The historic Coldstream Guards are under threat

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25-07-2011, 12:52 AM
-:Undertaker:-

The historic Coldstream Guards are under threat

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...360-years.html
http://www.theconservativeblog.co.uk/uk-politics/coldstream-guards-face-axe
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/260752

Marching into history? The Coldstream Guards 'facing the axe' under defence cuts after 360 years

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...19_468x286.jpg

Proud:The Coldstream Guards in their famous bearskin hats are a big attraction for tourists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mail

The British Army's oldest regiment is facing the axe under major defence cuts, it was claimed today. The Coldstream Guards - loved by tourists for their red tunics and bearskin hats - are the No1 target for the top brass. Soldiers of the 360-year-old regiment are expected to be sacrificed as part of the Ministry of Defence's plans to reduce the Army from 101,000 to 80,000 troops.

The Irish, Scottish and Welsh guards have been saved for reasons of 'regional sensitivity' and the Grenardier Guards are more famous than their Coldstream counterparts. The move is said to have been reluctantly agreed by the Queen, who is the regiment's colonel-in-chief, according to the Sunday Express. A senior army source told the paper that the royal household 'wants to be seen to be doing its part' to share the defence cuts. But the decision has been branded an act of 'unconscionable vandalism' by one brigadier and came under fire from a Tory MP.

Coldstream Guards, motto Second To None, have served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and returned from the frontline in April last year. Millions of tourists watch them Trooping the Colour, marching on Remembrance Sunday and providing a guard for the Queen's Birthday Parade and the State Opening of Parliament. Brigadier Allan Mallinson told the paper: 'It was by the epic march of the Coldstreamers from Tweed to Thames in the winter of 1660 that Charles II was restored to the the throne and the British Army was founded. 'It would be an act of unconscionable vandalism to disband the Second regiment of Footguards.'

MP Patrick Mercer said he was 'appalled' at the threat to the historic regiment whose former members include actor Edward Fox. A MoD spokesman said: 'The impact of the additional manpower reductions identified in the recent work has yet to be scoped. 'Planning is underway and it would be wrong to speculate at this stage.'

This is the kind of thing that would only happen if a foreign army invaded and occupied this country. But no worries, i'm sure the small savings made from this (despite the guard not even being abolished throughout far worse economic situations) will go far in paying for our increased EU contributions, increases in foreign aid and general government waste in general.

Wish you had a conservative government yet? vote for one then.

Thoughts?
26-07-2011, 08:32 PM
Slowpoke

I imagine it'll save quite a hefty amount of money and for me, it's no real loss. I guess you could argue it's been tradition for 360 years and therefore - like a listed building - would be wrong to get rid of but it's not something that I'd get upset about or anything
26-07-2011, 09:10 PM
Technologic

I'm sure they can get some other soldiers to wear the uniforms.
26-07-2011, 09:12 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technologic

I'm sure they can get some other soldiers to wear the uniforms.

You never seem to have that attitude to other stories (immigrants on benefits, EU waste) yet strangely have that attitude towards your own culture.

I find it puzzling.
26-07-2011, 09:18 PM
Technologic

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

You never seem to have that attitude to other stories (immigrants on benefits, EU waste) yet strangely have that attitude towards your own culture.

I find it puzzling.

Cuts need to be made
26-07-2011, 09:19 PM
dbgtz

21k is fine to me to be quite honest, it's not like they're being gone but to be honest better cuts could be made elsewhere.
26-07-2011, 10:04 PM
Oleh

Lets raise VAT to 25%, raise tax on earnings over 15k to 75% and abolish the armed forces completley. Just so we can send even more money to the EU...

This is so pointless, its about as pointless as flavored cellotape. This as said, is a piece of british history and therfore shouldn't even be on the shortlist of cuts.
26-07-2011, 10:31 PM
Technologic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oleh

Lets raise VAT to 25%, raise tax on earnings over 15k to 75% and abolish the armed forces completley. Just so we can send even more money to the EU...

This is so pointless, its about as pointless as flavored cellotape. This as said, is a piece of british history and therfore shouldn't even be on the shortlist of cuts.

