Can the Conservatives possibly win the next election?

Is the Conservative and Unionist Party dead?

http://anmblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8...1c49970b-320wi
Will David Cameron be the last Conservative Party Prime Minister?

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Originally Posted by Peter Hitchens, The 80 Patriots

Why are the 80 Euro-rebels still in the Useless Tory Party? They know that they were right, and David Cameron (pictured) was wrong. They also know that if they stay under his command he will carry on treating them like insects.

Some will be threatened. Some will find their seats have vanished thanks to Mr Cameron’s creepy reform plan. As long as they submit to him, they have no future. They will achieve nothing worth having for themselves, or for those who voted for them. The things they believe in will still be scorned by the cold, ruthless liberal clique that runs the Tory Party. Britain will stay trapped in the burning building that is the European Union, gaining nothing and losing independence, liberty and prosperity.

But look at what happens to the mere 57 Liberal Democrat MPs who voted for the EU on Monday. They are much loved by Mr Cameron and his circle. They need only to whisper a desire and it is granted – the latest being the ghastly plan to make us all live on Berlin Time. Unlike the principled Tory rebels, these Liberal Democrat MPs stand for very little. They are mostly in Parliament because of what they are not, and what they don’t think or don’t say, rather than because of who they are or what they believe in.

If 57 soppy anti-British, pro-crime, anti-education, pro-immigration, anti-family nonentities can push David Cameron around with the constant unspoken threat of walking out of the Coalition, think what 80 pro-British, anti-crime, anti-immigration, pro-education MPs could do to him by actually walking out of it. He would then have to face a proper opposition – after all, David Davis disagrees with Mr Cameron much more than Ed Miliband does, and about far more subjects.

But to have any impact, the 80 must quit the Tory Party, which last week finally and irrevocably turned its back on its voters. As long as they stay inside it they are powerless serfs. Worse, they are a human shield protecting Mr Cameron from the emergence of a proper patriotic movement. Following the example of the ‘Gang of Four’, who nearly 30 years ago came within an inch of destroying and replacing the Labour Party, they should declare independence. From then on, if Mr Cameron wants their support, he will have to ask for it nicely, rather than by threatening, insulting and bullying them. And such a grouping would at last provide a real alternative to the three near-identical BBC-approved parties that nowadays compete for our votes.

My guess is that such a breakaway would do well at any by-election in an existing Tory seat, and by 2015 would be at least halfway to replacing the sordid and treacherous official Unconservative Party. Then we might have something to hope for.

What is there to lose? Its potential leaders know who they are, and how to act. Now is the time to do so.

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Is the Conservative and Unionist Party dead? with the latest polls not looking good for a relatively new government, do you think there is any chance that the Conservative Party will ever win another election? even with the press backing the Tory Party and having a grudge against Ed Miliband, not because of policy (because its exactly the same as that of David Cameron), but because they've made a deal with the Tory Party.

The Party failed to win an election against a tired and unpopular government which had been in office for three terms back in 2010, despite having the media classes on board and its membership continues to slide;

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Originally Posted by The Independent

The total membership in more than 200 constituency associations – barely a third of the overall number – who provided relevant figures to the elections watchdog fell from 185,000 to 145,000 between December 2005 and December 2008. The constituencies experiencing falls include "safe" seats, the bases of shadow Cabinet members and target seats that must be taken if the Tories are to win the next general election.

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Latest YouGov opinion poll;

Labour Party 39%
Conservative Party 36%
Liberal Democrats 8%
UK Independence Party (UKIP) 7%
Others 9%

PROJECTED RESULT = 32-seat majority for Labour

Is the Conservative Party dead? can it win the next election under any circumstances? what would replace it?

Who in your opinion will win the next election?

Yes, they possibly can.

I think Labour.

It is just a repeat of the 1980s - high inflation and even higher unemployment. His measures simply will not work.
He is most definitely syle over substance. Obstinate in one way but with very little backbone. I do believe if he had shown some courage and gone with the EU referendum he would probably be higher in the polls and the longer the coalition carries on the more the back benchers will revolt.

Labour will get in again, I reckon.

I will never vote Lib Dems ever again. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Marketing

Labour will get in again, I reckon.

I will never vote Lib Dems ever again. Ever.

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I really think they have made the worst mistake ever in their history to join the Tories and that is what Nick Clegg will be after the next election - history!

