Should prisoners have the right to education in prison?

points to consider:

- even with education, employers may be hesitant to employ an offender. the education may also not be good enough as there are other skills to be taken into account ie social skills which prisoners may lack. is this a waste of money and should it be used on other reoffending techniques?

- however, prisoners may be able to set up their own business and not have to expose their criminal status. is it fair they get this head start without having to pay for education unlike non-criminals who have to pay for the prisoners education with their tax money? should prisoners pay or do chores for it instead?

- without getting skills in prison it can be hard to do so once released. isn't it better to try reduce reoffending by ensuring they have the opportunity for a stable life? those who have little to zero education may finally find something productive to do with their life instead of crime. studies have claimed that prisoners who do not take part in education are three times more likely to be reconvicted than those that do.

- often prisoners dropped out of school without qualifications so obviously education is an important role, should we focus on the education and preventing within schools in the first place instead?

Human rights. I could just leave this post as this but I will go into slight details

If we take away education, how do these criminals learn different? They will be released with no education, a criminal record, depression and no moral compass. Therefore they are much more likely to commit an offense again. Give them an education, some will put it to good use, some won't. It then begs the question of should we "kill" the persistent offenders? I think we should, but that's for another debate.

But the end of the day, we have human rights. Everybody has a right to education regardless, just means the tax payer has to fork out more money. Is it fair? Life isn't fair. Pisses me off knowing I'm paying some 18 year old spotty faced chav's job seekers.

Criminals need to be educated for when they are released otherwise as said above they are likely to re-offend. They make mistakes just like we do. Some learn and some don't. It also keeps their minds occupied from whatever addiction they may have and gives them something to aim for. Sometimes it even gives them a little bit of hope.

I think if they are willing to get an education doesn't that count for something? To show that they're wanting to make some sort of change to their life and to learn and delelope new skills that they may no of had? - You can't kick people when they're down and when they are trying and I think that goes for them as well. I feel like when people are trying to change and make better of themselfs it doesn't help when you have the negativity around it. How can you expect a prisoner to change if they're not being given the resorces to help change them? They'll just do what they know and no doubt re-offend.

I guess the education being optional, those who choose to receive it should pay for it, even if the cost isn't as high as in a private school (obviously) it could just be the enough to be affordable and help to pay the teacher, at least part of his pay.

Sometimes the only reason people turn to crime is because they haven't been given the right opportunities to achieve within the mainstream society's education system. It's not always the offender's fault that they've fallen in with the wrong crowd and taken a deviant path to gain status so I don't see why, should they want a second chance, anybody should be allowed to deny them a chance to learn something useful.

Quite a number of prisoners have been shown to have learning difficulties of some sort that have affected their ability to cope in education and work situations in the past so to offer help with such issues can't be bad at all, can it? If it's going to better prepare them for life on the outside and lower recidivism then it's worth a shot...

Not sure why people would complain about paying their taxes for educating prisoners. Who cares if they've committed and offence or two? They're willing to change. If they're willing to try such methods of rehabilitation then you as the tax payer shouldn't be so reluctant to fork out, it's going to make our society better after all! It's not a waste of money and can of course be combined with other techniques like social skills training, anger management, etc.

I do think there should be a few cut-off points, though. For example drug users who offend just to feed their habit aren't likely to benefit and should be offered a different form of rehabilitation. It's difficult to determine whether it's going to help an offender in for a short stint (6 months, for example) since that's not really long enough and if they like the programme they might even reoffend to get back on it!

I wouldn't say it's a right necessarily. Commit a crime and I think a country has the right to punish you greater than the right to an education. However, as already mentioned, rehabilitation is a major part of why we have prisons in the first place and educating criminals with new skills to help them have the best chance of that means that it'd be a bit stupid not to offer it. I suppose the question we should really be asking is whether the education we're providing is good enough. If the aim is rehabilitation but the reoffending rate remains high (something like 55% I think), is the education system in prisons good enough or is it something else altogether.

As already mentioned I think if people want to change they should be given the support to do so. I watched Gordan Ramsay behind bars where he did something like this, teaching inmates to cook to give them actual skills they could use outside of prison and after the show he was trying I believe to get his idea rolled nationally. Some did revert back to their old selves but I think a few stuck with it and people ate the stuff knowing who had made it with Cafe Nero actually stocking their cakes.

At the end of the day prisons will continue to get over crowded without some rehabilitation program. Obviously some people won't change they don't want to but everyone deserves a second chance and if they don't get taught they'll just repeat it.

