Managments decessions (Removal of certain staff roles)

Hey,
New people are brought in as management every now and then, I honestly think something needs to be sorted out. I can't count the amount of times something was removed from habbox then implement again at a later date. It's annoying and makes past managements decisions look very contradicting.

Example:
The removal of senior postitions in the helpdesk was removed not too long ago, then weeks after the helpdesk is practically empty. Now that the role has been reintroduced staff have been in there frequently. I know what some of the replys will be "It's nearly the summer, we expect a dramatic change". Surely it can't be a coincidence that a few days ago the room was empty and today there are at least 5 staff members behind the desk. Lets be honest everyone likes a reward, but lets not go back into that, that isn't the point of this thread.

I know it's not my place to say whether or not you should remove certain roles because that has nothing to do with me. Above were just one of the examples of what happens when there is a change in management or when a decision isn't thought through fully. It really does suck, one minute we are told a decision is for the best, then the next minute the decision suddenly changes. This obviously isn't the only time stuff like this happened, it happened with the head dj role as well. Things change, fair enough but can you explain what exactly changed for the roles to be reintroduced?

It's frustrating to see so much contradicting, maybe I'm the only one who can notice it at the moment but seriously I think decisions should be thought through properly with Jin or Sierk every so often before the final go is given. Fair enough they might be busy but it's better that way than new management storming in and changing everything drastically. New management will have different opinions, I don't think Jin or Sierks decision would change.

I'm just being honest, new management shouldn't mean a different approach to the site. I'm happy with the way certain things are and changing them will just make people angry.

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Originally Posted by Richie

Hey,
New people are brought in as management every now and then, I honestly think something needs to be sorted out. I can't count the amount of times something was removed from habbox then implement again at a later date. It's annoying and makes past managements decisions look very contradicting.

Example:
The removal of senior postitions in the helpdesk was removed not too long ago, then weeks after the helpdesk is practically empty. Now that the role has been reintroduced staff have been in there frequently. I know what some of the replys will be "It's nearly the summer, we expect a dramatic change". Surely it can't be a coincidence that a few days ago the room was empty and today there are at least 5 staff members behind the desk. Lets be honest everyone likes a reward, but lets not go back into that, that isn't the point of this thread.

I know it's not my place to say whether or not you should remove certain roles because that has nothing to do with me. Above were just one of the examples of what happens when there is a change in management or when a decision isn't thought through fully. It really does suck, one minute we are told a decision is for the best, then the next minute the decision suddenly changes. This obviously isn't the only time stuff like this happened, it happened with the head dj role as well. Things change, fair enough but can you explain what exactly changed for the roles to be reintroduced?

It's frustrating to see so much contradicting, maybe I'm the only one who can notice it at the moment but seriously I think decisions should be thought through properly with Jin or Sierk every so often before the final go is given. Fair enough they might be busy but it's better that way than new management storming in and changing everything drastically. New management will have different opinions, I don't think Jin or Sierks decision would change.

I'm just being honest, new management shouldn't mean a different approach to the site. I'm happy with the way certain things are and changing them will just make people angry.

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Pretty well everyone involved in that example you used who removed that role is still here and it's not necessarily that new staffmembers are coming and changing things, but the same ones are trying something new to see how it works, then making further changes to it to improve upon it, or simply reverting back to implementations that were more sucessful as is the case with reintroducing the Super Staff role to HxHD.

Especially considering how many years Roxy has been involved with HxHD not to mention the fact that there are HxHD staffmembers (Jordan, Calvin, Mark, Soph to name a few) who have been here for a long time too, I think your example with HxHD isn't quite fair :P

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Originally Posted by HotelUser

Pretty well everyone involved in that example you used who removed that role is still here and it's not necessarily that new staffmembers are coming and changing things, but the same ones are trying something new to see how it works, then making further changes to it to improve upon it, or simply reverting back to implementations that were more sucessful as is the case with reintroducing the Super Staff role to HxHD.

Especially considering how many years Roxy has been involved with HxHD not to mention the fact that there are HxHD staffmembers (Jordan, Calvin, Mark, Soph to name a few) who have been here for a long time too, I think your example with HxHD isn't quite fair :P

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All I want to know is what has changed now that makes the decision any better? Then we can eliminate that as an example. Same with the head dj position?

I disagree. I personally hate how everything has so much discussion and a little less decisive action. If you're going to be so busy talking about doing something, you're not actually going to do it. Obviously, that doesn't mean just rushing into things but there also has to be a balance between discussion and action.

