Anyone going? Huge numbers predicted. I'll be there, setting off soon. Malet Street for me at 11AM, those that are going may know why.
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Anyone going? Huge numbers predicted. I'll be there, setting off soon. Malet Street for me at 11AM, those that are going may know why.
I hope the police kettle those protesters into oblivion, worthless imbeciles have literally no idea about economic or fiscal policy. We're at the absolute limit of what we can do and the Conservatives are bringing us back to sanity.
Watching their "it cuts both ways" video, has a socialist banner in it, stopped watching. Socialists know literally nothing of how to survive in this world, their fairy tale ideas of free money for all and big government simply doesn't work.
I don't get it, is it just a socialist party march?
This pretty much sums up my views.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic Bear
It's pointless and stupid.
They do have ideas, they have different ideas to you, that's sorta the point. All protests are ideological.
Shall we take bets on when the violence starts? :P
well done on the above for being clueless, the majority of the march will be lecturers who will be peacefully marching their views on their paycuts. and there are students there supporting those views.
and of course, there'll be a few ***** who think its a good excuse for anarchy but yaknow, that's how it goes.
hate how right-wing this forum is.
Actually I'd say there are hardly any right-wing members other than me, Dan & Agnostic Bear...certainly in the current affairs forum it seems that the forum is actually very left-wing.Quote:
Originally Posted by bethie
And the thing that gets me is the people marching have no idea of economics or business otherwise they'd realise that the pay cuts are the only way. Bring in Labour and they'll print MORE money, making the £ worthless and sending us into hyperinflation.
Whilst I agree that the decision to try wiping out the debts/deficits that we have is ridiculous and damaging, but the proposed alternatives seem to just be "GET BANKS TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING" from what I've seen. Protests should have solutions not just problems
Only way for what? I'm absolutely right wing (in a pure idealogical sense, not to do with any particular parties) but what the pay cuts are aiming to do is get rid of a debt which we not only don't need to worry about but which will actually cripple us if it DOESN'T existQuote:
Originally Posted by Conservative,
I'm right wing and I don't agree with most of what the conservative party has done so far. I guess that makes me an idiot too.
A lot of right wingers don't, you certainly aren't alone. There are just a few Conservative fanboys who agree with what the tories have done - most people who actually know what they are talking about and have right-wing views don't agree with what's happening. The Conservatives are cutting things like the NHS, Education and other public sector services however then there's announcements like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12852926 - which just absolutely takes the piss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wig44.
I wish all those marching today good luck and I hope it's a peaceful protest, this Government is awful and their cuts are tearing this country apart - they have taken this standpoint of "pay back debt as quickly as possible no matter what the consequences are" - when in reality the repayments need to be much more stable and should be done with less cuts to the people who need it most.
Dont forget me :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Conservative,
This march in westminster is absolutely disgraceful and EVERYONE who is there should hang their heads in shame. This is usual of the left and socialist who think marching will achieve anything.. but it wont. They squark and squirm how "everyone agrees with them" but we do NOT.
The unions died in the 80's and quite frankly need to perish into the pits of oblivion as they serve no purpose what-so-ever except to protest against things that need to be done.
Im a Conservative but I don't agree with everything that David Cameron has said or done...
* He didn't give us an EU refferendum
* No reform on british bill of rights
* Inheritence tax chages scrapped
and these are just a few of the things I disagree with..... infact I'd say cuts need to be over 20% for example across the board and nothing less will do.
As for college or uni lecturers they need to get off their high horse and take a cold hard look at them selves. The only reason they are complaining is because their pensions are being brought into line with what the private sector has had for years and just because they wont get their gold plated pensions or pay rises here and there they strike for nothing but purely greed.
Most people are forgetting who caused this mess and the answer is the LABOUR party... You ask most left wing supporters what the alternative is to the cuts and they cant even come up with an answer which renders their silly little protest USELESS!.
In may you know who to vote for and it certainly isnt labour, lib dems or any other left social party including the greens.
Vote Conservative / UKIP.
What on earth is their alternative?! They couldn't of come up with a more hypocritical and comical name for their march quite frankly.
From what I've seen they're offering two alternatives to the cuts;
1) Spend our way out of debt. Quite obviously this isn't possible, we cannot go on like this and services must be cut back.
2) Tax the banks and bankers. Completely ridiculous idea, the UK is a service economy (80% employed within it, making up 73% of GDP) and we are incredibly reliant on our finance sector. London (along with NY) is the world finance hub and it's our main export. If we begin taxing banks heavily they'll simply move abroad and we get zilch from them then. Without our finance sector, this country would probably be nothing and hardly worth living in.
