Racist or common sense?

I was brought up to not judge people just because of their race or whatever else. But while I was watching a show and read people's comments about it I started to wonder.

The show was about black people being targeted (by being followed by employees, searched for stolen goods and being kicked out) at clothing stores because employees make the assumption that just because they're black, they're going to steal.

I read a comment made by someone who worked in a clothing store before. They stated that from their personal experience, black people are more likely to steal than white people. They also said that it isn't racist, but more of an adapting to one's surrounding.

I've seen similar points to these, such as people staying away from black people just because of a few statistics of crime rates they've read (stating that black people commit more crimes than white etc.).

Is it really common sense/adaptation to one's surrounding? Just like one would keep a close eye on a random stranger talking to an unsupervised child in a playground (random example, sorry)?

I for one would never judge an entire race just cause of a few statistics I've read, but it's quite hard to argue with the facts in front of us.

Do you think this is racism or just common sense?

Moved by Lee (Forum Super Moderator): From 'Discuss Anything'.

stereotype

I don't see a problem with staff keeping an extra eye someone of a different race if people of that ethic are a known problem in the past, if that's the case of course staff will be weary. It sounds racist but really isn't, in my opinion anyway. If someone is constantly being hounded and kicked out of shops just for being black, that's when racism kicks in but as far as keeping an extra eye on someone it isn't exactly racism. It's like watching fat people on a tour in a chocolate factory, just in case they decide to have a taste, it's perfectly fine or keeping an eye on a midget in the deep end of a swimming pool, in case their tiny midget hands magically get sucked into a tiny midget vent and trap them, drowning their midgetness.

For me, I don't judge people on the colour of their skin, but I do judge them on the way they present themselves. If I saw a man in a suit walk past me in the street, I wouldn't worry at all, whether he was Black, White, Asian or otherwise. If I saw a man dressed in a hoody, with the hood up tight and a pair of large baggy jeans in which his hands were concealed, I would be a bit more cautious, whether Black, White, Asian or otherwise. The same is applicable for women - let us not forget sexism in such a politically correct world

It is racist. If I were black (using this as it's the example you've used) I'd be so offended/genuinely upset to notice that I'm being specially watched in a clothing shop just because of my skin colour. It's such a common stereotype yet I don't believe in it for one second.

They did something on it in Eastenders a few episodes ago (YEP I'VE REFERENCED EASTENDERS) where Ray (he's basically just this guy who happens to be black) was randomly stop and searched in the street by police entirely based on his skin colour because there'd been some stolen stuff in the local area. He was mad and obviously felt so hurt that they'd do that based on such a characteristic.

Everyone is stereotypical, don't try to deny that you don't **** yourself when a Pakistani man is sat next to you on a plane.

it's not racist unless you're saying all black people steal.

It is STATISTICALLY correct that the majority (meaning 51%+) of convicted thieves are black, therefore saying that more black people steal is correct. Unless you want to argue that more white people get away with it?

It's like saying most Christians are white. Which isn't racist, it's stating a fact.

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Originally Posted by laura

it's not racist unless you're saying all black people steal.

It is STATISTICALLY correct that the majority (meaning 51%+) of convicted thieves are black, therefore saying that more black people steal is correct. Unless you want to argue that more white people get away with it?

It's like saying most Christians are white. Which isn't racist, it's stating a fact.

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If you suspect more black people then you're going to catch the black people who are actually doing it. :P
I agree with Shaz, if you assume someone is a potential criminal based on the colour of their skin then it's racist. However, I don't really think it's something you can get around. It's human nature to label people even if that is to the detriment of innocent people.

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Originally Posted by Inseriousity.

If you suspect more black people then you're going to catch the black people who are actually doing it. :P
I agree with Shaz, if you assume someone is a potential criminal based on the colour of their skin then it's racist. However, I don't really think it's something you can get around. It's human nature to label people even if that is to the detriment of innocent people.

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But people don't tend to suspect black people - in the shops I've worked in I keep an eye on EVERYONE, because a thief is a thief at the end of the day... Yeah steoreotypes suck (try being blonde) but it's something you have to deal with and prove wrong.

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Originally Posted by laura

it's not racist unless you're saying all black people steal.

It is STATISTICALLY correct that the majority (meaning 51%+) of convicted thieves are black, therefore saying that more black people steal is correct. Unless you want to argue that more white people get away with it?