It's also important that if management feel like a mistake has been made then they have the guts to hold their hands up and admit 'we made a mistake, let's change it back.' It's only an online forum run by teenagers so mistakes will be made. :)

You do know there has been a lot of trialists (around 21), hence the desk being a lot busier. I have mixed feelings on the senior role at the moment

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Originally Posted by Richie

All I want to know is what has changed now that makes the decision any better? Then we can eliminate that as an example. Same with the head dj position?

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The original changes were made to make the Help Desk more community oriented amongst other things and were directed towards making the Help Desk a good steppingstone in promoting other departments and Habbox as a whole by having events in the room and such. It sounded nice on paper, however it became too hard to organize such events especially with the minimized staff numbers and the lack of activity in the reduced amount of staff was making our room suffer quite a lot especially compared to other fansite rooms.

HxHD was always the most successful when it had greater numbers in staff and it was clear that was needed again in order to ensure a more active Help Desk in May than April. When it was changed a at first a few months ago it was in the best interest of HxHD and it's being changed now in the best interest of HxHD. Surly you're not suggesting Habbox shouldn't try to improve it's departments!

Let's be honest, sitting behind a help desk in this day in age is no difficult task and it has been said by various people numerous times that if the desk is empty during primetimes then something is simply not right. It's not about quantity either, it's about quality and that is something that is forgotten. Maybe people were lazy then, I don't know as I rarely come on Habbo anymore.

Richie has a point, there has been so much defense in decisions such a global mods, head DJs, same rank HxHD staff etc. I think it's not about fixing things which are not broken, but rather looking at where improvements need to be made. Maybe get staff to do more there and do a larger array of events. I think it may be people not looking in the right places here. Simply because a department does bad, does not mean the need for major hierarchal re-vamps all the time.

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Originally Posted by Grig

Let's be honest, sitting behind a help desk in this day in age is no difficult task and it has been said by various people numerous times that if the desk is empty during primetimes then something is simply not right. It's not about quantity either, it's about quality and that is something that is forgotten. Maybe people were lazy then, I don't know as I rarely come on Habbo anymore.

Richie has a point, there has been so much defense in decisions such a global mods, head DJs, same rank HxHD staff etc. I think it's not about fixing things which are not broken, but rather looking at where improvements need to be made. Maybe get staff to do more there and do a larger array of events. I think it may be people not looking in the right places here. Simply because a department does bad, does not mean the need for major hierarchal re-vamps all the time.

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Retaining to the bold part Grig you absolutely have a fair point (with not messing with things not broken) but in some circumstances major changes do need to take place to ensure the success of in this case HxHD, because (and I'm sure you will agree), when HxHD was starting to decline several months ago drastic changes were necessary, and as those changes didn't work out as anticipated changes again were required and it just so worked out the way it did with the SS role being readded. I honestly don't think it's a terribly big deal. I think it's going to have a positive impact on HxHD and it's not as if changes were ever made when some form of changes were not necessary!

With regards to saying sitting behind a Help Desk isn't a hard task I don't think that's very fair to say. I don't think coding is a hard task and anyone at Habbox could sit down and learn how to very easily if they wanted. It's the fact that staffmembers both like what they're doing and dedicate their time doing it. And you could say that about any job at Habbox and about quite a lot of things in life in general.

Ever heard of the phrase "trial and error" - if you don't try things, you'll never know how they would work.

Let's look at it this way:
Jamesy in October 2010 wanted to try Global Moderators - we let him try it for a month, it doesn't work so it's changed back. No issues there.
HabboxLive in January 2011 we introduced a "Teams" system for Head DJs - this has worked and all HabboxLive DJs are now happy with feedback in comparison to preJanuary 2011 - this did work.
Help Desk Removal of Super staff and putting everyone on an equal level - this was done to improve moderation and the community aspect of Habbox Help Desk, now you're saying this has been gone back on - it hasn't. Habbox Help Desk has not re-introdcued Super Staff. Habbox Help Desk has attempted to go down the old route of employing a lot of staff to ensure that there are always staff in the room - it is impossible for one person to manage 30 staff, therefore the introduction of a new Senior role was needed - the new role has no resemblance to the old super staff role.

It's good to try new things, I'm a big believer in that however it's also good to go back on them if they didn't work completely or to alter them if you see flaws. There is nothing wrong with doing this. The Help Desk is the worst example you could have chosen because the Help Desk has actually improved since changes were introduced (okay it was very quiet during the last few weeks but it wasn't due to there being no super staff it was due to all the staff being away).

If new things weren't tried, you'd always be wondering what would have happened if you tried them, if you don't try you'll never know and trial and error will always find you the right result in the end.

