Minors gambling on the internet

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12-06-2011, 04:29 PM
Richie

Minors gambling on the internet

Hello,
I thought I'd create a discussion, I have been in contacted with companys such as http://www.americangaming.org in regards to habbo and turning a blind eye to illegal activity's such as minors gambling in game. Allowing persons under the age of 21 to bet one another in game or in reality is illegal in the usa.

Huge company's like jagex (runescape) are in cases at the moment regarding the "dicing game". So I don't see what Jagex are doing wrong that Sulake aren't.

One could argue nothing has been brought up in the past, perhaps no-one has reported the company in question. It's virtual furniture, however it's still classed as betting. One uses their credit card to buy gold for their children and then that child uses that gold to bet another, that is just like gambling cash.

Do you think sulake are in the wrong? or is it just a bit of petty fun? Sure enough they don't agree with it, which they have admitted in the past and you do it at your own risk but they're the creators of the game and should be forced to stop it or put a cap on it somehow.

My view on it all is either way it's a law in America that sulake have breached. Allowing a minor to gamble in game is just setting bad examples for children in later life. It could escalate and leave minors with gambling addictions.
12-06-2011, 04:34 PM
-:Undertaker:-

I don't believe the internet should be regulated in the slightest and only used as a tool as opposed to controlling the internet by government. Now as for gambling, this is the responsiblity of the parents of children to decide whether or not they see it fit that their children take part in gambling games online and has nothing to do with the state nor is it the responsiblity of the likes of Jagex or Sulake.
12-06-2011, 04:36 PM
Richie

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I don't believe the internet should be regulated in the slightest and only used as a tool as opposed to controlling the internet by government. Now as for gambling, this is the responsiblity of the parents of children to decide whether or not they see it fit that their children take part in gambling games online and has nothing to do with the state nor is it the responsiblity of the likes of Jagex or Sulake.

Which is a valid point. Do you honestly think children who play habbo ask their parents to buy them habbo coins to bet in game? If that's the case, Sulake should specify what actually goes on in game, other than building rooms.
12-06-2011, 04:38 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie

Which is a valid point. Do you honestly think children who play habbo ask their parents to buy them habbo coins to bet in game? If that's the case, Sulake should specify what actually goes on in game, other than building rooms.

Then that is the responsiblity of ther parents to read the terms and conditions and should they feel they are too vague/not moderated for their liking, then they can withdraw themselves, their children and thus their money from the service Sulake offers.

It's personal responsiblity, we don't need the state or large companies to tell us what is good/not good for us - lets make those decisions ourselves.
12-06-2011, 04:41 PM
Kyle

I lost 90m to dice game :(

I don't see any problem with children gambling on games since it's not like they have remortgaged their houses for the money, it's a few £ here and there.
12-06-2011, 04:44 PM
Richie

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Then that is the responsiblity of ther parents to read the terms and conditions and should they feel they are too vague/not moderated for their liking, then they can withdraw themselves, their children and thus their money from the service Sulake offers.

It's personal responsiblity, we don't need the state or large companies to tell us what is good/not good for us - lets make those decisions ourselves.

No where in the terms and conditions does it say anything about gambling in game and we know that in fact, it is one of the most popular things on habbo.

Either way children are still gambling in game and sulake are aware of it yet they choose to ignore it.

---------- Post added 12-06-2011 at 05:45 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle

I lost 90m to dice game :(

I don't see any problem with children gambling on games since it's not like they have remortgaged their houses for the money, it's a few £ here and there.

That sucks man and obviously gambling in game isn't to that extent but it still is "a few £ here and there" which is illegal :P.
12-06-2011, 04:47 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie

No where in the terms and conditions does it say anything about gambling in game and we know that in fact, it is one of the most popular things on habbo. Either way children are still gambling in game and sulake are aware of it yet they choose to ignore it.

Indeed, so if the terms and conditions are termed too vague by the parents to allow their children to use the service then the parents have that power to either enquire with Sulake or simply not allow their children to use the service in the first place.

Why should Sulake, whose aim it is to make a profit and run a service, be concerned over something that is entirely down to parental guidance/choice?
12-06-2011, 04:51 PM
Richie

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Indeed, so if the terms and conditions are termed too vague by the parents to allow their children to use the service then the parents have that power to either enquire with Sulake or simply not allow their children to use the service in the first place.

