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Don't really know much about it but apparently they shot a father of four in Tottenham. Set several police cars, shops and a double decker bus on fire so far and a member of the BBC camera crew has been hurt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14434318
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16045049
Live on BBC and Sky News right now.
Thread opened by Infectious (Forum Super Moderator): Please keep all discussion on topic to prevent further closure.
Police shot mark duggan - I think thats his name - on Thursday and apparently this is peoples reaction to it.
No suprises here then considering the area - I sense the Police won't do a crackdown to not 'inflame tensions' whereas usually they would, and should. There's a strange belief it seems in Tottenham that the Police are racist towards black people, and therefore that justifies smashing up private property in the local area. Don't just take my word for it, here's a little history; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwater_Farm_riot
We'll have to wait and see if its race related, but I very much suspect it is so - another symptom of when people think of 'us vs them' or 'my race'.
As far as I am aware this is nothing to do with race. Just because the person that was shot, was from a diffrent race its far beyond why the riots occured. The riots occured due to the fact that they think the shotting was unjust and not because they shot a person with a diffrent race.
As far as im concerned if this had happend in a "non cultural area" and a it wasent an ethnic person that was shot. It would have been the same situation. These are people standing up for justice and not for race.
I dont know what happend so I cant comment on if the riots are just or not, but I do know this has very little to do with race. So to save time on pointless arguments please post about the story and not about the race.
So because one person was shot by the police, they think it is 'fair' and 'justice!!' to attack and injure several innocent police officers? What kind of logic is that?
Bunch of ******* idiots.
so its fair to shoot an innocent man???Quote:
Originally Posted by Wig44.
-------
North London is practically destroyed. Enfield, Holloway(where i live) Edmonton (Where my counsins live), Wood Green, Angel, Camden etc etc... It's disgusting. I don't see why they didn't just burn tottenham police station but now they are taking the piss... all they are doing is breaking into shops & stealing clothes/phones & Money. (I know because people i know went)
At what point did known gangsters who open fire on police become innocent men?
did he do it though? NO. They know themselves that the bullet lodged in a officers radio was from another officers gun. It was even confirmed on sky news this afternoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJesus
Doesn't mean they should start riots and cause damage to businesses, cars, homes and buses does it? NO. (I haven't read about the bullet being from another office instead but even so)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamar94
don't remember saying it was...Quote:
Originally Posted by xxMATTGxx
Police issue bullet does not 100% mean that it was another officer - where do you think a lot of gang guns come from? And regardless of that, the shooting of one man who was about to be arrested anyway does not in any way allow for the damages caused, which have absolutely nothing to do with Mark Duggan and are merely opportunist attacks and lootings from bored poor people
Maybe not but it just seemd you was going to hint towards that due to the whole "At what point did known gangsters who open fire on police become innocent men?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamar94
But he isn't innocent though is he due to the illegal firearms as well.
so why didn't they arrest him the same way they have arrested 50+ people over the last two days?Quote:
Originally Posted by xxMATTGxx
Prob because he shot at them
Last time I checked when someone has a gun and has most likely shot at the police, the police don't take a friendly approach back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamar94
A gangster is dead? Oh boo hoo.
if he shot @ them 1st then yeah ok... but so far the news & investigators say he didn't.
How do they know one of the rioters aren't armed?
though i disagree with taking any kind of pleasure in anybody's death, this "innocent man" was clearly not innocent. what kind of 'innocent' person has the trident operation squad sent to arrest them. you just don't. these riots have now turned into a freeforall for people who just wanna get free goods and cause a scene. it's a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misawa
london is burning
Enoch Powell's prophecy is being proved correct - it's spreading to Enfield and Brixton now.
This is the result from years of uncontrolled immigration coupled with policies which only make problems worse, the idea that black people and minorities in general belong solely in those groups. We've already had the local councillors and self-appointed 'Community Leaders' commenting on how the Police need to 'engage and support the local community' - why is this? nobody else appears to have this need of Police pandering to them, why is it that these self-appointed people, usually from ethnic areas, feel the need to have the Police pander? The Police are supposed to do a job, fight crime, without having to bow to political correctness and meet with self-appointed 'Community Leaders' everytime an issue of crime flares up in the area.