Id much rather they cut the army than further cuts to the NHS and elderly care.
27-07-2011, 10:19 AM
-:Undertaker:-

double post.
27-07-2011, 10:20 AM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technologic

Cuts need to be made

Indeed they do, i've been saying it for many years now (even before 2008 when the Conservative Party supported Labours spending plans). However if you look at the figures for spending over the next few years, spending is only going to increase and thus so will our debt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technologic

Id much rather they cut the army than further cuts to the NHS and elderly care.

If the bloated NHS requires more money (which it does for the likes of cancer suffers who are refused life saving/extending drugs over the rights of transexuals) then i'm sure that it can start by cutting the salaries and jobs of the layers of bureaucrats its hired. More funding for elderly care? easy, leave the European Union/IMF, stop funding bailouts and close down the Foreign Aid department.

We have a choice here now, we can do the things i've suggested (cut things we do not need) or we can cut the things we do need in order to pay for those which we do not, what do you think? which suggestion has more merit, my one or the other?
27-07-2011, 01:56 PM
Technologic

You may be surprised to find the NHS requires managers, doctors don't train as managers.
28-07-2011, 08:26 AM
Casio

I live on 'Coldstream Road' I have a plaque on my house stating what was there before my house was built.
28-07-2011, 11:28 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technologic

You may be surprised to find the NHS requires managers, doctors don't train as managers.

Certainly not the scale and scope of managers that the NHS has, but then like all government operations - its bloated, expensive and wasteful.
29-07-2011, 11:26 AM
Technologic

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Certainly not the scale and scope of managers that the NHS has, but then like all government operations - its bloated, expensive and wasteful.

If you start handing management to the doctors then quality of care will decrease as there is less time for doctor-patient contact.
06-08-2011, 11:46 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technologic

If you start handing management to the doctors then quality of care will decrease as there is less time for doctor-patient contact.

Sorry thats nonsense, private healthcare is much better yet does not require that number of managers, a quick search on Google quickly shows NHS waste. http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=number+of+nhs +managers+double&pbx=1&oq=number+of+nhs+managers+d ouble&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=308l3593l0l371 7l29l18l0l7l7l0l288l2738l0.6.8l14l0&bav=on.2,or.r_ gc.r_pw.&fp=25febd5dbd16376a&biw=1280&bih=882
07-08-2011, 12:03 AM
GommeInc

The NHS is a bit too bureaucratic, the number of managers is just a waste on resources. Undertaker's suggestion is to cut the number of pointless managers to a sustainable number, not abolish them completely which you seem to be hinting towards (Doctors training as managers etc.)

Not sure what to think of this. The Guard is just a name, the people who make it come and go. If they want to make cuts, keep the name but lower the number of military units in the UK to an easy to control number. That way the Guard can be used when they are needed. Are you sure this is not what they are proposing? I'm fairly certain they won't get rid of the name, only the number of people serving under it :P
08-08-2011, 02:33 AM
Wig44.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GommeInc

The NHS is a bit too bureaucratic, the number of managers is just a waste on resources. Undertaker's suggestion is to cut the number of pointless managers to a sustainable number, not abolish them completely which you seem to be hinting towards (Doctors training as managers etc.)

Not sure what to think of this. The Guard is just a name, the people who make it come and go. If they want to make cuts, keep the name but lower the number of military units in the UK to an easy to control number. That way the Guard can be used when they are needed. Are you sure this is not what they are proposing? I'm fairly certain they won't get rid of the name, only the number of people serving under it :P

As with most cuts this 'conservative' (ahem) government are dishing out, they are cutting something not worth the tiny return.
08-08-2011, 02:40 AM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wig44.

As with most cuts this 'conservative' (ahem) government are dishing out, they are cutting something not worth the tiny return.

Government spending overall is increasing, not being cut.
08-08-2011, 02:42 AM
Wig44.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Government spending overall is increasing, not being cut.

I know. All I said was: <last post>
08-08-2011, 04:52 AM
beth

would rather they found cuts elsewhere (here's one: try axing the new terrible e-petitions website). think they're iconic of britain, and though i am all for the adaptation of culture and the changing face of 'britishness', it would be nice to keep some of the old stuff.