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I really think they have made the worst mistake ever in their history to join the Tories and that is what Nick Clegg will be after the next election - history!

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Whilst it was probably a pretty bone-headed decision for any long term plans, anyone would have done the same in that situation. Let's be honest, the Lib Dems would never have made any influence in parliament if they were carrying on doing the same old, same old. Forming a coalition meant they'd be partners in crime, getting their preaching picked up by the media and giving Nick Clegg an increased pay package. They really need to hold on as long as they can this time around, because the opportunity simply won't arise again in the near future. That's why the coalition won't crumble.

I highly doubt the Tories can win the next election. The general public fail to understand why change happens. Cuts to their pension is seen as "the governments fault" and sadly, they don't know any better than to vote Labour or Conservative. Lesser known parties such as UKIP are simply unheard of, when they are probably the ones with the balls to make some change. Labour will win the next election yielding no changes other than an increases debt, and Tories will be expected to pick up the mess yet again. Such a shame.

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Originally Posted by Mathew

Whilst it was probably a pretty bone-headed decision for any long term plans, anyone would have done the same in that situation. Let's be honest, the Lib Dems would never have made any influence in parliament if they were carrying on doing the same old, same old. Forming a coalition meant they'd be partners in crime, getting their preaching picked up by the media and giving Nick Clegg an increased pay package. They really need to hold on as long as they can this time around, because the opportunity simply won't arise again in the near future. That's why the coalition won't crumble.

I highly doubt the Tories can win the next election. The general public fail to understand why change happens. Cuts to their pension is seen as "the governments fault" and sadly, they don't know any better than to vote Labour or Conservative. Lesser known parties such as UKIP are simply unheard of, when they are probably the ones with the balls to make some change. Labour will win the next election yielding no changes other than an increases debt, and Tories will be expected to pick up the mess yet again. Such a shame.

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I agree in part about what you say about the lib dems but that is not how the majority of the public is going to see it. :) Also I predict that the debt is going to be a lot worse with the tories plans. The tories cannot keep making this excuse either they have been in for 18 months. Labour - low inflation, growth - can you say that the people of this country are not moaning daily about the cost of food etc etc. They are now blaming the EU crisis LOL. Seriously one day some of them will admit that the global banking crisis of 2008 did hit the world hard and stop blaming Labour for it all.

God I bloody well hope not.

I dislike all three of the major parties, and unfortunately I can see it going in favour of Labour who will start cycle all over again. I'd rather see UKIP or another party win the election. The Conservatives are not the Conservatives, and New Labour are nothing like Old Labour. Unfortunately voters are stupid and never know what they are voting for, and will go with what makes them comfortable requiring no thought. If I had to choose out of the three main parties, I'd choose the Conservatives because I really cannot stand Labour.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

I dislike all three of the major parties, and unfortunately I can see it going in favour of Labour who will start cycle all over again. I'd rather see UKIP or another party win the election. The Conservatives are not the Conservatives, and New Labour are nothing like Old Labour. Unfortunately voters are stupid and never know what they are voting for, and will go with what makes them comfortable requiring no thought. If I had to choose out of the three main parties, I'd choose the Conservatives because I really cannot stand Labour.

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Can't stand UKIP, hate them. Probably due to Dan though to be fair, the constant banging on etc lol

I certainly think they can win

Even with the polls, no matter who had won at the previous election, the government will have been unpopular at the moment due to the past actions of Labour and current issues within the EU

Personally I think that given time, the Tories will come around to show their true conservative nature and will start implementing some proper Tory policies. Just give them a while longer :)

I do agree through, the Lib Dems are history. I personally voted for them in the last election because their pledges and policies seemed genuinely good. However, since being in coalition all of their pledges have been completely broken - nobody will trust Clegg ever again.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I agree in part about what you say about the lib dems but that is not how the majority of the public is going to see it. :) Also I predict that the debt is going to be a lot worse with the tories plans. The tories cannot keep making this excuse either they have been in for 18 months. Labour - low inflation, growth - can you say that the people of this country are not moaning daily about the cost of food etc etc. They are now blaming the EU crisis LOL. Seriously one day some of them will admit that the global banking crisis of 2008 did hit the world hard and stop blaming Labour for it all.