It's like saying most Christians are white. Which isn't racist, it's stating a fact.

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Whether that is true or not, while statistics like that exist, this "divide" between races will not cease to exist.

It's not common sense because you shouldn't judge someone on ethnicity, but on how they act combined with how they dress (but never how they dress alone).

Common sense would actually allow one to note that the chances of being randomly assaulted in the street by anyone are ridiculously low (especially if you're a woman) unless you're in a high-crime area, in which case race still doesn't really come into it. In terms of shoplifting and such this is also true, there are high-crime areas and a very tiny number of people who are otherwise likely to commit these thefts

Racial profiling only serves to minimalise awareness of crime as a general problem, and to worsen the situation for those who are victims of the profiling while potentially letting a large percentage of people get away with the crimes unpunished because they weren't similarly checked or suspected, which then of course skews the figures even further than they already are

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Originally Posted by laura

It is STATISTICALLY correct that the majority (meaning 51%+) of convicted thieves are black

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Whoops

It's not common sense, it's just racist. Also, IF statistically there are more black thieves out there, were they rightly convicted? This idea that we perceive all black people as thieves may just persecute them more when defending themselves. What about white thieves, are they rightly convicted or simply just warned, therefore not properly put through the criminal system? It would help if there was secondary statistics to back up the primary, to see what happens when giving a criminal conviction. Many black thieves may be found guilty and not warned, while white ones are simply just warned and only really found guilty if their actions persist.

If it was common sense, then the majority of people should have this idea in the back of their heads that all black men and women are thieves. As it's an unfounded belief, it's not common sense. Just misguided idea which is more damaging to a community than helpful. Quite a selfish belief really.

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Whoops

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I think you'll find that's just UK figures :)

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Originally Posted by laura

I think you'll find that's just UK figures :)

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49% in the US with a substantially higher non-white population (65.5% "white" in the US as compared to 90.94% "white" in the UK), still nothing like a majority in the Western world. Also I'm not sure if you've noticed but we live in the UK, which is why such figures are rather important in a discussion like this. Either way, the fact remains that you clearly did no research whatsoever before outright stating that the majority of criminals are black, also suggesting in your previous post that the likelihood of white people getting away with crime is not an issue when it's actually one of the biggest (other than sex discrimination) problems of the courts worldwide

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Originally Posted by laura

it's not racist unless you're saying all black people steal.

It is STATISTICALLY correct that the majority (meaning 51%+) of convicted thieves are black, therefore saying that more black people steal is correct. Unless you want to argue that more white people get away with it?

It's like saying most Christians are white. Which isn't racist, it's stating a fact.

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more black people steal than white people? considering population differences are INCREDIBLY different, and any samples/therefore findings wouldn't exactly be valid due to the fact that many variables (such as socio-economic positions, environment, location, amount within & different populations, etc. vary) aren't even comparable. therefore, your 'STATISTICALLY CORRECT' argument is invalid as the majority of people don't base their discriminative practices on 'statistics', but rather who society has told them are instant criminals (mainly through the media, and through the fact that many agencies within society socialise use to believe that black ethnic minorities are perceived automatically as criminals).

and coming from someone whose been on the receiving end of it, yes it is racist.

Considering the fact that many black people have lower living standards and social positions than the white people, it is obvious why people think that. Take a hypothetical situation where white people are mostly poor and blacks are not, why wouldnt the whites be subjected to the same experience?

It some areas it may be true that there are more black thieves than white thieves, but to assume that all black people steal is racist.

From my personal experience the people that shoplift in my area are the white chavvy teenagers that need cash to buy cigarettes, I guess this means that all white people are thieves then.

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Originally Posted by laura

It is STATISTICALLY correct that the majority (meaning 51%+) of convicted thieves are black, therefore saying that more black people steal is correct.

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This has been pointed out but that is far from the truth, even in America. If you watch sxephil on YouTube he mentioned it in his last video that black people are convicted for crimes a lot more than white people, you're right, but that doesn't mean white people don't do those crimes - they're just never convicted. Racism is still a big thing in the States and even in the UK, it seems.

The fact is that crime is much higher with areas of people who are of different colour - that's just a fact. However, racism would come into it if you claimed that being black (or yellow for example in relation to fraud) meant that you committed crime when it doesn't.

