Have Sulake ran Habbo into the ground?

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...4420/Habbo.jpg

In the world of the internet, games can come and go in a second and to some extent Habbo has done very well to still be with us here in 2013. The game has in many ways managed to stay alive because of its retro gaming look.

In recent years though, Sulake (the owners of Habbo Hotel) have begun to make very deep cost cutting moves which signals that revenue from the game has been falling. In 2012, the hotel came under scrutiny and criticism in the press because many felt it left children vunerable to online predators and didn't have sufficent controls or oversight to help protect its users. At the same time as impacting its visitor numbers, one investor even pulled out of the project altogether.

Some, usually older members, argue that the hotel has been ran into the ground over the years and that the game has lost the 'community' feel it once had - with much loved institutions and features being abandoned or radically changed such as the old Rares page, Habbo Club, Snow Storm and Battle Ball, the public rooms.. and so on. Other criticisms also include that Sulake has poor customer service.

On the other hand, you could argue that Sulake has done very well in keeping the game alive in what is a harsh market - ie, the replacement of Bebo, MSN and Myspace by Facebook and Twitter in a few short years. One argument is that Sulake needs to make changes often enough to prevent the game becoming 'stale' or boring - and that the community feel was lost because of the growth in the size of the hotel.

So what are your thoughts? have Sulake ran Habbo into the ground, or have they done rather well in managing the game? Do you think the game has been too radically changed or do you like it that way?

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The debate is open to you.

I voted "no" as for me the game was at its best before it updated to flash.

Having said that, I could live with that update. It made the game look more modern and fresh and perhaps I only disliked it so much as I'd been so used to the old graphics and layout.

For me, sulake have ruined the game in its search for money and cost cutting measures.

The marketplace screwed up rares values (not only the values themselves in cases but also, I suppose Habbox RV!)
The merge messed with, again, many values and made the hotel lose its "community feel"
More expensive credits- gone were the days when you got credits for a fair price.
Extremely poor moderation to save money
A lack of active "hotel managers"- back when habbo had active managers like ludus or L_W was when the game was at its best

I could go on and on.

Some updates were probably necessary (i.e the merge as some of the hotels were very small and perhaps one bigger hotel would be better) however in many cases I think the game has just failed to improve, in fact has done the opposite!

Or maybe I'm just saddened by the constant pointless updates which ruined the "oldschool" feel of the game, like updates to make old games like mocha theft or pressure stop working (many of which I hosted :'()

I used to love the anti-merge/anti-flash riots, haha

Eurgh. I should have read the poll question. I assumed it was the same as the thread title and so selecte yes! I meant to put no for the actual question that is there.

I think there should be a both option or something along those lines as it depends which way you look at it. If you're looking at targeting a bigger audience than before and attempting to gain more members then yes, it has improved indeed. However, if you're talking about other things such as the lack of active managers like Matt mentioned, the fact that it is more revolved around gaming and the like then no it hasn't.

When the BETA stages originated players were all for it, wanting to be a BETA tester and looking forward to it, but after it came the opinions withered and it began to grow old quickly - speaking as one of the original BETA testers I found the new Habbo amazing, I loved being on it, but like I said, eventually it grew tiresome - then I couldn't literally go on the old Client due to the lag. The BETA test came at a good time, for me, but those before had grown accustom to the older Habbo. Basically, it doesn't really matter about changing versions, interfaces or moving on to a different stage those who were there beforehand will not always welcome change, and Habbo might lost some members there, but there were so many new users signing up before - to the newer Habbo that they would get used to and that would outweigh those who left.

Players grow older and although change is usually imminent, perhaps they're changing in their real life therefore think that being online is escapism - thinking it won't change but eventually it does; likewise when they will get bored of games they play like Habbo.