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The cause of the global banking crisis was due to the Austrian Business Cycle, caused by central banks such as the Federal Reserve and Bank of England - both Labour and the Conservatives are guilty of supporting this fiat currency which creates a credit boom resulting in the end result, a bust. Had the Conservatives of been in (they supported Labour's moronic spending plans until 2008) we would have had the recession resulting from the ABC (above) and we would have had the same debt levels.

So your right in one sense, the Tories have just as much blood on their hands too.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by .Tom.

Personally I think that given time, the Tories will come around to show their true conservative nature and will start implementing some proper Tory policies. Just give them a while longer

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But David Cameron has already shown he has no intention of doing this, look at the other night when he showed (with a three line whip) that he has more in common with Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg concerning our independence and sovereignty than he does his own backbenchers.

The time is over for the Conservative Party, lets kill this dreadful party off once and for all at the next election.

will be voting the same as i did last time (labour) unless some new party that seems to 'get me' appears. i'm not fully in support of labour anymore, not in the way i was before, either. but they're the party still closest to my beliefs. can't stand ed, and i hope he goes before the next election because i reckon he could lose it for us.

would never, have never, will never vote conservative.

Tories won't get in, I think their reputation has been damaged slightly from hooking up with the Lib Dems, something which the very right-wingers of the party think is a disaster (as do most of the country) and they're sitting on the fence left right and centre, not bringing about change at all.

Lib Dems haven't got a hope in hell and would be surprised if they could get 5 seats.

Labour will most likely get in and hopefully Ed can pull something out of the bag at election time...

It makes me laugh all these people going 'I will always vote Labour' and 'I will never vote Tory' or the worst one 'My great grandfather, my grandfather and my father voted Labour so I'm voting Labour etc'

The Labour Party is doing worse than the Conservative party is, its on the up. If you look at opinion polls your notice that the Tories are the most favoured party. I see it as you vote whichever party is best at the time. Local and nationally. Its a proven fact that Conservative Councils are the best and nationally the Tories don't do a to bad job.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

The cause of the global banking crisis was due to the Austrian Business Cycle, caused by central banks such as the Federal Reserve and Bank of England - both Labour and the Conservatives are guilty of supporting this fiat currency which creates a credit boom resulting in the end result, a bust. Had the Conservatives of been in (they supported Labour's moronic spending plans until 2008) we would have had the recession resulting from the ABC (above) and we would have had the same debt levels.

So your right in one sense, the Tories have just as much blood on their hands too.

Thoughts?

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Well I agree partially but the real problem was 'greed' and started in the states i.e. bankers lending sub prime mortages at excessive rates with house prices at wholly unrealistic prices and selling these accounts to other banks and the bubble burst again exactly as it did under the last Tory government. It is not just the rise in public spending that caused this it is people being encouraged to live beyond their means and expecting a never ending rise in living standards. We will never agree about public spending. My view is that when they privatised british rail it has been probably more of a tax burdon than it was when public and the standard is well below what it was. The same can be said of the energy companies. They estimate that 5ml people are in fuel poverty and there were 3000 deaths directly attributed to it last winter. The Tories seem to only be interested in the finance centre which quite honestly is a 'paper' industry. What we need is a proper manufacturing industry and I believe Labour had the right balance in tackling the deficit in stages and investing in infrastructure. I do not believe we would be in the position now which is worse with unemployment shooting through the roof again and the benefit bill will just go up because of it. They are now crowing about their regional grant system which has made 2 grants in a year. The difference now is that people in the street are constantly complaining about it because they are being hit the hardest which is always the same when there is high inflation and VAT goes up.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Well I agree partially but the real problem was 'greed' and started in the states i.e. bankers lending sub prime mortages at excessive rates with house prices at wholly unrealistic prices and selling these accounts to other banks and the bubble burst again exactly as it did under the last Tory government. It is not just the rise in public spending that caused this it is people being encouraged to live beyond their means and expecting a never ending rise in living standards.

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As Milton Friedman says, of course none of us are ever greedy ourselves - its the other fellow. The Banks which took risks took the risks because of the excess credit caused by government printing money. It did start in the States because thats where the Federal Reserve is which prints the supreme currency of the world - but the Bank of England is just as to blame as the Federal Reserve.

Until we understand that this is why we have bubbles and bursts, it will continue under any government.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

We will never agree about public spending. My view is that when they privatised british rail it has been probably more of a tax burdon than it was when public and the standard is well below what it was. The same can be said of the energy companies. They estimate that 5ml people are in fuel poverty and there were 3000 deaths directly attributed to it last winter.