I think it could help a few people who want to get back on to the straight and narrow. Although a lot wouldn't use these skills. Dome might even try, and when they return to the real world, they go back to the same people. I'm not saying its all bad, but could be a waste. And why should people who have wronged get free stuff for doing so?

Although if you think about it, if it was your family member you'd want them to have the education and the options. But that just gets it more personal. My Dad is in prison, and the moment, I don't feel he should get any support. He's not done anything to help today's community, and I highly doubt he pay any taxes.

It could be used for certain people who have earned this option?

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Originally Posted by Kyle

Sometimes the only reason people turn to crime is because they haven't been given the right opportunities to achieve within the mainstream society's education system. It's not always the offender's fault that they've fallen in with the wrong crowd and taken a deviant path to gain status so I don't see why, should they want a second chance, anybody should be allowed to deny them a chance to learn something useful.

Quite a number of prisoners have been shown to have learning difficulties of some sort that have affected their ability to cope in education and work situations in the past so to offer help with such issues can't be bad at all, can it? If it's going to better prepare them for life on the outside and lower recidivism then it's worth a shot...

Not sure why people would complain about paying their taxes for educating prisoners. Who cares if they've committed and offence or two? They're willing to change. If they're willing to try such methods of rehabilitation then you as the tax payer shouldn't be so reluctant to fork out, it's going to make our society better after all! It's not a waste of money and can of course be combined with other techniques like social skills training, anger management, etc.

I do think there should be a few cut-off points, though. For example drug users who offend just to feed their habit aren't likely to benefit and should be offered a different form of rehabilitation. It's difficult to determine whether it's going to help an offender in for a short stint (6 months, for example) since that's not really long enough and if they like the programme they might even reoffend to get back on it!

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This. Also I bet the majority of the forum don't even pay tax yet lol.

It is fair, many of them may have dropped out of education when they were 14, so they not be as educated as normal people, so it gives them that opportunity they may not have had. This gives them a platform in which they can build upon, they need to learn things again, its not fair just tossing them back in the gutter :/ I think its fair, gives them another chance

Maybe if you educate prisoners, they'll learn how to live life by the law.

A lot of people are missing the point here, i've seen prison described as something intended to 'rehabilitate' prisoners - it's nothing of the sort. The original intent of the prison service and of any sane justice system is to punish those who have broken the law which is what justice is. The concept of rehabilitation has only come about since the 1960s cultural revolution, and since we've had softer prisons and more crime.

I also see people saying that prisoners are not educated - that may be true for some, but does that excuse acts of evil and malice against your fellow subjects? I certainly don't think so, and i'd say a great deal of prisoners are actually pretty wise and clever especially those involved in fraud or elaborate schemes. I think there is a case for education though of the old Victorian mantra of self help; that those who are young and who have done wrong ought to be given the chance (self help) to change their ways and become a better subject. A great deal of books should be on hand, as well as low-cost workshops where skills are learnt in classical subjects such as Maths, English, Woodwork, Home Economics etc.

So absolutely there's a case for good strong education (as opposed to sop) and hard work - to instill a genuine work ethic into prisoners. In a way you could call our old prison system (described above) of punishment, work and education as rehabilitation - but a genuine form of rehabilitation compared to the guff we have now where prisoners sit and talk about their icckle feelings and say sworri to their victims.

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Originally Posted by Cixso

Human rights. I could just leave this post as this but I will go into slight details

If we take away education, how do these criminals learn different? They will be released with no education, a criminal record, depression and no moral compass. Therefore they are much more likely to commit an offense again. Give them an education, some will put it to good use, some won't. It then begs the question of should we "kill" the persistent offenders? I think we should, but that's for another debate.

But the end of the day, we have human rights. Everybody has a right to education regardless, just means the tax payer has to fork out more money. Is it fair? Life isn't fair. Pisses me off knowing I'm paying some 18 year old spotty faced chav's job seekers.

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When you commit a crime you give up your human rights.

All prisoners should get a 10x10 grey room, no bed, no nothing. That's a prison. Prison these days is like a holiday camp.

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Originally Posted by Adam

When you commit a crime you give up your human rights.

All prisoners should get a 10x10 grey room, no bed, no nothing. That's a prison. Prison these days is like a holiday camp.

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While I do agree some people get treated too good - you hear of people who get room service and stuff in prison in some cases (maybe rare I don't know) there is not enough room to simply chuck everyone in.

At the end of the day what would happen if the prisons became full? I think education is the answer to this as a lot of people end up in prison because they didn't really get a great upbringing and sometimes where brought up around so much crime it seemed normal to them.

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Originally Posted by Adam

When you commit a crime you give up your human rights.