Moving on and making different interfaces, moving onto other stages has kept Habbo going, if they were still using the layouts and Client from 2009 then I think more players would have been gone - the lagginess, the old graphics and the like would have grown boring and always, change is needed to expand. Speaking about expansion, when Paul Lafontaine came to Habbo and Sulake it was a very bad move - this wasn't always down to him but the removal of articles and the easier way of contacting staff; players knew who they could talk to if they needed unbanning or had an unanswered question and now it seems we only have 2 managers amongst other unknown staff - the managers using favouritism again and giving those on their friends list and so on special things - fansite reps, room builders inc? We don't need that rubbish and it should be available for everyone, alienating many just to cater for a chosen few that can't even be judged fairly - that's not improved Habbo in the slightest and if they continue to do so they will run it into the ground. When Paul Lafontaine was the CEO - he did conduct favouritism mainly with FieryCold, 5N etc. instead of caring about Habbo he went on to talk about food and random stuff - only replying to a selected few again. After the merge when the new hotel managers began to leave, SmoothCriminal and Fozzie more favouritism began - the only one left was Puffin, who actually cared about Habbo, set up the Habbo Council - something that seemed elite of course, but when I was in it I didn't believe it was, yeah the staff should have sorted it out themselves instead of allowing volunteers. Basically, I've waffled on, but favouritism is running it to the ground too - why cater for a select few, you need to try suit everyone and although that's impossible you need to try to do it as best as possible.

The merge was a curve that did improve Habbo in terms of numbers until 2012 when the mute took place, it allowed few new items onto all the hotels, giving a better trading system if they didn't have the MarketPlace and overall it did help for a while - it allowed more people and such.

Overall, Sulake are running Habbo into the ground with the favouritism of some players, yet when the acting CEO was in charge he turned Habbo around, something that should have stayed as Habbo progressed further into 2013 and continued to improve. For once Habbo was improving, but it goes to show that only one person was namely doing that at the time - it needs to be a continuous thing which at the moment it isn't. Currently, Habbo is running into the ground, but it doesn't need to and it can be improved.

I definitely think that Sulake has run habbo into the ground in terms of the community aspect. The community in pre-2007 was a lot better. There weren't any pointless updates every week that did nothing for the hotel, the staff were more involved, moderation was better, etc.

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Originally Posted by Dangerinmetal

I definitely think that Sulake has run habbo into the ground in terms of the community aspect. The community in pre-2007 was a lot better. There weren't any pointless updates every week that did nothing for the hotel, the staff were more involved, moderation was better, etc.

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Definitely, it seems the community aspect is only for that select few, you know those who could probably talk to the hotel managers or any staff they knew to get what they want. Yet, some who ask get cast aside - it seems that, looking at the ThisHabbo Badges thread, some members can ask for their rooms to be advertised, yet a fansite owner wanted an extension for a room limit, but was waiting ages for a reply, seems fair? Probably not :P.

it's defiantly not improved, that's easy to see with the attitude of the old players & also with the players decreasing

why fix something if it isn't broke?

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Originally Posted by Special

it's defiantly not improved, that's easy to see with the attitude of the old players & also with the players decreasing

why fix something if it isn't broke?

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I don't think that really applies as really the game had to update (in certain areas at least) to keep the game fresh and modern looking.

However I think that in many places, Sulake haven't just updated their game, they've fundamentally changed it.
There's a massive difference between updating and fundamentally changing IMO- as one keeps the same "morals" and "feeling" whereas the other changes it completely. The merge is a massive example.

Yes, they keep digging.

Edited by j0rd (Forum Moderator): Please do not post short pointless comments in this forum!

I say no as it was better like in 2007/2008 and since they've had these updates and that, it got worse

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Originally Posted by Shockwave.2CC

I say no as it was better like in 2007/2008 and since they've had these updates and that, it got worse

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Surely in 2007 and 2008 they had to have updates too? It's fine saying you preferred it in those years, but putting it down to just 'updates' could mean anything - which updates didn't you agree with as because if they didn't update then I doubt they will have been as popular as they are now. They have lost a lot of players, but surely they would have lost more if they didn't modernise to suit those just discovering Habbo or those growing up with the site. That's what I've always found with Habbo, the site grows with you, it's changed, but then so have you. In a way it's like the real world, if a company just stayed the same all the time then they probably wouldn't be able to expand their target audience or aim for more goals, it would just be the same thing day in and day out and eventually it would grow tiresome and boring, change is needed to ensure that people keep interested and again keep playing on the site. With updates, some of them have been bad and have appeared negative, but it's what's best for the site; some people may not agree with them straight away, but they get used to it - if the Volter text was still here, we wouldn't be able to read it or anything, would not updating have lost players? I believe so as at the end of the day if you can't chat on it then that's basically everything that Habbo is - players couldn't chat, trade, play games etc. on the other hand, some updates might not have been needed I agree with that, but most of the updates aren't running Habbo into the ground and some of them have improved the game play. The ability to play more games now, instead of just a couple previously, remember without the updates Habbo probably wouldn't have been here as compatibility wouldn't have worked either.