Why should Sulake, whose aim it is to make a profit and run a service, be concerned over something that is entirely down to parental guidance/choice?

It isn't entirely. If I had children and I gave them money to go and buy some trainers and they actually spent it in a casino, is that my fault? perhaps but that company that allowed my child to gamble is in breach of an American law which would lead to them being prosecuted.
12-06-2011, 05:08 PM
GommeInc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie

It isn't entirely. If I had children and I gave them money to go and buy some trainers and they actually spent it in a casino, is that my fault? perhaps but that company that allowed my child to gamble is in breach of an American law which would lead to them being prosecuted.

Smack/punch the child for disobeying you. The company isn't at fault, especially when it is just virtual furniture. Parents should have the control to moderate what their children are spending money on either by phone, SMS and card. The casino feature is meant to be enjoyable and isn't a drain on resources, trading a chair for more chairs is a bit laughable, you should only worry when raw cash is involved :P
12-06-2011, 05:12 PM
Richie

Quote:

Originally Posted by GommeInc

Smack/punch the child for disobeying you. The company isn't at fault, especially when it is just virtual furniture. Parents should have the control to moderate what their children are spending money on either by phone, SMS and card. The casino feature is meant to be enjoyable and isn't a drain on resources, trading a chair for more chairs is a bit laughable, you should only worry when raw cash is involved :P

Which is fair enough, I didn't make these laws all I'm saying is sulake is breaching them.
13-06-2011, 12:38 PM
Jordy

If anything it educates children on gambling for later life, you can learn some big lessons on how Casinos work by just losing a bit of furniture so it could be argued it's a good thing.

I've never used casinos too much on Habbo but you get the gist of how it works. Essentially the odds are stacked against you if you go into a casino, and more times than not you will lose. However if you're a dealer the odds are very much in your favour. So don't bother going into casinos as most the time you will lose seeing as they need to generate a profit, but by all means open a casino.
14-06-2011, 02:16 AM
The Don

No harm in a little gambling, I invested £10, ended up with £270, then lost it all. Valuable life lesson learnt right there.
14-06-2011, 02:39 AM
Vinnie:Safety

Holodice & Dicemasters were not intended for this use, therefor that is why Habbo has no problems, and HAbbo staff would have no controll over it anyways, users would figure someway out.

Also Sulake is from Finland so that could be one reason why nothing has happened.
14-06-2011, 05:09 PM
Richie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnie:Safety

Holodice & Dicemasters were not intended for this use, therefor that is why Habbo has no problems, and HAbbo staff would have no controll over it anyways, users would figure someway out.

Also Sulake is from Finland so that could be one reason why nothing has happened.

They are a registered company in america and your argument "Holodice & Dicemasters were not intended for this use" fails, in Singapore gambling is forbidden and sulake were made ban those betting illegally in game. Not sure if they used any other methods but it has been done in the past.
14-06-2011, 05:39 PM
Jordy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie

They are a registered company in america and your argument "Holodice & Dicemasters were not intended for this use" fails, in Singapore gambling is forbidden and sulake were made ban those betting illegally in game. Not sure if they used any other methods but it has been done in the past.

Yeah essentially Casinos were considered unacceptable to hotel management. I do wonder how this is enforced on the .COM hotel seeing as they must be registered in Singapore as half the moderators are allegedly from there.
14-06-2011, 05:43 PM
Richie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordy

Yeah essentially Casinos were considered unacceptable to hotel management. I do wonder how this is enforced on the .COM hotel seeing as they must be registered in Singapore as half the moderators are allegedly from there.

Only time will tell, I have contacted agencys in the Uk, Ireland and the USA. Awaiting reply, I will keep ya'll up to date!
14-06-2011, 06:52 PM
GommeInc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie

Only time will tell, I have contacted agencys in the Uk, Ireland and the USA. Awaiting reply, I will keep ya'll up to date!

You're putting quite a lot of effort into this :P I don't think Sulake expected it to have such wide spread use and was only really there for fun. Interesting as I do see your points, it is a bit dodgy as some children are putting money into what is gambling.