We had "good times" under Brown as chancellor because he was experiencing the positive effects of the previous Conservative governments attempt to open the UK up to foreign business and making London a world hub. He also borrowed ridiculous amounts of money and increased public sector spending everywhere. We absolutely cannot afford to live like this. Yes it's nice to see enormous investment and spending everywhere but we simply cannot afford it and it was never our money to spend in the first place.
It's essentially like someone earning £20k a year, taking a £1 Million loan from a bank and then refusing to repay it because they've become accustom to living a wealthy lifestyle.
The whole thing is infuriating and nearly impossible to solve. People will try to offer solutions but drastically cutting public spending is the only way, soon enough the cuts will catch up with us and sadly the thing is, once the deficit is cut (Anytime from 2016 onwards), we'll still be in over a lifetime of debt. Pretty grim really, you can thank Gordon Brown's time as Chancellor for this, a man so wonderful he was promoted to Prime Minister and couldn't win an election.
That's not the only way, the Americans got out of the previous recession (Back in the 40s) by printing money and encouraging spending and by getting people jobs. What the conservatives are doing is keeping us barely above the recession line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conservative,
No... Because I know they are doing it for a reason. They aren't doing it to **** us over, they are doing it to help the country get back onto it's feet. I'm sure they'd be pushed out of goverment if there doing it to make our country even worse.. seriously.
And look where america is now???.. its in a much, much, much worse position than the uk in terms of debt. Quite frankly america is a bubble thats about to burst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
You can quite easily say lets go crazy and print all the money we want.. BUT your living in a fantasy world as doing so would de-value the currency.
I think most people accept that government cuts are necessary. There is just a big divide in how the cuts affect people. There is gross overspend and corruption in the MoD, but of course it's political suicide 'to cut back on our hard-working troops' - when the real issue is that they are paying £9 for lightbulbs and other waste.
Then there's the university cuts, putting a quota on international students, generally destructive as there will be poorer research, poorer graduates, worse in the long term.
The Government aren't doing enough to stimulate private investment with their cuts or spending in the private sector.
I agree with the cuts, to a certain extent, they are necessary and they are brutal and (in a sense) the way Thatcher did it. She did what she had to do and public opinion spun out of control, it was only the Falklands war that stopped the Tories from losing control while they brought Britain into the heart of the modern world.
I think they're necessary, but they haven't been controlled as well. For example, the arts budget has been slashed whereas foreign aid has increased in size. A few weeks back we heard of the massive aid we were given to India, essentially a 'British investment', while every other leader went other there to shake hands and create money, we decided to just hand it to them.
@this whole "left wing", "right wing" argument, I am definitely right wing myself. It's sensible individualism at the end of the day and it's shocking hearing my History teachers promote socialism and Obama-lite 'CHANGE'. People are criticising Obama for putting in $1trn worth of cuts because it's not enough, the truth is it's not enough, it's barely a fraction of the debt. It's the same case over here, as Alex said above, the problem isn't with the 'hard working troops' but with the MoD paying for (what amounts to) waste.
I agree with what the cuts stand for and some of the attempts, but not all of them are sensible in my opinion.
I think the MoD is one department where the cuts are appropriate. The actual department itself seems to be the problem with ridiculous salaries, pensions and of course the whole £9 lightbulb thing - These do of course need resolving.Quote:
Originally Posted by alexxxxx
However there has been rather a lot of frontline cuts, for instance many of the RAFs planes and Navy's ships have been scrapped early and we now have no aircraft carriers. In 2018 when two come into service, we'll be sharing one with the French and selling the other off. Aircraft orders also seem to be on hold and minimised whilst Trident has also been put on hold. And of course an awful lot of soldiers have been/will be laid off, many who are on active duty right now.
I'm not saying that their cuts have gone too far but we make very good use of our military, not long back they were stretched on two fronts in Iraq and Afghanistan. They're still in Afghanistan and now there's fumbling around in Libya too. So far the forces seem to be coping okay with the cuts but who knows what will happen in the future. History might be very critical of Cameron for his military cuts. If they went any further I suspect they'd be in a lot of trouble, but if they were any less it would be disproportional with other department cuts.
It worked back in the 40s for the americans, if you recover the economy before serious damage to the currency is done then you'll be in a better position because you'll actually have an economy going rather than being in exactly the same position in five years time like the Conservatives are doing right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Your solution wont work because this situation whilst in essence is similar to previous rescessions its not the same as this was caused by one group of people only and thats Labour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
The pound is already at an all time low against the euro.