I guess it's fair to say that Habbo has had its peak, i'd say 2006-2008 which was my first years on the game, but since then it has gone through a lot of changes. However, it's not fair at all to base your opinion on whether you liked the updates and the changes, when some of them were essential. Can you imagine if the game now was just the same as it was 5 years ago? it's be extremely outdated, and that'd be not only pre-merge but also pre-flash. They have to update to keep modernising the game and to keep up with their target audience.

One of the big changes that I experienced was the movement to a flash client, as opposed to the shockwave. This really changed the game radically, and many people still complain about it today. But like I said above, can you imagine if they didn't? Imagine what the game would be today if they never decided to make that change - it'd be old and outdated in todays environment.

Another big change was the merge, and in particularly the merge of all English speaking hotels. Now, I really hated this change and even today I still hate that we merged and wish we could go back. However, again, it is benefiting us in a way. 5 hotels combined in to one means that Sulake can (or at least should) be able to focus more of their time and effort on us, and we should benefit from an increase in the size of the community too. But, whether we do or not is a matter of opinion. From a business perspective however, it was probably one of the best things they could have done.

There's also the hundreds of small/minor changes that Habbo make, which again keep the game modern and up-to-date. They need to continue to attract new users and the way to do that is to update and make sure that people have a reason to join and/or invite friends to the game. Yes they may have had their peak in terms of active users etc, but that doesn't neccessarily mean that all the updates were bad, or that Habbo will be going anywhere anytime soon.

What went wrong with habbo?

• The exchange stopped people buying credits
• The marketplace DESTROYED trading
• Channel 4 Paedo report caused a large drop in users
• The merge ruined many aspects, including;
• The HC sofa currency on .co.uk
• Users dropped, probably due to mucked up values

I think it was inevitable that it would decline in users, but some shocking business decisions helped speed up its death. The exchange was clearly a ridiculous move in terms of business, and it is clear that they are also well aware of this - afterall, you don't start introducing a tax system for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Marketing

What went wrong with habbo?

• The exchange stopped people buying credits
• The marketplace DESTROYED trading
• Channel 4 Paedo report caused a large drop in users
• The merge ruined many aspects, including;
• The HC sofa currency on .co.uk
• Users dropped, probably due to mucked up values

I think it was inevitable that it would decline in users, but some shocking business decisions helped speed up its death. The exchange was clearly a ridiculous move in terms of business, and it is clear that they are also well aware of this - afterall, you don't start introducing a tax system for nothing.

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Some would argue that the MarketPlace helped, but really it stopped the need for coin shops as much as they could look in there - then again, it helped for people to find averages and values regardless of whether they were rigged or not, it also helped shops gain more profit for both buyers and sellers, depending on the trade. Although, the MarketPlace did have downfalls, the amount of players putting their items in for 1c under the lowest price, that's already taking the average down if someone buys it, the ability to buy your own furniture and rig the values both increasing and decreasing them - which is a bit stupid really. Also, having the ability to put near enough anything in the MarketPlace itself is a silly idea, people literally buy for over the catalogue price and they don't realise, I can put in a Ditch Corner for 2c (3c with commission) and it would usually sell, yet, it is 2c in the shop.

Not only that, players don't have as many credits now really, the cost of various supers have gone up, but Habbo have tried to get credits off you more - making you have the exchange rate, losing 1c each time, and that multiplied by the amount of users who do it shows how much has gone out of the market. Also, the promotions, before we had limited currency back it cost 1c, some went crazy with this and used so many credits to promote their room and usually it has no avail to them, why make something that shouldn't cost, cost basically?

The mute and the channel 4 scandal made Habbo fail the most, the fact that we still don't have half of the things back like we did before - MiniMail and GuestBooks, they want us to make friends and stay on the game, but how can we when two of the most vital communication parts have gone? Not only that, but the removal of articles, we have to go on social media sites to contact staff usually yet if we do that on the game we get banned. Fansites, not given enough freedom then given too much and more errors occur, we need noticeable staff and at the moment we only know of a couple.

