Bring Casino's Back Petition

Hi Guys,

I'm writing this post today as I don't think enough was done or for long enough by habbo users to attempt to undo the dice limitation ban put into place and for me it has regrettably ruined what was a great habbo experience for many long years.

So I have set up a facebook page located at: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-Back-Habbo-Casinos/309840855851538

Which I hope I can get enough likes on to build up an audience and eventually through whatever legal means necessary force habbo's hands into allowing dice-related games to continue.

If we manage to achieve this aim I plan to keep the page functional as a sort of user "trade union" so to speak.

I would appreciate if you could help by sharing and liking the page.

Hopefully we can get enough support to make a change!

Regards,
Ben.

It's not going to happen:

a) Sulake hold all the cards
b) It's a legal issue

lmfao what did they do to dice?

i thought they just made casinos change their name to arcades

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Originally Posted by Futz

lmfao what did they do to dice?

i thought they just made casinos change their name to arcades

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Sulake never made casinos change their names to arcades.

There were new mods who thought casinos were against the habbo way and started banning people with them. Due to this, people got scared and started changing casino names to arcades, but there was no reason to--it was a mistake and people who were banned were eventually unbanned.

Very recently they've put a two functioning dice limit and banned casinos due to, very likely, the new habbo app for phones. If they were still there, they'd have to make the apps 18+.

Sorry I don't casinos back so no.

no thanks

lmfao that's terrible

must of pissed so many people off

when I was in sixth form I made some nice side cash through dealing, and there were a few people who made a lot more through it too

why are habbo destroying their own game lmaooooo

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

It's not going to happen:

a) Sulake hold all the cards
b) It's a legal issue

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Firstly the primary and as far as I'm concerned ONLY reason habbo closed casino's (also been told by staff) was because of credit card fraud, an issue which had been going on for a long time and was dealt with for a long time. I'm not a legal expert but I imagine little legal responsibility could be attributed to them with all the right disclaimers in place and therefore I assume it was the attributing dedication of resources in proportion to what casinos brought back to the game (e.g. profits for sulake).

There is very little legal precedence to suggest that casinos or any dice-related game on habbo for that matter can be called legally as "gambling". I point you in the direction of Puzzle Pirates which has an even younger demographic, is on the app store and features many casino based games such as poker etc.

The whole "The ban was because of the migration to the app store and apple devices" I assure you is just urban myth.

Your point a) is more accurate which is why I wanted to create this page as it is external and habbo wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

I believe that if I got a big enough audience then through means of negative publicity, we could convince habbo it was in their best interest to reverse the dice-ban.

By negative publicity I mean things like:

- Further exposing of the channel 4 investigation
- Writing to current and potential shareholders
- Exposing potentially illegal ad-placements and suspending an important source of revenue
- Convincing users not to buy credits over a duration

etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benz

There is very little legal precedence to suggest that casinos or any dice-related game on habbo for that matter can be called legally as "gambling". I point you in the direction of Puzzle Pirates which has an even younger demographic, is on the app store and features many casino based games such as poker etc.

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There's very little reason for them taking unnecessary risk.

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Originally Posted by Chippiewill

There's very little reason for them taking unnecessary risk.

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Normally yes, but legally the risk as far as I understand it is so small I don't even think it would have factored into the decision making process.

Like I said the main reason is attributed to credit card fraud.

Minors gambling is illegal. Now Sulake have extended their reach into mobile gaming they can't get away with it anymore because Apple will never turn a blind eye to it.

All these petitions are getting old. Just move on, once again minors gambling is illegal. I'm not sure what people like OP don't understand about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daltron

Minors gambling is illegal. Now Sulake have extended their reach into mobile gaming they can't get away with it anymore because Apple will never turn a blind eye to it.

All these petitions are getting old. Just move on, once again minors gambling is illegal. I'm not sure what people like OP don't understand about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yes minor gambling is illegal.

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, NO.

Gambling as far as its definition is concerned legally or otherwise as I've repeatedly expressed is for items of monetary value. Habbo coins or furniture do not directly constitute this and therefore it is 100% LEGAL.

With regards to Apple iStore T&C's the same applies and thus (as I've said previously) examples can be seen in similar young demographic games where often even more prominent 'casino' based games exist which have been promoted and developed by the game creators themselves. Puzzle Pirates a named example currently in the iStore.

