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So, for those that haven't seen the announcement here it is; http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...5&goto=newpost
I like it, I know Will has been working really hard to develop this and make it work effectively so well done it's a big achievement for the wiki team :)
What is everybody else's thoughts on it?
Seems useful except for 2 things
- I highly doubt ud be on the wiki for that purpose anyway, if you wanted quick values you'd just check on mp or If its not on there then on the main site, or if the mp item has been mucked around with to get a higher price
- massive decline in the use of our values anyway as they come from peoples shops which come from mp so many people if not most will just look at mp to get quicker if not more accurate bases to work around with prices, as sad as that is for zee wonderful depart.
But apart from that should hopefully be a good success and clearly chippie has put a lot of work into it. Just interested though,will it feed the data off the site and therefore automatically update though, cause otherwise that would be very painful process.
It's fully automated, currently you have to wait for the mediawiki object cache to expire before it'll fetch new values however that's once every 24 hours which is appropriate enough.
It's more for convenience sake, if you're on the wiki and wish to know the value you don't have to look elsewhere.Quote:
- I highly doubt ud be on the wiki for that purpose anyway, if you wanted quick values you'd just check on mp or If its not on there then on the main site, or if the mp item has been mucked around with to get a higher price
Ye I can understand that fully as a reason to have, good reason tbh I just not sure how used it will be, but every opportunity to present our values to the public is a good one I suppose, plus Ye thought it would be automated, and 24 hours should be fine tbh.
I saw this being created and wondered what it was I think it's nice to have the value at the side but if there is no value it's displayed at 0 credits which may indicate that they are worth nothing. I know this goes off values on site but unknown would be better. However I like it!
I can make it "unknown", but I was just feeding the values as they were on the main site. I'll be sure to make that change on the next update to the extension, thanks for the suggestion.
Yeah I think it's a really good feature :) and no problem
When I came online I also wanted to point out that I think this looks really attractive! I do feel it should be at the top of articles in lieu of the bottom, however.
I can test that, I just need to be wary as I was scared of doing it in JS so I currently inject it into the mediawiki page rendering and getting it at the top of the article is more difficult than the bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotelUser
Out of curiosity do you have MySQL permissions to assign individual table permissions on the habbox.com db? I doubt you do since Matt doesn't, but Jin might have given them to you since you're less likely to break something by accident. I'd just rather grab the RV out of the database than using the rares page.
I think it's a nice addition for the project, I guess. If traffic is any indicator, though, it isn't a project that many people use. That isn't the fault of anyone working on the project but rather the concept itself. Take HabboRator which is also an archive of Habbo information and history. You can tell mounds of work were put in to that and you are lucky if anyone besides a few could even tell you what the site is for.
The wiki has a noble, valuable purpose nevertheless — to archive information about Habbo. I can guarantee you that if something like this is around when I am thirty-five (here's hoping it is) it will give me great feelings of nostalgia and pleasure. This kind of stuff should be saved, kept, archived, written about and detailed. Habbo has had a pretty dynamic environment over the years and it's nice to see aspects of it on a static page different from HabboRator in the sense that the minimalistic approach and the wiki environment make things better.
On topic, though, it isn't totally wise to use Habbox rare values or the same on HxW if you are a new user. That is a great portion of who use rare values and it isn't unfair to say that. The marketplace should always be given a check first because it updates much more instantly at the change of a price for some unforseen reason - it will always beat the Rare Values Team in speed. It still has its place, however, because rapid changes in price are not so common now that Habbo has mostly moved away from the exciting aura surrounding rare and super rare releases that we had in years past. Still, if someone starts buying up thrones quickly and the value was to change to a noted degree the marketplace will always reflect the change far before Habbox will.