The fact is that multi-culturalism is a failure but don't confuse this with multi-racialism. Multi-culturalism is the idea that differing cultures can exist side by side despite the fact that each culture has a differing view to authority, a different legal system and so forth. In areas like Tottenham, Enfield, Brixton and across London we've allowed different cultures (which includes and grows black gun culture) to fester and not be eliminated by a pan-British culture and this only makes tensions worse.
On the poverty and jobs argument that I keep hearing, that these people are desperate poor people. Sorry, but we have a welfare system in this country which means you have no obligation to work should you not wish to and that you can live a fairly comfortable life on the teet of the state without having to lift a finger. Now I may disagree with this, but thats a fact and thus eliminates the excuses for the need to loot, burn and destroy. If you look at scenes from the shops being looted, these people clearly have no intention of having an education or wanting a job to better themselves - they are mindless thugs. I heard top clown, Labours' Mayoral marxoid candidate Ken Livingstone blaming the looting and so forth on the governments supposed scrapping of EMA, I don't even need to go into that lunacy.
The Police aren't exactly impressing me either, allowing buildings to burn and standing back while shops are looted in order to 'not inflame tensions' - sorry, but if the law is being broken then the Police should immediately go in, batons at the ready and grab those throwing things rather than standing behind shields. But this is another result of when you have a Police force run on political correctness.
^ While you make a semi-valid points its irrelivant? This situation has nothing to do with race as I said if it had happend anywhere else protests would of still occured. Far enough they have gotten completley out of hand and thats where your point is valid on multi-culturalism and the break down between police and the communitys. However thats not the point at hand here.
Again this was first ment to be people standing up to the fact that the shooting may have been unjust. Now I dont see why people are sayin he was not innocent, obviously he was not innocent he had a gun, but the point is there's a certain procedure that needs to be followed. If he did not shoot anyone then why was he shoot?. I can't judge the guy because I dont know him and him having a firearm does not give a good impression but if he did not shoot anyone then all of this would have been avoided by simply arresting him and charging him.
The riots have gotten out of control and what was ment to be a protest has now turned into a roit which is a shame because it only causes more problems for evryone. The clean up is going to cost alot of tax payers money. Its a shame though that today in society the only way to really get headline news is to infact do things like this. If it had been a peacfull roit sure it would of gotten in the news somewhere, but it would of not made front page news and thats the problem, thats the same thing that occured with the students protest. They did not focus on the thousand of students that turned up and had a peacfull protest but the focused on the minority who made it violent.
If it has nothing to do with culture (again, not race) then why are the areas in which trouble is breaking out in, black/ethnic areas which have managed to retain/grow a different culture as opposed to pan-Britishness? I have heard time and time again on the news that there are tensions between 'the community' and the Police - that there is 'nothing for the youths to do'. An effort is being made here to make out that the Police are racist and are picking on black people for no apparent reason, of course we know this to be rubbish but this can be seen especially with the BBC which wants to make us all believe that the people causing this damage are really just being overcome by a disease called 'crime' when we know such a disease does not exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by [Jay]
As for your claim on the man who was shot, I very much doubt this would kick off in areas not similar to these - clearly the gangsters in the area, with their numerous contacts and friends are upset at the action made against the armed Mr. Duggan by the Police. Again, this is the reaction we get when we encourage people to see one another as 'black community' and so forth.
The ghettoisation of our towns and cities which turns people into seperate groups is a direct result of uncontrolled, mass immigration. The second part, the failure of integration, is a direct result of the scale of immigration to hit us along with political correctness which I touched on above. The product of this political correctness can be seen directly in coverage of the event slamming the Police for 'not supporting the community' - absolute tosh of course but thats the kind of rubbish you get when you allow political correctness to fester all around us.
I doubt the riots have anything to do with immigration/multiculturalism. It's to do with teenagers in a gang subculture who'd like to find any reason to cause a bit of mayhem and have some fun even if that means a lot of headache for other people. And this sort of attitude is in all gang subcultures, both black and white.