It does beg the question, what would have happened if we didn't have the things we have now? If we didn't have the mute there would be more players, MiniMail, Guest Books and events. Without the merge we wouldn't have access to a wider range of furniture or more items on the market, not to mention the amount of players although it has decreased so much. Without the MarketPlace, coin shops would be more popular alongside trade rooms, as for the values I'm unsure!

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

Some would argue that the MarketPlace helped, but really it stopped the need for coin shops as much as they could look in there - then again, it helped for people to find averages and values regardless of whether they were rigged or not, it also helped shops gain more profit for both buyers and sellers, depending on the trade. Although, the MarketPlace did have downfalls, the amount of players putting their items in for 1c under the lowest price, that's already taking the average down if someone buys it, the ability to buy your own furniture and rig the values both increasing and decreasing them - which is a bit stupid really. Also, having the ability to put near enough anything in the MarketPlace itself is a silly idea, people literally buy for over the catalogue price and they don't realise, I can put in a Ditch Corner for 2c (3c with commission) and it would usually sell, yet, it is 2c in the shop.

Not only that, players don't have as many credits now really, the cost of various supers have gone up, but Habbo have tried to get credits off you more - making you have the exchange rate, losing 1c each time, and that multiplied by the amount of users who do it shows how much has gone out of the market. Also, the promotions, before we had limited currency back it cost 1c, some went crazy with this and used so many credits to promote their room and usually it has no avail to them, why make something that shouldn't cost, cost basically?

The mute and the channel 4 scandal made Habbo fail the most, the fact that we still don't have half of the things back like we did before - MiniMail and GuestBooks, they want us to make friends and stay on the game, but how can we when two of the most vital communication parts have gone? Not only that, but the removal of articles, we have to go on social media sites to contact staff usually yet if we do that on the game we get banned. Fansites, not given enough freedom then given too much and more errors occur, we need noticeable staff and at the moment we only know of a couple.

It does beg the question, what would have happened if we didn't have the things we have now? If we didn't have the mute there would be more players, MiniMail, Guest Books and events. Without the merge we wouldn't have access to a wider range of furniture or more items on the market, not to mention the amount of players although it has decreased so much. Without the MarketPlace, coin shops would be more popular alongside trade rooms, as for the values I'm unsure!

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Marketplace is horrible. Added tax yet again (therefore giving rares and unnatural pricing). For me PERSONALLY, the really fun bit in making a room was finding the rares, getting a good deal etc - that simply is non-existent now. Marketplace also encourages depreciation of rares (as people are forced to sell 1c lower than the person already selling in there - and that continues on and on and on), which is something I dislike.

Habbo have been trying to get credits off you more - but that is something that has spurred because of their idiotic decision to create the exchange. Naturally, if they get rid of gold bars (about 60k credits at a time for every limited edition rare), people may eventually be inclined to buy credits. Standard move. The Channel 4 scandal was certainly damaging, but yet again they deserved it. Shocking management to allow the sex talk to go on, and to be quite frank I am surprised they haven't got in trouble for the blatant underage gambling - they don't even attempt to stop it.

If the C4 scandal never happened, marketplace wasn't introduced and they didn't merge the hotels habbo would still have 8k+ online on the UK hotel at any time. Whether they would make more profit or not is debatable, due to the need for more staff and huge server costs - but the game itself would be one hell of alot more fun than it is right now.

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Originally Posted by Marketing

Marketplace is horrible. Added tax yet again (therefore giving rares and unnatural pricing). For me PERSONALLY, the really fun bit in making a room was finding the rares, getting a good deal etc - that simply is non-existent now. Marketplace also encourages depreciation of rares (as people are forced to sell 1c lower than the person already selling in there - and that continues on and on and on), which is something I dislike.

Habbo have been trying to get credits off you more - but that is something that has spurred because of their idiotic decision to create the exchange. Naturally, if they get rid of gold bars (about 60k credits at a time for every limited edition rare), people may eventually be inclined to buy credits. Standard move. The Channel 4 scandal was certainly damaging, but yet again they deserved it. Shocking management to allow the sex talk to go on, and to be quite frank I am surprised they haven't got in trouble for the blatant underage gambling - they don't even attempt to stop it.

If the C4 scandal never happened, marketplace wasn't introduced and they didn't merge the hotels habbo would still have 8k+ online on the UK hotel at any time. Whether they would make more profit or not is debatable, due to the need for more staff and huge server costs - but the game itself would be one hell of alot more fun than it is right now.