The issue is, and i've said it time and time again, cultural differences. The fact that we allowed multiculturalism to exist by allowing such large numbers of people from cultural groups into this country means that people do not integrate and will most likely retain habits which are common in their country but which are alien to a law ruled society like our own. It is to do with culture, not race - the racial element is simply a correlation.

As for profiling, i'm against it because I don't believe the Police have a right to stop anybody on the street if there is no genuine suspected criminal activity - but what private shops do is up to them. In regards to the Police and the state in general, it should treat everybody equally and not more negatively or positively due to the colour of their skin.

I can't even read half this thread, that's how ridiculous it is.

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Originally Posted by Catchy

I can't even read half this thread

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Too many big words?

This thread is being racist against the community of penguins

Post edited by GoldenMerc - Please stay on topic

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

Too many big words?

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Hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Munex

For me, I don't judge people on the colour of their skin, but I do judge them on the way they present themselves. If I saw a man in a suit walk past me in the street, I wouldn't worry at all, whether he was Black, White, Asian or otherwise. If I saw a man dressed in a hoody, with the hood up tight and a pair of large baggy jeans in which his hands were concealed, I would be a bit more cautious, whether Black, White, Asian or otherwise. The same is applicable for women - let us not forget sexism in such a politically correct world

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I agree with this so much. It's not so much age, race, sex etc that makes us 'judge' someone but how that someone presents themselves. If a black man dressed in a hoody and baggy jeans etc and so did a white man, I'd be just as afraid equally, just like, as you'd say, I wouldn't take notice of either race if they walked past me in a suit. It's also to do with what they are doing. If a man in a suit walked past in the street I'd think he was going to his office. If someone was dressed all Chav in the streets I'd think they were up to no good and I should be wary.

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Originally Posted by laura

it's not racist unless you're saying all black people steal.

It is STATISTICALLY correct that the majority (meaning 51%+) of convicted thieves are black, therefore saying that more black people steal is correct. Unless you want to argue that more white people get away with it?

It's like saying most Christians are white. Which isn't racist, it's stating a fact.

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I agree, if a person were to make the statement that 'all black people steal,' then that is racism because it's judging the whole race based on what may have come from one person's actions. However, it's common sense to look at the statistics. If 51+% off thefts are by black people then there is no denying the facts and it would be silly to suggest it's racism when there is clear evidence. It's not saying '51+% off thefts are black people so all black are thieves,' because that would be racism, it's merely displaying a statistic.

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Originally Posted by Charz777

I agree, if a person were to make the statement that 'all black people steal,' then that is racism because it's judging the whole race based on what may have come from one person's actions. However, it's common sense to look at the statistics. If 51+% off thefts are by black people then there is no denying the facts and it would be silly to suggest it's racism when there is clear evidence. It's not saying '51+% off thefts are black people so all black are thieves,' because that would be racism, it's merely displaying a statistic.

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"Merely displaying" a totally inaccurate and damaging statistic on race that has no source and has been disproved elsewhere is racist. Laura's ridiculous statement of 51%+ has been totally debunked using real facts and sources, so the entire premise of this post is wrong

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

"Merely displaying" a totally inaccurate and damaging statistic on race that has no source and has been disproved elsewhere is racist. Laura's ridiculous statement of 51%+ has been totally debunked using real facts and sources, so the entire premise of this post is wrong

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Okay, if that isn't a proved statistic I take it back :) I was writing based on that given as fact. I do apologise :)

To me, it's sad that it's even an issue to debate to begin with. Being cautious of other races because of some flimsy statistics, what nonsense.

As pointed out by @Inseriousity. earlier, if racist attitudes are going to make people more suspicious of black people then they are more likely to get caught. Maybe thieves of other races just get away with it more cos they aren't under such scrutiny.

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Originally Posted by Judas

To me, it's sad that it's even an issue to debate to begin with. Being cautious of other races because of some flimsy statistics, what nonsense.

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It is well known and accepted that crime amongst 'ethnic minorities' is much higher as a % than it is amongst the white population for example. The reason isn't race as I said earlier, the reason is culture - thanks to mass immigration. The truth is, when we import large numbers of culturally different people, then we will have a higher number of attacks on homosexuals, higher numbers of teenage rapes, higher numbers of forced marriages, more knife and gun crime, more cases of business fraud and so on.

All very simple yet people are afraid of making the connection for fear of being branded a racist.