When someone said about the super staff being changed to 'senior staff', they said no point, might as well call them 'super staff' again to follow the HxHD tradition but with different roles. A bit like Head DJs kept their name- we didn't change them to 'DJ Expert' or something like that :p. Just an opinion there :), seeing as it's still a rank above normal!

From my experience at Habbox, the aim was always to strike a balance between discussion and trial. While we didn't want to jump into decisions too quickly (hence our refusal to add forums we considered "fads" and our insistence that a consistent demand was shown for that forum before we added it) but at the same time we couldn't discuss every possibility or predict every outcome.

In the past, Habbox has made the mistake of trying to stick with its decisions and force them to work even when it was clear that the best option would be to abandon the plan. GMs learned from the mistakes of their predecessors very quickly and decided that there was a balance needed between both discussion and a trial period of sorts to see if it works, and lots of major changes were implemented with BETA periods.

I don't know the specifics of this case, so it could be an outlier, but usually things are discussed quite a bit, but (hopefully) not discussed to death.

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Originally Posted by Grig

When someone said about the super staff being changed to 'senior staff', they said no point, might as well call them 'super staff' again to follow the HxHD tradition but with different roles. A bit like Head DJs kept their name- we didn't change them to 'DJ Expert' or something like that :p. Just an opinion there :), seeing as it's still a rank above normal!

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The decision to keep the name different would be to differentiate the role, the Head DJ example you gave still fits the role very well and the roles of the HabboxLive Head DJs did not change massively, there's just more of them with a little more responsibility when it comes to staff.

In theory, these new "Senior" roles in Habbox Help Desk are the former Team Leader role and I think a different name from "Super Staff" was decided in the correct way by Roxy & Martin as Super Staff used to basically mean staff with rights and now the "Senior Role" is "in charge" per se of a group of staff when all staff have rights (bar trialists). I would however support any movement to have the role changed to "Team Leader" although the name is not a major thing.

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

I disagree. I personally hate how everything has so much discussion and a little less decisive action. If you're going to be so busy talking about doing something, you're not actually going to do it. Obviously, that doesn't mean just rushing into things but there also has to be a balance between discussion and action.

It's also important that if management feel like a mistake has been made then they have the guts to hold their hands up and admit 'we made a mistake, let's change it back.' It's only an online forum run by teenagers so mistakes will be made. :)

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lol management admitting they're wrong, as if that's gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by NaughtyNemo

lol management admitting they're wrong, as if that's gonna happen.

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How is a trialling something new a mistake? There is always a possibility that something will not work and because it doesn't for whatever reason does not make it a mistake or poor judgment etc - it just means they are more flexible and will give new ideas a go. Would you guys be posting a thread if it had have worked congratulating them? :P It would be so much worse if they didn't try out new things and just stuck to the old systems because that has always been the way to do it. Nothing in life happens positively without a bit of trial and error.

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Originally Posted by Catz

How is a trialling something new a mistake? There is always a possibility that something will not work and because it doesn't for whatever reason does not make it a mistake or poor judgment etc - it just means they are more flexible and will give new ideas a go. Would you guys be posting a thread if it had have worked congratulating them? :P It would be so much worse if they didn't try out new things and just stuck to the old systems because that has always been the way to do it. Nothing in life happens positively without a bit of trial and error.

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How I see it is, why fix something that isn't broken? It was perfectly fine how it was, perhaps that's just me, In some situations I'm a man (Pause, yes I am a man) who doesn't like to see much change.

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Originally Posted by Catz

How is a trialling something new a mistake? There is always a possibility that something will not work and because it doesn't for whatever reason does not make it a mistake or poor judgment etc - it just means they are more flexible and will give new ideas a go. Would you guys be posting a thread if it had have worked congratulating them? :P It would be so much worse if they didn't try out new things and just stuck to the old systems because that has always been the way to do it. Nothing in life happens positively without a bit of trial and error.

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You say what now? I was just talking more in general in answer to inseriousity

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Originally Posted by Richie

How I see it is, why fix something that isn't broken? It was perfectly fine how it was, perhaps that's just me, In some situations I'm a man (Pause, yes I am a man) who doesn't like to see much change.

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Well you know lessons may have been learned here to a certain extent and without learning lessons one would not progress. I like the way the new initiatives are livening up the place and you know that controversy always breeds more members so it's a win win! :P

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Originally Posted by NaughtyNemo

You say what now? I was just talking more in general in answer to inseriousity

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Yes sorry Niamh, I should have quoted him as well for it to make full sense. :)

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Originally Posted by NaughtyNemo

lol management admitting they're wrong, as if that's gonna happen.

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Pretty sure part of the basis behind this thread is that management did just that :P

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

Pretty sure part of the basis behind this thread is that management did just that :P

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I think management pulls a bit of an apple, removing something because it's 'broken' or 'unneeded' and then reimplementing it with the words 'Revolutionary'.