I do agree wtih you that the team can't beat the Marketplace but I've noticed the Marketplace only updates once a day and that is when a new day begins due to the average going off the previous trades in tha last 24 hours and the last 7 days. In all honesty, it would be great if the team could update in a rapid amount of time and we were working on this so that it wasn't just me and Pigperson whom could update the prices on the site (as the Head Rare Values Reporters ask for item prices to be approved/denied) and if this is allowed in the future then we could update in a quicker time thus improving slightly. However, I really do agree that we aren't the fastest nor can we be, I think it's a nice feature to have all the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasey
I also found that with Habbox.com sometimes lagging or not working for me, the Wiki helps if I need a price for a rare on the site!
[More peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by jasey
use HabboxWiki than the habboxlive website directlyold data. We also have the lowest bounce rate of all the websites and a higher rate of returning users of all except for HabboxForum.
Mediawiki's caching is a godsend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa
Where are you getting those stats from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
7th May - 13th May:
Quote:
HabboxLive Unique Visitors: 7,132
HabboxWiki Unique Visitors: 1,472
HabboxLive Visits: 11.902
HabboxWiki Visits: 1,800
Using some old ones because I didn't have the recent timescaleQuote:
Originally Posted by RemelKiid
Just a quick opinion question, currently rares with no value (Even non-existent rares) show up in the footer box anyway, I can disable this functionality fairly easily, what are people's opinions on this?
surely they can't be rares if they have no value? never the less prob shouldn't be thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
If they don't have a reported value or they're unreleased they're a rare with no value.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenMerc
There can be rares with no value, what's to say that they are on the hotel but no trades have been witnessed, surely they are still rares? If they haven't been released at all on the hotel then I somewhat agree with you but then again, they can be exclusive rares situated to staff owned rooms which sometimes do get out somehow by the looks of it for some rares.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenMerc
Removing them from the footer could be a good idea, but then again sometimes their pages give some information. In two minds about that, what if you didn't have the non-existant ones in the footer but had a link to their appropriate page as I'm sure they will have one. Items such as the Graphite Pillar should have its own Wiki page therefore you could link to that if a user wanted the history, or would that come up with related items?
So what you're saying is that rares with no values link to their HxW page? I can't say that makes much sense from a user expectation standpoint, they expect all links in the footer box to link to habbox.com, there should be an inline link if they want to see the rare's page.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa
Ah right ok, I'm new to this Wiki stuff so I'm not sure how it all works. Thanks for quick reply :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
yes love i am very proud of your visitors but traffic is relative. when habborator which barely gets the work that habboxwiki does is still trumping the wiki in traffic by exponential amounts there is a long way to go. there is the fact that habboxwiki is still relatively new but then you must think that it has been given heavy promotion around habbox, including the most popular habbox site (the forum). then you must think that the active users of the forum are, by a majority, here for things other than habbo. more than anything, though, there is the fact that some people are just too uninterested in the whole concept of habbo history and information archives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
i did say, though, and i will say it again that i am in full support of it. i think it is a wonderful, wonderful thing and i will be using any site archiving the information about the site that defined my childhood in the future. regardless, it is clear that rare values are not a priority for habbox users whatsoever anymore. rare values used to be what brought people to habbox and kept it alive. that used to be the biggest thing. now people are here for the forum and, like i said, the majority of people posting on this forum are not posting about habbo. based on this, i applaud you a second time for taking the work to implement this but i don't think it is the most useful update.
regarding the marketplace updating every day, there are still some things that will update instantly. perhaps there is a rare that gets out in a special prize in a quantity enough to change the value of something from seventy-five credits to around forty. purely hypothetical as i am aware habbo doesn't hand out prizes in the same manner they used to pre-merge but you will notice the deflation because of the market saturation in minutes on the marketplace without using the charts and averages before you will ever get an update on habbox.
i will continue bearing in mind that this thread isn't about the rare values department but keep talking anyways. i don't mean to sound pessimistic or disrespectful but the majority of the rare values being updated on habbox are meaningless work. most of the updates posted are completely useless due to their inherent variability and low value. is it really necessary for someone to spend time updating a page that changes the value of something worth 2 credits three times in a fairly short period to vary it between being 'worth' 2 and 3 credits? wouldn't a quick search on the marketplace show you which amount you are going to get it for instantly?