The one example if any that we should follow is Canada. They had debt problems like ourselves and cut alot of things including blowing up hospitals because they couldnt afford them. Fast forward a dozen years and Canada is going about its business just fine.
I don't understand why people fail to see a pattern that is very clear and has arised. The pattern being labour spend, then spend some more and continuing spending till there is nothing left. A conservative government is then elected and solves all of our problems and makes the country prosper again. Labour is then elected again and makes the same mistakes of spending everything we have and MORE.. and then we end up with our present conservative / lib dem coalition.
I have no doubts that this pattern will probably happen again but it won't be third time lucky.
So the recessions in other countries ALSO came from Labour?Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
I'd hardly call an all time low over ten years a catastrophe.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Yes because our economy isn't one of those big ones like Canada...Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
You're projecting a pattern that has only occurred once.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
It'll be third time's the charm?Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
I noticed this pattern too. Basically, Labour spend all our money to keep us happy, then get us into debt and happily walk out Number 10. knowing they'll be back in 5-10 years because people won't like the Tory cuts - however the Tory cuts get us back on track, but because of the cuts, people feel hard-done-by so they then re-elect Labour who spend all the money the Tories got back.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
I agree with almost all of this and add my points in bold
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
Wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conservative,
Lloyd George was the Liberal party leader who had to form a coalition with Labour, he himself was not the leader of Labour. They were shoe-horned in as a working class vote netcatcher, I believe that they'll repeat the same mistakes nowadays with the Liberal Democrats being shoe-horned into a coalition.
ITT: People claiming that the Tories are better than Labour when they cut some of the only things they shouldn't cut, like the NHS (unless you sack 90% of the bloated administration which would be good) or Education and then increase Foreign Aid spending, increase EU spending and develop a cop out budget. Most people have it right; labour ideology is just not applicable to a stable country but what the Conservatives have done is go about cutting in possibly the worst way achievable, quite remarkable really. I don't see why people are so fixated on Lib/Lab/Con. Other parties do exist you know.
ITT people who think money comes from the money tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wig44.
I've not really followed the story about the protests but it does seem to be on a massive scale. Stuff like this really angers me. I really do frown upon protests because they really are so pathetic in most cases. It's just silly, petty people who seem to think sitting around (albeit turning into havoc) can get the Government on their side. These people have been under the "buy-what-you-want-worry-about-it-later" procedures that our last Labour Government applied and they can't accept change.
As we've seen with tuition fees (and now this), the Government won't listen to protests, and thank goodness too. These people are wasting their time and it just makes the country look stupid. It's an embarassment.
I think the part in bold actually sums up exactly what this is about except it need to be done for the people not the self serving ideological policies of this government who actually don't seem interested in the majority of this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by jam666
I think you will find that public sector workers have always been paid less that private sector workers. The average pension is about £6,000 a year. Hardly gold plated. What you forget is that any other reform hasQuote:
Im a Conservative but I don't agree with everything that David Cameron has said or done...
* He didn't give us an EU refferendum
* No reform on british bill of rights
* Inheritence tax chages scrapped
and these are just a few of the things I disagree with..... infact I'd say cuts need to be over 20% for example across the board and nothing less will do.
As for college or uni lecturers they need to get off their high horse and take a cold hard look at them selves. The only reason they are complaining is because their pensions are being brought into line with what the private sector has had for years and just because they wont get their gold plated pensions or pay rises here and there they strike for nothing but purely greed.
not been retrospective so this is quite a diversion in policy. They have contributed to their pensions for years and now face them being cut. Also this was not just about the pensions it was about the savage cuts in general. Interesting to know that whilst Osbourne didn't announce it they are cutting pensioner's winter fuel allowance by 25 % despite Cameron promising it would not be done.
Yes Labour caused all the mess - the banking sector and global world crisis and recession had nothing to do with it. I think you will find this is just the beginning and I wonder how you will feel when we start plunging into a double dip recession, huge unemployment, and galloping inflation. This is the only thing the conservative government are successful at. Labourey do have a plan -halving the deficit over 4 years which is backed by nobel prize winners. The RBS Shares are now worth at least X3 than when Labour bailed them out so not a bad investment there.:PQuote:
Most people are forgetting who caused this mess and the answer is the LABOUR party... You ask most left wing supporters what the alternative is to the cuts and they cant even come up with an answer which renders their silly little protest USELESS!.
I think you should enjoy your short time in the sun because it will be short. The local elections in May will show a crushing defeat for both Lib Dems and Conservatives and the road for them started going downhill from the first week.Quote:
In may you know who to vote for and it certainly isnt labour, lib dems or any other left social party including the greens.
Vote Conservative / UKIP.