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But surely this is partly the fault of Ed Miliband and the European Union? Ed Miliband as Climate Change and Energy Secretary implemented the £18bn a year Climate Change Act along with EU directives which demand that energy companies use 'renewable sources' - they only do what any business has to do, pass the cost on to the consumer.

I also note that the Conservatives support these measures.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

The Tories seem to only be interested in the finance centre which quite honestly is a 'paper' industry. What we need is a proper manufacturing industry and I believe Labour had the right balance in tackling the deficit in stages and investing in infrastructure. I do not believe we would be in the position now which is worse with unemployment shooting through the roof again and the benefit bill will just go up because of it. They are now crowing about their regional grant system which has made 2 grants in a year. The difference now is that people in the street are constantly complaining about it because they are being hit the hardest which is always the same when there is high inflation and VAT goes up.

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But government can't invest - government hasn't a clue about investment. When government takes money out of the real economy (from the pub landlords, from the small business owners, from Tesco who may be planning another store) - that removes money from the economy. I ask this question, if investing by government works - why doesn't government just take out a 100% loan and 'invest'?

I also ask, how are we supposed to compete with producing goods against China/India etc when we have minimum wages, high taxation to support a welfare state, high stealth taxes on fuel, multiple health and safety regulations, workers tribunals, powerful Unions, paternity/maternity leave - how can we possibly compete in production when we have these measures?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

As Milton Friedman says, of course none of us are ever greedy ourselves - its the other fellow. The Banks which took risks took the risks because of the excess credit caused by government printing money. It did start in the States because thats where the Federal Reserve is which prints the supreme currency of the world - but the Bank of England is just as to blame as the Federal Reserve.

Until we understand that this is why we have bubbles and bursts, it will continue under any government.

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But Dan, the banks have not been asked to pay for the mistakes they made. It is the 'ordinary Joe' in the street.

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But surely this is partly the fault of Ed Miliband and the European Union? Ed Miliband as Climate Change and Energy Secretary implemented the £18bn a year Climate Change Act along with EU directives which demand that energy companies use 'renewable sources' - they only do what any business has to do, pass the cost on to the consumer.

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Don't know enough about this to make a good judgment tbh but what I do know is that they rise the prices excessively just before winter about 15/20% and blame it on price rises but do not lower their prices when prices or raw materials drop and they have. I feel it is quite niave to say they are only 'a business' when at least 3 of them this year have been fined for unfair practices and they were basically all found to be in cohoots with each other. If it was proper private enterprise I would not have a problem with it because it would be naturally competitive. This is just taking the piss to me ( excuse my language) LOL.

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But government can't invest - government hasn't a clue about investment. When government takes money out of the real economy (from the pub landlords, from the small business owners, from Tesco who may be planning another store) - that removes money from the economy. I ask this question, if investing by government works - why doesn't government just take out a 100% loan and 'invest'?

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Your evidence for this? Also I was thinking about infrastructure and construction - work for the private sector.

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I also ask, how are we supposed to compete with producing goods against China/India etc when we have minimum wages, high taxation to support a welfare state, high stealth taxes on fuel, multiple health and safety regulations, workers tribunals, powerful Unions, paternity/maternity leave - how can we possibly compete in production when we have these measures?

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We shouldn't be in competition with countries like that whose work conditions are normally appalling and who don't even give their workers a living wage. What ever happened to buying 'British'. It just seems to be to buy whatever is the cheapest. Attitudes need to change. Businesses should start taking some moral reponsibilities for the state of the world too. It is not all about 'the bottom line'.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

But Dan, the banks have not been asked to pay for the mistakes they made. It is the 'ordinary Joe' in the street.

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I couldn't agree with you more! thats why the Banks should not have been bailed out!

Anything that cannot make money/is insolvent should never be bailed out by unwilling taxpayers.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Don't know enough about this to make a good judgment tbh but what I do know is that they rise the prices excessively just before winter about 15/20% and blame it on price rises but do not lower their prices when prices or raw materials drop and they have. I feel it is quite niave to say they are only 'a business' when at least 3 of them this year have been fined for unfair practices and they were basically all found to be in cohoots with each other. If it was proper private enterprise I would not have a problem with it because it would be naturally competitive. This is just taking the piss to me ( excuse my language) LOL.