All prisoners should get a 10x10 grey room, no bed, no nothing. That's a prison. Prison these days is like a holiday camp.

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Sorry, just logged in after a few months.

You give up your rights for freedom. You do not lose your human rights, it is protected by law. Prison is not as what you describe. Prison is not about a 10x10 room etc for people who break the law to suffer. I think you're getting carried away.

Yes, if they work to pay for it.

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Originally Posted by Cixso

Sorry, just logged in after a few months.

You give up your rights for freedom. You do not lose your human rights, it is protected by law. Prison is not as what you describe. Prison is not about a 10x10 room etc for people who break the law to suffer. I think you're getting carried away.

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You're too soft.

I was born in the wrong era, I want people dead for committing hideous crimes, not free to walk in 7 years. Absolute ********.

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Originally Posted by Adam

You're too soft.

I was born in the wrong era, I want people dead for committing hideous crimes, not free to walk in 7 years. Absolute ********.

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Case in point; couple who trafficked a girl over a decade a go...

Husband committed; benefited fraud, human trafficking, 13 counts of rape... received 13 years
Wife committed; benefit fraud, human trafficking... received 5 years

You couldn't make it up.

I guess it would depend on the level of education they are receiving. The thing about many prisoners is they have it too good in there these days. They get fed quite good food (in Australia it showed a program on what food prisoners eat and the foods not that bad). They get pretty much everything provided for them. The negative about this is that when they come out they can't cope so they re-commit. I don't know how much an education can change a multi convicted prisoner? I think we should be more focused on children of our future.

I understand that some prisoners may not have been given a fair go through their upbringing. But, at the end of the day they have been put into prison for a reason. They are the only ones that can change their own actions.

I would understand maybe putting educators in children's prisons.

I also am undecided on how many prisoners would actually want to learn in prison?

- - - Updated - - -

Personally, as a taxpayer who is paying for what prisoners get; I don't think they deserve much. They should get the basics, not luxury. My dad used to be a commissioner in IT at corrective services and I went with him to a prison opening and the prisoners have it better than most people.

No, I feel they get treated pretty good in jail. 3 meals a day, tv etc

I think no matter what they have done, even if they haven taken someone else's human rights away, they still have the right to theirs (unfortunately) and one of the human rights is the right to an education. In addition to that, the world changes a lot in the time someone can be locked up. For example, look at the James Bulger killers, they were 2 10 year old boys and by the time one of them got out, he re-offended and it was to do with Child Pornography. I'm not condoning anything that they done because after all, it was completely wrong, but the fact that there was a case of re-offence shows that they didn't know better. They were kids, they weren't taught anything in prison and society changed while they were in prison. There's loads of other reasons why there should be education but my hands hurt from debating so much ;/

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Originally Posted by bkps

I think no matter what they have done, even if they haven taken someone else's human rights away, they still have the right to theirs (unfortunately) and one of the human rights is the right to an education. In addition to that, the world changes a lot in the time someone can be locked up. For example, look at the James Bulger killers, they were 2 10 year old boys and by the time one of them got out, he re-offended and it was to do with Child Pornography. I'm not condoning anything that they done because after all, it was completely wrong, but the fact that there was a case of re-offence shows that they didn't know better. They were kids, they weren't taught anything in prison and society changed while they were in prison. There's loads of other reasons why there should be education but my hands hurt from debating so much ;/

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Surely it's also a human right to be free and not locked up - so under this human rights argument, why not release them from prison? Doesn't add up.

Think it largely depends on the age and the crime the person committed. I think if they were fairly young and were jailed for something like erm... help can't think of example.. minor case of theft (I know all theft is bad, but let's say this was only £500 value) then there's always a possibility of educating them onto a different path and it wouldn't be too late to drive them away from a criminal career and if they were educated around 18/19 they might actually have a chance of being able to go down a different track in life. However, I think with continuous repeat offenders in their 30s+ I would find it pointless as they've kinda shown time and time again they're not willing to be beneficial to society so why should society help them?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Surely it's also a human right to be free and not locked up - so under this human rights argument, why not release them from prison? Doesn't add up.

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Yeah that is true it is a lose lose situation but at least with education that's 1 more right they have

I think they should be able to.

Putting it simply out there, we want to help stop crime and we want to get people to stop committing it.

If people are well educated and smart, they might be able to get a job, which will keep them off the streets and will keep them from doing any harm.

yes definitely. without the right education i don't think prisoners would allow themselves to change (..as much)

the skills that they learn would potentially allow them to do something good with their lives and give back to society

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Originally Posted by bkps

Yeah that is true it is a lose lose situation but at least with education that's 1 more right they have

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But the whole point of prison is that you are punished by losing your rights.