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One thing that caught my eye was the fact you say Habbo hasn't tried to stop gambling, I don't think you were here when they did so apologises for that, but they went on a mission and banned many casino owners - only to unban them again later on, hence why many casinos are now called arcades. It was something about the gambling rules in Singapore if I remember correctly, they did try to stop it, but it didn't work. They stopped the dice working on another hotel and also banned many things like the exchange and such now, due to various factors and frankly that's not helping in the slightest, it's not set in stone gambling, but I'd rather have players gambling on there than losing in real life.

yh .

Edited by Bolt660 (Forum Moderator): Please do not post short pointless comments in this forum!

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Originally Posted by Brice

yh .

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Why not?

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Originally Posted by Samanfa

One thing that caught my eye was the fact you say Habbo hasn't tried to stop gambling, I don't think you were here when they did so apologises for that, but they went on a mission and banned many casino owners - only to unban them again later on, hence why many casinos are now called arcades. It was something about the gambling rules in Singapore if I remember correctly, they did try to stop it, but it didn't work. They stopped the dice working on another hotel and also banned many things like the exchange and such now, due to various factors and frankly that's not helping in the slightest, it's not set in stone gambling, but I'd rather have players gambling on there than losing in real life.

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Indeed, gambling is illegal in Singapore or something - they had no choice but to do that.

The fact remains, any attempts they have made are incredibly half-hearted - they don't really give a damn. This is evident with the "sex talk" that exists on the hotel, as in all seriousness, they have made it harder to sign up and bugger all else. They haven't really tried - the game pretty much encourages under age gambling, which is a seriously dangerous thing to do (believe me, I know - as up until recently it had cost me hundreds of pounds). Gambling is genuinely an addiction - and Sulake are sick for not stopping it.

You don't seem to realise that gambling on Habbo IS losing in real life. Players buy credits, thrones - and lose them. This is underage gambling and illegal in every single country Sulake operates in. The company is so unethical it is untrue.

its been ran into the ground by a series of poor, transparent decisions which have driven the core players away. they've only started listening to the players and allowed us to influence decisions when its been too late and/or in their own interest.

p.s. as for improving its usually 1 step forward 2 steps back

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Originally Posted by Marketing

Indeed, gambling is illegal in Singapore or something - they had no choice but to do that.

The fact remains, any attempts they have made are incredibly half-hearted - they don't really give a damn. This is evident with the "sex talk" that exists on the hotel, as in all seriousness, they have made it harder to sign up and bugger all else. They haven't really tried - the game pretty much encourages under age gambling, which is a seriously dangerous thing to do (believe me, I know - as up until recently it had cost me hundreds of pounds). Gambling is genuinely an addiction - and Sulake are sick for not stopping it.

You don't seem to realise that gambling on Habbo IS losing in real life. Players buy credits, thrones - and lose them. This is underage gambling and illegal in every single country Sulake operates in. The company is so unethical it is untrue.

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I'm talking about those who don't buy credits, but it looks like gambling has decreased over a period of time and I'm unsure why, perhaps scamming has increased I'm not sure.

Habbo hasn't made it harder to sign up, they've taken away the security captcha to sign up for a start so it's easier for spammers just to come in, it's not hard for someone to lie about their age if anything and it actually wants players to be sexual. During the Habbo Stars campaign they had a table, and they put a Light Pole on it and, yes, they meant it to be shown in that way, which is so annoying, they don't give a damn, they don't listen and frankly Paul Lafontaine was really rubbish in doing that. Thinking he was God's gift and everything, Sulake last year went down, so down that now there's not that many players or not as many people are used to, it frankly just keeps getting worse instead of better and then when we think they've actually one something positive it just goes belly up.

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Originally Posted by Marketing

What went wrong with habbo?

• The exchange stopped people buying credits
• The marketplace DESTROYED trading
• Channel 4 Paedo report caused a large drop in users
• The merge ruined many aspects, including;
• The HC sofa currency on .co.uk
• Users dropped, probably due to mucked up values

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This list sums it up perfectly.

The Channel 4 report revealed how truly unsafe and vulgar the website and community really is. What's shocking is how badly die-hard Habbo fans took the report, claiming it was biased when it wasn't, because the report was about how easy it was to talk dirty with clearly under aged people with very little resistance from those who are meant to keep the community safe - the report confirmed it. It shouldn't exist at all, when it clearly does and has done for years. C4 had safety and security experts that work in these very industries, and they were appalled!