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That is a part of it what I mentioned (about a third of our energy costs are due to renewable subsidies), however the part you mention is also a big issue, I agree - and the way to bring this down is via competition. This means no subsidies for energy companies, no special favours to each company by government and a complete knockdown of regulations regarding how we get our energy.

Get the government out of it and we can have this.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Your evidence for this? Also I was thinking about infrastructure and construction - work for the private sector.

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I gave the evidence; if this were true (that government could create work by spending) then each government would simply spend (or 'invest' as you term it) and we'd have the most powerful economy in the world. It isn't a coincidence that the economies with least government intervention are the strongest. A private sector that relies on government 'investment' to survive isn't a private sector.

http://www.iaza.com/work/111101C/iaza18844689447000.bmp

Government is the pink box, it gets the least value for what it spends.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

We shouldn't be in competition with countries like that whose work conditions are normally appalling and who don't even give their workers a living wage. What ever happened to buying 'British'. It just seems to be to buy whatever is the cheapest. Attitudes need to change. Businesses should start taking some moral reponsibilities for the state of the world too. It is not all about 'the bottom line'.

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Then you will not be in competition with them and these jobs will not be created. There isn't an argument here to go back to the workhouses and slums, my argument is simply - if you want British business and production to become a success and start producing then we need to rid ourselves of government meddling such as the minimum wage (which youth unemployment has since spiked), maternity leave (which is why smaller businesses are wary of hiring any young women) etc.

Your intentions often are noble and I have no doubt you want to help people, but as they say - the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

Well I don't know where you got the 'third' from as any targets I have seen would never add up to that. Have you got any links for this? I agree that the Railway and Utility 'privatisations' are a complete mess as they are. I do believe in a mixed economy just not as much as you do in respect of privatisation. I do not actually think the bank bail out will cost us anything in the long run but they should be made to pay for their mistakes as well. They do seem to get off scott free. In times of trouble government investment does help to keep the private sector growing. I am not suggesting that it should be done in times of prosperity just to avoid more unemployment. I do not feel young women should be sacked for being pregnant and should have maternity leave after working for the company for a reasonable time but I do think it has gone too far and I see very little reason for paternity pay. Employees should be paid a living wage so I have no argument with the minimum wage at all. There is high youth employment because there is high unemployment overall and companies are obviously going to favour those with experience. I do feel though that there is an excessive number of NEATs who should do something in return for their benefits.

I think at the next general election I'll be voting Conservative unless I get a UKIP mp where I live.

The Conservatives may not have cut much (yet) but at least they're trying to do something. Labour's plan at the last election was dumb and shouldn't have been considered. Lib-dems.. well, coalitions are fun, I guess?

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

I think at the next general election I'll be voting Conservative unless I get a UKIP mp where I live.

The Conservatives may not have cut much (yet) but at least they're trying to do something. Labour's plan at the last election was dumb and shouldn't have been considered. Lib-dems.. well, coalitions are fun, I guess?

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Cutting services left right and centre is only screwing up our future.

Why don't we have a party that stimulates growth and investment...

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Well I don't know where you got the 'third' from as any targets I have seen would never add up to that. Have you got any links for this?

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http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/0...76N32J20110724 including EU targets state we have to meet something like 20% from renewables by 2020 (which is actually impossible). These are the reasons why energy prices are rising, and they will continue to rise thanks to the European Union, the Conservatives and Labour and Miliband and Huhne.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I agree that the Railway and Utility 'privatisations' are a complete mess as they are. I do believe in a mixed economy just not as much as you do in respect of privatisation. I do not actually think the bank bail out will cost us anything in the long run but they should be made to pay for their mistakes as well. They do seem to get off scott free.

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If you want somebody punished, the prime reason was the central banking system and our monetary system as I said earlier yet you insist on voting for the same people who created the mess in the first place? But on the bank bailouts - why do you want them punished? you've just rewarded bad management by giving them taxpayer cash for running a shoddy business. Had we let the banks fail then their toxic debts would have been wound up and ordinary Joe and mainstreet wouldn't have had to pay the price of yet more debt added to the already massive mountain we had.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

In times of trouble government investment does help to keep the private sector growing. I am not suggesting that it should be done in times of prosperity just to avoid more unemployment.