if you even visit a furniture shop, do you think the owner is going to get their price guide from a guide that was updated three days ago or one that has the latest and cheapest price searchable in client? you get my point. it wouldn't be a bad idea to consider scaling the rare values department down to actual rares and stop updating these 'seasonal' or 'special collection' pages as if people are checking out the values of a vine wall on habbox to see if it finally makes that big jump from 1 credit to 2 credits on a guide not many stick to for a furni of that type. it's like a make-work project.
anyways, i totally digressed and if anything i applaud your work because this obviously took time to implement. perhaps the structure of the code can be used for something different as well one day.
You're joking right, you think habborator get barely any work? You couldn't be more wrong, just the very nature of the design of habborator means tons of hours go into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasey
The thing you have to remember is HabboxWiki is three months old, it was only properly promoted for maybe a month, in the interlude the content design department for the most part have been working on refreshing the main site guides, I've been working on the organisational things and the stuff that needs to be done (Such as setting up page templates) so content on the wiki is actually surprisingly low, we're just now getting starting to clear out all the in-completed pages that'll draw in more users.
@Chippiewill; anyway that on the Rare Values feature, when something is worth 1 Credit it can say '1 credit' not '1 credits' I think it looks odd, if not that's fine xD.
I didn't initially do this as it was defined in the template, but now credits is included in the parser function itself I can actually do this, I'll get right on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa
Thank you, that was a stroke of luck xD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
I have now implemented this into the next version, just working on some other optimisations before it goes live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa
No, I am not joking. Habborator obviously took a lot of work to initially design but over the years certain pages have been taken down or updated less and less frequently. What I mean is that I am almost positive there is a lot more work being put in to HxW than there is on Habborator unless the people at HR are working on secret pages that no one can see. Their stuff is great but almost none of their feature pages are even a little bit new and they aren't exactly speedy to update their archives of dynamic content. So no — you couldn't be more wrong. I think I was very fair in what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
Is it your favourite thing to do to take things people clearly already state in their post and then tell them they need to remember it? Is it not one of your favourite things at all and just a terrible habit? I don't need to remember that HxW is young because I said it in a post preceding yours.
In any case, I was being very polite before because I understand how much volunteer work is put in to HabboxWiki. If I am frank, you are delusional if you think once you finish up any number of uncompleted articles you will see any definite, noteworthy rise in traffic. I don't expect you to be very up in this sort of thing so I will explain now that HxW is going to be looking for organic traffic — totally unprovoked people (generally using a search engine like Google) going to whichever page on HxW that they are looking for. HxW has a great advantage here because as far as any similar ideas out there about Habbo, none are as SEO friendly as the wiki is.Quote:
there is the fact that habboxwiki is still relatively new
Of course, looking at some of the pages I assume will be most popular still leaves a lot to be desired. A lot. There are mistakes that simply shouldn't exist on pages that have been up since November of last year. I know it has been brought up to the Content Team time and time again that the writing and grammar on HxW is inconsistent and it looks like it has improved but it still isn't at the standard for an archive. There are also other errors on the popular pages like continuity faults and small mistakes in history. I'm not going to point everything out to you but I would start on the page 'Throne'.
I'll end by finishing up in closing an incomplete thought. Again, there is not going to be any noteworthy increase in traffic on the wiki in the future unless the forum props it up on a month-long crutch for everyone to go look at again. The way the wiki will get traffic is slowly and as things start to improve. The content has come a long way since a couple of months ago but it still has so far to go to come close to the professionalism and accuracy of Habborator. Really, though, you could have already understood that as you weren't clear about how quickly you think new users will come. What worries me is that you say they will come once you ...