Really? then why are self-appointed 'community leaders' having a go at the Police for not 'engaging with the community' (whatever that means)? why is it that only areas effected by mass immigration and ghettoisation (which includes whites also, again this is cultural) having violence flare up? I linked earlier to the same event that happened in Tottenham in the 1980s.. strange how it flares up in only these areas, Toxteth in Liverpool being another example with the Toxteth riots. We didn't have this reaction when Brazillian-born Jean Charles de Menezes was shot who lived in more or less the same area. A consquence of multi-culturalism *not multi-racialism*, we're reaping what our politicians have sown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
The idea of Police vs blacks or whatever it may be is ridiculous nonsense used to justify the actions they've taken, however it must be noted that the offical policy of government of promoting multi-culturalism coupled with uncontrolled immigration only serves to encourage this viewpoint.
cause the areas effected by mass immigration are also the areas with the most poverty and therefore the most crime and therefore the police's target zones when looking for criminals, especially of the ASBO-teenage type but not just limited to such. At the end of the day, police are human too. If their 25 years of experience has taught them that a robbery could be linked to someone within a neighbourhood, of course that's going to be the first place they'll look. However, this just gives rise to the 'police vs blacks' as you put it. You seem to have a habit of saying that these reasons (especially if they're sociological, which I know you despise) justify their actions. It doesn't justify their actions at all. It's a (possible) explanation, not an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
Quite the opposite, i've said crime isn't a disease - something sociology thinks is. The people involved in this should be punished severely [they won't though] as they are knowingly and purposely doing damage and harm.. however as you say, the multi-culturalism part is an explanation behind the mindsets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
Half the rioters probs don't even know why they're doing it, just joining in for the "fun" setting fire/causing damage to INNOCENT (yeah that's innocent, not the person who got shot I don't get how the hell you can class him as the innocent one Lamar) peoples property.
Cause and effect in action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Inseriousity.
I think it has become pretty obvious that multi-culturalism is a myth that will never truly exist. I disagree with undertaker, I do think one of the issues here is race, because in a lot of areas your race will define your culture (note: not all) and cultures don't mix, even though races do. The problem is the lack of integration into British culture (as has been stated) and there are people who believe that immigrants should not adopt our culture; as long as these people exist we will never have complete social integration of the races. The issue here is not people from different cultures learning about and cherishing their cultural heritage, it is the active eschewing of British culture, which leads to pockets of seperate cultures (and usually races) that cannot coincide. When you have this situation, which we do - there is no denying it - you are asking for riots and segregation by culture. If we aren't united by culture we are divided by it; this is human nature. We have mostly moved past division by race but I have a feeling this won't happen with culture.
As has been stated by undertaker, the root cause of this is the uncontrolled immigration which lead to poor integration.
Isnt just there now, its all over London theres been riots theres riots going on in Hackney atm, my phones me going off for ages asking me to go and join in, dont think so :)
But yeah the man got shot for a reason, carry a gun get shot its the only way, these riots have nothing to do with the man being shot.
at first i was in full support of the police's action, now i think they need to step it up a bit. if the looting/rioting continues it will spread countrywide. many many people will go in for a freebie.
Contains Swearing
Perfect for the moment ^^ but yeah Police need to step it up, theres like 150+ people at the bottom of a road near me atm, ready to riot in hackney LOL
if it was a white person you wouldn't be saying thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Lamar94
FACT
:dance:
Exactly. I cannot believe that they have the nerve to stand there and tell us that they're doing all this because they hate policing and the UKs policing tactics. To anyone with any common sense at all - it's quite evident the majority of people being affected and therefore suffering from all this crap are the innocent members of the general public. As you said Tom, this is just a load of bored scallies using the mans tragic death as a reason to riot which is obviously their idea of fun. What a repulsive, disgusting minority they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJesus
My two cents
to think the people taking part in these riots and stuff still have lives to grow into, wonder how many of them want to be policemen? if these are the people who are going to be running our country, the shops and everything inside it within the next few years then FML!
I just went out to the shop and there all locked up, and theres like untold people making phone calls to get people to come to hackney.
Also the army and been flying helicopters over to Hackney Marshs.
no its not a fact, because I'm not a racist & I have white in my family so get to know me & facts before you say dumb **** like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen!
This is nothing about the man who got shot, nothing about white or black people, there all joint together, pretty funny how this makes gangs stop fighting eachother and move the hate onto police.
i've been following certain guardian journalists today and there's been really interesting updates about bbm and invitations to loot been sent through blackberry messenger. it's the medium being used to organise the trouble, which i find really interesting. there's now rumours of trouble in birmingham (my hometown, sobs.) tonight. again the bbm invitations are being sent round.
Those poor, disenfranchised victims of society with their Blackberry mobiles...
i did say in earlier posts that they where taking the piss & pointlessly looting but apparently I have taken sides on a black person that i dnt even know irl & i swear he was mixed raced...