The merger seems like the biggest culprit as it was around then when it was clear that Habbo were focusing on profits before customer satisfaction. America, the UK, Australia, Singapore etc all have different demographics - different cultures. Merging them all into one big community was never going to work, even if they tried. Not forgetting what you clearly outlined - different items of furniture had different values, and with the merger the whole Habbo economy crashed and the exchange and marketplace just added salt into the already large wounds. I don't even play the game and I can still see there are repercussions from that. The only attempt to solve this problem seems to of been to create ugly looking furniture to create a new value system, although that doesn't seem to of worked as there is no "gold" value - not like the HC or the Throne values.

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

This list sums it up perfectly.

The Channel 4 report revealed how truly unsafe and vulgar the website and community really is. What's shocking is how badly die-hard Habbo fans took the report, claiming it was biased when it wasn't, because the report was about how easy it was to talk dirty with clearly under aged people with very little resistance from those who are meant to keep the community safe - the report confirmed it. It shouldn't exist at all, when it clearly does and has done for years. C4 had safety and security experts that work in these very industries, and they were appalled!

The merger seems like the biggest culprit as it was around then when it was clear that Habbo were focusing on profits before customer satisfaction. America, the UK, Australia, Singapore etc all have different demographics - different cultures. Merging them all into one big community was never going to work, even if they tried. Not forgetting what you clearly outlined - different items of furniture had different values, and with the merger the whole Habbo economy crashed and the exchange and marketplace just added salt into the already large wounds. I don't even play the game and I can still see there are repercussions from that. The only attempt to solve this problem seems to of been to create ugly looking furniture to create a new value system, although that doesn't seem to of worked as there is no "gold" value - not like the HC or the Throne values.

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In response to the bit in bold, jesus christ that sounds uncanningly like the issues in Europe!

Spot on in regards to the Channel 4 report - personally I am glad they aired it, it is about time Habbo got a kick - just a shame no one has attacked them for their pathetic response to dangerous (and I mean it) underage gambling. Where habbo failed with the merge, as merging economies takes years - on a real world example, the Euro took a long time to actually get ready - the Exchange Rate Mechanism being just one of the many stages involved - yet Habbo just threw the games together. I know it is difficult to compare a game to the real world - but basic economics like this apply everywhere (and Habbo seem more than up for real world style gameplay with taxing for every action on Habbo!)

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Originally Posted by Marketing

In response to the bit in bold, jesus christ that sounds uncanningly like the issues in Europe!

Spot on in regards to the Channel 4 report - personally I am glad they aired it, it is about time Habbo got a kick - just a shame no one has attacked them for their pathetic response to dangerous (and I mean it) underage gambling. Where habbo failed with the merge, as merging economies takes years - on a real world example, the Euro took a long time to actually get ready - the Exchange Rate Mechanism being just one of the many stages involved - yet Habbo just threw the games together. I know it is difficult to compare a game to the real world - but basic economics like this apply everywhere (and Habbo seem more than up for real world style gameplay with taxing for every action on Habbo!)

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When it aired I was more surprised it hadn't appeared sooner! They deserved everything they got thrown at them. The investors were insane to back the business if they were blissfully unaware of the unethical approach to teenage based media that Sulake/Habbo had. It makes you wonder what was happening in the background for it to happen so long. There's no way Habbo/Sulake executives just said in meetings and reports "everything operating smoothly, minimal problems" when priority should be on customer safety, given the age range of your customers. Not forgetting the response by the CEO at the time - I have never seen such an idiot in charge of such a large business before, completely unaware of what business he runs and how he should run it. Sulake should of kicked him out ages ago.

It's amazing how economics can work with children and teenagers, and although it's a bit difficult to apply them to real world economics it's amazing how influential they can be. Pokémon cards had their own non-monetary values, for example. Some cards were worth a hell of a lot more to collectors in the same way as antiques and art. Habbo furniture has its own values and in some respects everyone is a collector and the fewer items in the mix the more valuable they are. It's shocking Sulake execs didn't know this - it hints that they pay very little attention to their community and just see the systematic side of the business - the back room of a store, without knowing what's happening out front.