People who wanted the information they could have gotten on an uncompleted page are not likely to be checking every day or necessarily ever again until they need the information they ended up getting somewhere else again. The traffic will be a slow movement because of the nature of the site but the flow will widen as the reputation of the wiki as something reliable and quick increases.Quote:
clear out all the in-completed pages.
I actually wrote a really long reply responding to all your points however I don't want you to reply to them and waste my time again so I won't post those points.
Currently 200/319 articles (Content worthy) pages are under 500 bytes, which basically means they have nothing on them. When 2/3 of the pages are essentially blank it makes for a very unhelpful resource, if we get them filled in then they're helpful. Once helpful more people will want to use it. Provide a better service and more people will us it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasey
Simple business logicSimple logic.
Only other problem with the wiki is navigation, going from one topic to a related one is presently very uncomfortable for users which means the likelyhood they'll view more than one page is low.
So what you're telling me is that instead of using a wiki how it's meant to be used, aka see a problem - fix it, you thought the better idea would be to tell me in a feedback thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by jasey
a) Something I already knew and was already obvious
b) Something that was easy for YOU to fix
So I am sat here to conclude that you're either a troll or trying to pretend that you know what's best for Habbox, if this was your first post I would assume the former but after seeing you in MANY other feedback threads I am forced to think that your *REMOVED* is the latter. And actually until you understand properly what HabboxWiki is I will only ignore your pointless feedback.
Edited by SyrupyMonkey (Assistant General Manager): Please respect all members and their opinions, and refrain from insulting them.
Totally! People that disagree with you are not worth your time. I see you're warming up to the Habbox ideal already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
I really appreciate the fact that you are using your brain to make conclusions like that. No sarcasm, that is generally good logic but it doesn't apply here. This isn't the type of site that is going to get a huge rise in traffic just because you finish a rash of articles. The traffic rise will be slow — probably one of the slowest for any of Habbox's endeavours through all time — and that is simply the nature of an online encyclopedia. You are absolutely right that it will rise after the articles are improved, increased and made better but I will say again that you are not quite totally there yet mentally if you expect something other than a trickle increase. It's also really nice to know that about two thirds of the 'content worthy' articles are at that level. How long has the wiki been out now? I understand that it is all volunteer but certainly no one should have been big upping it like they did when it is at this state. Oh my goodness!Quote:
Currently 200/319 articles (Content worthy) pages are under 500 bytes, which basically means they have nothing on them. When 2/3 of the pages are essentially blank it makes for a very unhelpful resource, if we get them filled in then they're helpful. Once helpful more people will want to use it. Provide a better service and more people will us it.Simple business logicSimple logic.
This has been an issue from day one and if it's still an issue more than a month later then I lose more faith in the Content department.Quote:
Only other problem with the wiki is navigation, going from one topic to a related one is presently very uncomfortable for users which means the likelyhood they'll view more than one page is low.
Excuse me? This is a volunteer project and I am in no way obligated to go fix mistakes for the Content team. Do I have a Habbox Staff usertitle under my username? Look closely — I don't. I am not in any way obligated to spend my time fixing the broken articles on the wiki. It wouldn't be an easy job and where would I start and stop. I can go to pretty much any article with detail and see that it is spattered with mistakes. This is not how you manage a wiki. You don't tell people "if you think it is bad then fix it yourself," but rather encourage the building of a common knowledge base.Quote:
So what you're telling me is that instead of using a wiki how it's meant to be used, aka see a problem - fix it, you thought the better idea would be to tell me in a feedback thread:
a) Something I already knew and was already obvious
b) Something that was easy for YOU to fix
I have done you nothing but favours by offering constructive criticism. I am not saying that it is terrible with no backing up. I am giving clear ideas of where to improve and if you want to have a tantrum over that then I suggest you rethink your position as someone representing the project. I don't know how you get the idea that I could possibly ever be a troll here when my posts have contained compliments and praise for the work that you have done no matter the current outcome.Quote:
So I am sat here to conclude that you're either a troll or trying to pretend that you know what's best for Habbox, if this was your first post I would assume the former but after seeing you in MANY other feedback threads I am forced to think that your *Removed* is the latter. And actually until you understand properly what HabboxWiki is I will only ignore your pointless feedback.