It's supposed to be a democratic country so they have every right to protest. They won't feel like they're wasting their time because they are standing up for what they believe in and personally I wish people would start doing that more often - whether you agree with cuts or not, whether you agree with fascism or not etc etc
Would it be considered prissy to suggest they're cluttering up the place? :P It's all well and good for this to be a democratic country, but 9 times out of 10 this rubbish leads to violence; which is when problems start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
I just have a mental image of an American chap yesterday, watching pictures of London and thinking "oh what a state." Why don't they learn that protesting isn't going to shift the Governments choice? They were voted in power for a reason, let them do their job.
Okay...lets do this then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
I would much rather they cluttered up the place. I'm sure the vast majority of people at the march today did not expect a miracle and Cameron to go "GUESS WHAT GUYS, NO MORE CUTS" and I'm sure the vast majority of people at the march today are not against cuts completely but where they are but it's a democratic right to protest regardless of what Americans think, regardless of whether the government will change anything and I'd rather they did that than have a country where they were executed for doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
Democracy is not just about voting at the elections, it goes beyond that and that's why people will continue to protest.
Then the whole protesting business seems rather pointless to me. If one half agree with some cuts and the other half don't think they can change anything, then it seems like a lost cause and they're wasting their time.
No one mentioned execution? Yes, they have a right to protest but do they need to use it? No. Someone already said this, but the money that could be saved will have to be spent on clearing up their mess - so it is illogical? I think this sort of protesting is pointless. Yes - they express their unhappiness, but it won't change anything so what's the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
Robbie come back when you actually have some valid knowledge about the matter. Margaret Thatcher ruined this country by her obsessive hatred of the unions which caused them to become even more militant and between them ruined most of the manufacting businesses in this country. Apart from that she devided the country with her policies and encouraged the rise of the 'yuppies' who did nothing for this country's growth at all. All Britain became was based on 'paper' in the financial industries. The whole thing crashed under her too. Have you never heard of 'Black Wednesday' when the country was in a terrible mess and had to go begging to the IMF for money. This was in 1992 when they had been in power for 13 years themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conservative,
The plan is to halve the deficit over 4 years! This obviously will mean cuts but staggered so inflation and umemplyment can be managed.
This is probably the most uniformed comment and ill judged I have ever heard on Habbox Forum almost in line with those who believe the holocaust never happened. I also think you should put the 'spending all our money' in perspective. The UK is still the 6th richest country in the world.Quote:
The only people who will vote Labour (sorry if this offends anyone) are those who live on benefits and are upset because they're getting cut or those too stupid to realise that cuts have to be made otherwise our debt will grow. Labour will no doubt be voted in in 5-10 years time, and then they'll happily spend all our money again, and I gaurantee by 2035, there will be another recession.
I'm not the most political guy in the world so this will probably sound completely ******ed, but do we really need ALL those mps? Do we also really need to be in the EU which we probably spend billions on a year?
Also, I'm pretty sure vodafone or something haven't paid their taxes since they started. Why not just force them to pay or arrest the owner of the company?
I am with you on the EU and there are many, many companies who avoid paying tax and it should be sorted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall!
Mrs Thatcher hated the unions by 1979 just as a fair portion of the country did for one single reason; they were far too powerful and abused that power. My history teacher who is a socialist, is a member of the Socialist Workers Party also admits this one simple fact which had led to unsustainable pay packets being demanded by the unelected unions who had already brought down two elected governments, that of Mr Heath and the other of Mr Callaghan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
The yuppies did do something for our growth so please don't be silly, hence why France and the EU now want to harmonise taxes in order to put out our competative advantage. The yuppies and the corporations aren't that important to our economy though, most people forget that it is small business which drives the United Kingdom and Mrs Thatcher did help small business during her stay in office, with low taxes and cutbacks on regulation.
Sadly her work on costly regulation has now been rolled back, imposed by a body which we cannot vote out of office.
So instead of cutting pay and services, you want to cut EU/foreign aid/quangos - am I right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecktix
Are all the people who are complaining in agreement with me there?
I certainly am.Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
Denying the holocaust and my comments are way different. Please tell me how you judge "richest country"? Because at the moment we have NO money. In fact, we owe £4trillion. We have NO money. Our economy may make money, but the Government owes money - therefore the Government spends money that it does not have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catzsy
As for your first point. Dan said what I was going to say pretty much. Just because I'm younger doesn't mean I don't understand anything. I understand politics and economics.
Oh and btw - you still haven;t outlined what Labour would do - cut? Yes, but cut what? And halve it in 4 years? That means £500billion a year...
Ditto.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic Bear