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Where does this money come from to keep weak, bankrupt 'private business' afloat? business that provides real growth. Because you remove that capitol from the good business, you then cause a rot through the entire system.

See 1970s when we had to subsidise bad industry and private enterprise fled Britain.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

I do not feel young women should be sacked for being pregnant and should have maternity leave after working for the company for a reasonable time but I do think it has gone too far and I see very little reason for paternity pay.

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But a lot of young women aren't being hired in the first place because of maternity leave, so you are making them worse off despite the best intentions that you may hold. Leave contract agreements to the employer and employee.

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Originally Posted by Catzsy

Employees should be paid a living wage so I have no argument with the minimum wage at all. There is high youth employment because there is high unemployment overall and companies are obviously going to favour those with experience. I do feel though that there is an excessive number of NEATs who should do something in return for their benefits.

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The minimum wage creates unemployment, to give a person without the skills needed a job for £5 an hour is an act of forced charity - an act of charity that many business owners simply cannot afford. Without the minimum wage, workers would be allowed to learn a skill on the job and work their way up - this is again, good intentions which have the opposite affect.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

Cutting services left right and centre is only screwing up our future.

Why don't we have a party that stimulates growth and investment...

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This government is not cutting spending, it is increasing spending.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehou...-figures.thtml

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

This government is not cutting spending, it is increasing spending.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehou...-figures.thtml

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If it's increasing spending, why is it in the media constantly at how teachers are practically losing their pensions, how the NHS has to save billions and how the education system budget has been cut time and time again...

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

If it's increasing spending, why is it in the media constantly at how teachers are practically losing their pensions, how the NHS has to save billions and how the education system budget has been cut time and time again...

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Because it suits certain parts of the media to say that this government is cutting back spending in order to please Conservative voters, while it suits other parts of the media to also say how the government is cutting back, which is in order to please Labour voters.

Because without the fantasy of these 'cuts' - what would they both pretend to argue over?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...is-rising.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...ing-soars.html
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2011/10...-its-official/

What are your thoughts on this? do you now support this government know that you know they are increasing spending just like they did in Greece, Ireland and Portugal to 'stimulate growth', like you want?

Hopefully they will. Although somehow I doubt it!

Labour always mess things up, redistribute too much wealth and so the rich move, make everyone too equal and have taxed us out of our eyeballs almost every single time they've been in power (council tax has doubled..., although when my council became Tory again it went down), but sadly because people don't understand that measures have to be taken to reduce a deficit, nor suddenly make everybody economically certain again when Europe's in the news every five minutes, the Tories are the evil party.

I think the Tories don't do well simply because there is too much bad blood. "What Thatcher did!". Frankly they're so one-nation again you may as well consider them liberals with conservative economic policy.

Plus if Ed Miliband ever becomes prime minister then god help us. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ajthedragon

you may as well consider them liberals with conservative economic policy.

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Its conservative economics to spend even more than the last socialist government? how does that work out?

Or is it the case, as I argue, that the Conservative Party is actually left wing to judge by its actions rather than its hollow rhetoric?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Its conservative economics to spend even more than the last socialist government? how does that work out?

Or is it the case, as I argue, that the Conservative Party is actually left wing to judge by its actions rather than its hollow rhetoric?

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It is the conservative view to bring in gradual change, thus the full extent of the cuts won't kick in until next year.

Plus generally I don't believe they are spending more anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ajthedragon

It is the conservative view to bring in gradual change, thus the full extent of the cuts won't kick in until next year.

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We were told this last year, now its 2011 and government is still spending more. We were also told this in the run-up to the General Election remember? 'just you wait until Dave is in and he'll unleash his conservatism and save this country' well we are still waiting.

Its nice to hope, but pointless to put faith in something that isn't happening, is not going to happen or will ever happen.

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Originally Posted by Ajthedragon

Plus generally I don't believe they are spending more anyway.

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Is this because you want to believe in a myth despite what the figures show? you want to believe (just as I do) that the mess Labour created is being cleaned up? I must ask, what has the Conservative Party done for you and me as conservatives? nothing, it has utterly failed us both. Another example of Tory deception on the issue of spending is the fact that David Cameron, until 2008, openly supported Labours spending plans. To put it bluntly; If you want a conservative government then your going to have to stop voting for this dreadful political party which is dead in the water.

Until then, we will continue to have more debt, more EU, more immigration, more appalling education, more crime and so on.