It is a sad reflection on the Content team and Habbox as a whole when you are calling someone offering very detailed and constructive criticism an 'arrogant ass' and 'to be ignored'. Do you think that is how a staff member should act? I don't lionize my knowledge about Habbo or Habbox but I am definitely, after the time I have spent on both, in a position to be able to give an opinion. Really, I am embarrassed for your staff peers having to see you act like that in a public forum. I guess the preteen syntax and grammar on the wiki is not a coincidence — we have the attitude to match it on the forums!
You seem to have come to the false conclusion that every grammar and spelling check must be carried out by the content design department and you clearly do not understand our purpose on the wiki. Our purpose is not to make up every page edit on there, we're not here to babysit everyone and do everything for them. HabboxWiki is far to large of a task for us to even attempt to do that. So what is our purpose? Ideally the content design department could have just forgotten about the wiki from day one and the community could have been excited and made it a great thing. Unfortunately on launch everyone decided that it would be a better idea to start talking about it rather than doing something about it. Now I can understand this and I know the ideal will never happen, the content design department is (at the frustration of many members of the staff by the way) having to give the wiki a running start. Now I lost my cool yesterday because frankly I shouldn't nor should any content design staff have to be informed about:
- Spelling Errors
- Grammar
- Inaccuracies
That are located on the wiki. You see it, you fix it. Don't preach to me about how the wiki is useless this that and the other. I ALREADY KNOW. What can I do about it? Other than force every member of the department to keep at 1000 page edits a month - not much.
What is the content design departments main long-term in the wiki? Preventing vandalism and assisting in the structure. Don't bother informing us about much else because it should be your own responsibility to fix problems that you see.
I've noticed you telling Jasey to edit the errors in the Wiki himself if he comes across any Chippie, but this whole Wiki thing.. if the users decide to edit everything in the Wiki then what is the job of the Content Designers?
As far as I can see, the content pages on Habbox.com haven't been updated that much since I left the department and the Wiki was being planned then so what do you guys do now exactly as the Wiki is being edited by users now?
Well the content department was working on a Habbox.com refresh, so some of the pages were updated etc but about two weeks ago they removed everyone's rights on the Habbox.com site and changed everyone's roles to work on the Wiki.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin
I think the Content Department should focus on either the Habbox.com website or the HabboxWiki because with the Wiki there is no point of the guides on the main site as I'm guessing they will all be/have been exported over to the Wiki.Quote:
Originally Posted by RemelKiid
Do Content Staff work on Content on HabboxLive as some parts of that haven't been updated in ages.
Anyway, the Content Staffs purpose is to do pages, improve tem and also approve them, not sure if this is correct as I am no longer in the department but that's what it appears to me with what I've witnessed in previous days and weeks.
Content staff do not work on HxL, no :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa
As far as I'm aware (I only work on the wiki) we don't as it's on a completely separate system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samanfa
Interesting debate, I will not deny that HabboxWiki needs a running start from staff, in fact that's what we are trying to do since the wiki is technically our responsibility however the implication that I disagree with is that the content design department is staffed enough to carry this out by itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin
I just think that Content Designers should work on one thing, so maybe focus on the Wiki and remove the guides on Habbox.com so users don't get confused by what to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippiewill
Also, do you not have a navigation for pages on the Wiki? The only way to navigate to other pages is by going to a Random Page?
We're working on this and this is something that has to be done by people either experienced or trained to do it, sadly most of the content staff are currently on leave and I'm too busy with exams to make the topic portals and more nav boxes at the moment, I'm not too busy this weekend however so I'll be hopefully working on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin
If you are struggling to find content pages a lot of pages have been categorised recently so if you click on the categories button in the side bar you'll find many pages like that.
Didn't know thrones had dropped that low. That's an awesome feature though, well done.