Not saying I don't agree with education in prison, just saying it shouldn't be classed as a 'right'. :P

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

But the whole point of prison is that you are punished by losing your rights.

Not saying I don't agree with education in prison, just saying it shouldn't be classed as a 'right'. :P

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i understand what you mean like yeah take away their rights but i dont think all their rights should be taken away, after all they are still humans

I think education would benefit prisoners greatly and is far more likely to see those prisoners change and not reoffend. I have read about Norwegian prisons and how they treat their prisoners and they have the lowest reoffending figures in Europe.
This article might be an interesting read:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ed-like-people

However you can argue that they are receiving a life of luxury rather then serving a sentence and I agree a line has to be drawn but I think its vital that prisoners are given the opportunity to learn and change rather then going in jail coming out having no beneficial skills which would force them back to crime.

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Originally Posted by [Jay]

I think education would benefit prisoners greatly and is far more likely to see those prisoners change and not reoffend. I have read about Norwegian prisons and how they treat their prisoners and they have the lowest reoffending figures in Europe.
This article might be an interesting read:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ed-like-people

However you can argue that they are receiving a life of luxury rather then serving a sentence and I agree a line has to be drawn but I think its vital that prisoners are given the opportunity to learn and change rather then going in jail coming out having no beneficial skills which would force them back to crime.

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The Norway stuff it total rubbish and here's why - you hear of these murderers being 'reintegrated' back into society but that ignores the fact that most murders are one-offs, ie a man has a grudge with another and it ends in murder. So the question therefore is only this - is he to be punished or not?

Yes, I think they should definitely have an education in prison so when they get out they know what to do, if you get me lol.
Spending loads of time in one cell is not a nice feeling, but they have the benefit of the doubt to learn from their mistakes, but even so they probably won't know what to do or what to say, because you'd obv forget stuff whilst being in prison, it isn't wake up everyday to find your blackboard in front of you and a teacher telling yo what to do x

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Originally Posted by Barbai

Yes, I think they should definitely have an education in prison so when they get out they know what to do, if you get me lol.
Spending loads of time in one cell is not a nice feeling, but they have the benefit of the doubt to learn from their mistakes, but even so they probably won't know what to do or what to say, because you'd obv forget stuff whilst being in prison, it isn't wake up everyday to find your blackboard in front of you and a teacher telling yo what to do x

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It's not meant to be a pleasure.

Ok, human rights state you are entitled to an education, there for this is going to be going towards yes they should have an education in prison. Why shouldn't they? If they don't have an education what is the likely hood of them getting a job (it does happen) people can get jobs even after they've gone to prison depending on the offensive. If prisoners are going to be prisoners they need to have some sort of humanity left in them to be able to still have an inner relation to the outside world! Whoever says they shouldn't get an education should think about if they didn't have an education, what would you be doing right here right now? You might not be able to even go on the computer that you're using right now!
The prisoners should be given something to do whilst they serve their sentence as if they didn't and just got let out for breakfast, lunch, dinner and exercises then they would lead a boring life, not that this is the aim but they should be given an extra thing to do to let them out of the YxY cell.
So yeah I am all in for letting them having an education whilst in prison!

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Originally Posted by JamesSparky

Ok, human rights state you are entitled to an education, there for this is going to be going towards yes they should have an education in prison. Why shouldn't they? If they don't have an education what is the likely hood of them getting a job (it does happen) people can get jobs even after they've gone to prison depending on the offensive. If prisoners are going to be prisoners they need to have some sort of humanity left in them to be able to still have an inner relation to the outside world! Whoever says they shouldn't get an education should think about if they didn't have an education, what would you be doing right here right now? You might not be able to even go on the computer that you're using right now!
The prisoners should be given something to do whilst they serve their sentence as if they didn't and just got let out for breakfast, lunch, dinner and exercises then they would lead a boring life, not that this is the aim but they should be given an extra thing to do to let them out of the YxY cell.
So yeah I am all in for letting them having an education whilst in prison!

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Good, and maybe they could work? Why should even more of my taxes go towards prisoners?

We had this discussion on the Chatathon on HabboxLive and i personally feel everyone is entitled to an education no matter their age. Although, it'll be a bit difficult if the person is in prison for life sentence simply because most people try to get an education to get a good job or get the career they really want, so if for example a person is in prison for life they won't have the privilege to getting a job or even achieve anything they want to because of their situation.

Prisoners are just similar people like us. We get educated, what is stopping them.