at national level yes, but not helped at EU level with its ridiculous regulations which cost jobs and money. No national government could energise/reform this economy without leaving the European Union. They are already preparing to harmonise taxes, thus losing yet again another competitive advantage - business will simply move to locations such as Switzerland which are free from such rubbish.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I'm talking here about economic leaders such as Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand - not Austria, Sweden and so on. As for city states, that is utter nonsense i'm afraid - London is dense, but Switzerland not as dense yet Switzerland is outperforming London and the UK. The bigger the country the more natural resources and a bigger population we have, we can could match these nations/cities in growth - but in one sense you are right, Hong Kong and co. do not have bloated public sectors and thus do not need to spend money on that.

The vast majority of UK tax is spent on welfare payments, not looking after vast public spaces - most public spaces in recent years have simply been sold off in order to fund the bloated public sector and much land is privately owned and maintained. So that is complete nonsense.

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You call Australia and NZ 'economic leaders.' NZ is in a recession, australia has weak growth.. Why can't I choose to compare other european nations? Because they don't fit in with your warped view of the world. Britain has a problem in that it hasn't a diverse economy. Welfare payments incl health? Face it, it is easier and more efficient for public services to be handed out in cities. Plus large government departments aren't required due to the size of the countries. Smaller Sizes = More Efficient, if you knew anything about economics you'd know that there is an optimum size for any organisation and it's clear that for government departments it's smaller.

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Look at a map of growth rates and you will see the money is shifting eastwards, the western world is bankrupt. There is a worldwide boom (or could be) if government over here got its face out of the people and allowed them to get on with it, provided they cut the public sector right back along with a mass dumping of regulations that are holding us back.

You have a choice, compete with China and co. or don't - its very simple and I know which i'd pick.

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That's because the east has capacity to grow! Low wage rates, low land prices, cheaper natural resources. The 'Western World Is Bankrupt' is a load of rubbish.

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We can't compete on manufacturing because we have a mass of regulations and taxation which would make it impossible for anyone to be based here successfully and new EU regulations are making it harder for even service based sectors to be located here, hence why they are all fleeing to Switzerland. Japan competes perfectly well with pretty high wages and has a technological base, we need to follow that - if we don't then we'll simply become what China and co. where to us not so long ago, client states.

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Does Japan really have good growth? not sure it really does. Japan has had massive economic problems in the last few years. Germany competes pretty well under the 'crippling' EU regulations.

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Its at national level yes, but not helped at EU level with its ridiculous regulations which cost jobs and money. No national government could energise/reform this economy without leaving the European Union. They are already preparing to harmonise taxes, thus losing yet again another competitive advantage - business will simply move to locations such as Switzerland which are free from such rubbish.

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So why is it all the EU's fault when you fail to consider the other nations in the EU (or the vast amount of EU legislation that swiss companies have to accept)? It's national level, failure and poorly managed investments by the government (in my opinion). I'm unsure how the government think that by cutting university funding will somehow improve UK performance in the future.