I've seen some features introduced around Habbox recently that have previously been rejected, you may say that management is getting better at accepting ideas, it isn't something that comes from a six month turnaround, it's just management being inconsistent with ideas and it is coming heavily from the fact that management is changing hands so often. Then you come up with the fantastic idea of having a frequently denied requests thread, what's the point in that if management are going to turn around in six months and implement it saying it's their idea.

Senior role was added and I went into HxHD at like 7am (4pm my time) and there was FOUR staff, this works.

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therefore the introduction of a new Senior role was needed - the new role has no resemblance to the old super staff role.

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What does senior do

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

I think management pulls a bit of an apple, removing something because it's 'broken' or 'unneeded' and then reimplementing it with the words 'Revolutionary'.

I've seen some features introduced around Habbox recently that have previously been rejected, you may say that management is getting better at accepting ideas, it isn't something that comes from a six month turnaround, it's just management being inconsistent with ideas and it is coming heavily from the fact that management is changing hands so often. Then you come up with the fantastic idea of having a frequently denied requests thread, what's the point in that if management are going to turn around in six months and implement it saying it's their idea.

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I'm confused as to what you're saying a little bit, but I *think* you're saying that management disagrees with ideas and then later on decides they're good ideas and implements them?

If that's what you mean, I see the reevaluation of ideas as a good thing, when compared to the alternative of them never implementing them just because they're stubborn about staying with the "no".

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Originally Posted by nvrspk4

If that's what you mean, I see the reevaluation of ideas as a good thing, when compared to the alternative of them never implementing them just because they're stubborn about staying with the "no".

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Yes, but it makes your idea of a frequently suggested ideas thread... pointless. But it's also frustrating that management can't keep the same decision for more than six months.

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

Yes, but it makes your idea of a frequently suggested ideas thread... pointless. But it's also frustrating that management can't keep the same decision for more than six months.

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So you would rather they just kept a system that was not working just so they could be seen as 'consistent'? Personally, I would rather see a system evaluated and then revaluated and then if it doesn't work management having the understanding and flexibility to realise this and change it.

I'm confused by this thread. Since when was it bad for Management to be human? :S People make mistakes and they should fix them. If Habbox removed the Senior Staff positions, and reimplemented them when there was a decline in activity, then surely that's a good thing? It's one of the only times you could consider the management here "human" :P

The last I checked the "frequently asked" ideas thread wasn't being implemented, because there were too many things wrong with it. One of which was the fact that ideas aren't flung back and forth that often for ideas to be considered a hindrence. It was just an idea afterall that came from the idea of the swear filter being an optional feature, and that idea doesn't turn up as often as we would think :P

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Originally Posted by Catz

So you would rather they just kept a system that was not working just so they could be seen as 'consistent'? Personally, I would rather see a system evaluated and then revaluated and then if it doesn't work management having the understanding and flexibility to realise this and change it.

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No, I'm referring to ideas that were rejected six months ago and then management decides one day to pull it out of a hat.

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

No, I'm referring to ideas that were rejected six months ago and then management decides one day to pull it out of a hat.

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By that logic we would get nothing done at Habbox. Not everyone accepts every decision every time one's suggested or made and that includes members of management. I think you would be complaining about a lot more things if in the past an idea was rejected, and the management team were incapable of realizing that rejection was wrong or outdated. I would have said the ability to acknowledge this as such as well as being active enough and committed enough to implement these ideas and try them out were good characteristics of a management team.

Surly you're not suggesting that HxHD be left as it was whilst it was known by management that it was within HxHD's best interest to make additional changes. Also to capture the gist of the idea of this thread it would assume that the management team of Habbox is everlasting and even has a crystal ball to determine what will be successful and what wont be. Sure changes are based on good logic but that doesn't give them a 100 percent rate of success. Often things work, sometimes they don't. If they don't work then they will be changed back, to something else, or more often to the middle ground which is the case with HxHD where although the staff numbers have been increased all staffmembers (non trialists) are allowed rights. HxHD is now in a scenario somewhere inbetween how it used to be originally and how it was after recent changes. It's likely much better structured in the end due to this but would never have gotten to this stage if the community members of management were more like you're saying and refused to look at past decisions, or ideas.

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

No, I'm referring to ideas that were rejected six months ago and then management decides one day to pull it out of a hat.

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It seems like you have a very specific event that's pissing you off...care to share so it can be addressed? Or if its not specific, then some examples?

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

No, I'm referring to ideas that were rejected six months ago and then management decides one day to pull it out of a hat.

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Without giving the member credit you mean?