Any suggestion that Habbo removed dice-based games and I again repeat that these are dice-based games encompassing not only the activities of casino's but other games that do not involve apparent 'gambling' game-play as a result of a threat of legal prosecution or entry to the app store is just ludicrous.

So please read my posts before spurting out non-sense. In the full sense of irony I'm not sure what people like you don't understand about that.

P.S. I bet you supported Kass on Survivor too.

I'm not even mad Casino's are gone...
Good riddance. They were just prone to scammers and cheap tricksters. They never ended well.

Sure, it got rid of a lot of the player base, but most of the casino's people were such big headed k**** anyway I don't even miss them.
Like I said, good riddance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benz

Yes minor gambling is illegal.

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, NO.

Gambling as far as its definition is concerned legally or otherwise as I've repeatedly expressed is for items of monetary value. Habbo coins or furniture do not directly constitute this and therefore it is 100% LEGAL.

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not true...

please explain exactly how this puzzle pirates is gambling

The ship has sailed. It's time for you and others to accept the fact casinos/gambling aren't coming back and move on.

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Originally Posted by Jellyfish

not true...

please explain exactly how this puzzle pirates is gambling

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Puzzle Pirates (At least when i touched it last a year or so ago) allowed players to play Poker, Spades, hearts etc with their in game currency. Just as habbo was allowing with Casinos/Arcades.
I guess that is his point?

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Originally Posted by Jellyfish

not true...

please explain exactly how this puzzle pirates is gambling

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It is very true for the reasons I explained in the post.

and yes as @RedClifford puts it.

Tbh I just want the dice limit lifted lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benz

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, [U][B]NO.

P.S. I bet you supported Kass on Survivor too.

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Are you delusional? Of course casinos on habbo are a form of gambling. You bet an item with a random risk of winning or losing.

And yes. Kass was the queen of Cagayan and we were robbed of an amazing jury speech and a deserving winner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm going to agree with the majority in this thread and say that it is a form of gambling. Minors are not allowed to gamble and I doubt they would have been able to release their iOS application without removing casinos.

A petition will do nothing to bring casinos back. Sulake are horrific at actually listening to their community anyway. Even a simple thing like investigating a ban is usually a long drawn-out process with no outcome.

It wouldn't be a problem if users didn't ave to purchase credits for real money, if you earned the credits from things like; online time, winning mini-games etc... It would be fine to allow them to return.

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Originally Posted by lRhyss

It wouldn't be a problem if users didn't ave to purchase credits for real money, if you earned the credits from things like; online time, winning mini-games etc... It would be fine to allow them to return.

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Which we all know isn't going to happen :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benz

Yes minor gambling is illegal.

Are Casino's on habbo considered as gambling, NO.

Gambling as far as its definition is concerned legally or otherwise as I've repeatedly expressed is for items of monetary value. Habbo coins or furniture do not directly constitute this and therefore it is 100% LEGAL.

With regards to Apple iStore T&C's the same applies and thus (as I've said previously) examples can be seen in similar young demographic games where often even more prominent 'casino' based games exist which have been promoted and developed by the game creators themselves. Puzzle Pirates a named example currently in the iStore.

Any suggestion that Habbo removed dice-based games and I again repeat that these are dice-based games encompassing not only the activities of casino's but other games that do not involve apparent 'gambling' game-play as a result of a threat of legal prosecution or entry to the app store is just ludicrous.

So please read my posts before spurting out non-sense. In the full sense of irony I'm not sure what people like you don't understand about that.

P.S. I bet you supported Kass on Survivor too.

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Underage people buy coins
they use these coins to gamble in casinos with the possibility to lose them & the money they spent, therefore it is gambling.

Oxford dictionary definition of gambling in case you're unaware:

Quote:

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Definition of gamble in English:

gamble

VERB
Play games of chance for money;

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Casinos won't be unbanned. please move on.

Why the hell should we allow kids to gamble money on an onilne game so that you 46 year old morons can take precious credits from them?

Its gambling, Yes, BUT! i dont see why its a problem for 13/14 year old to do it on habbo? Ok its not the best practice for later life but its not as if anyone forces you to bet your coins, after all they are supposed to have no monetary value so its no Illegal per-say. Its a shame they went and they wont ever return! It heads off into the Habbo in the sky with the Lido, Infobus and now The casino! Well done sulake! Yet another BLUNDER!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Premplus480

Its gambling, Yes, BUT! i dont see why its a problem for 13/14 year old to do it on habbo? Ok its not the best practice for later life but its not as if anyone forces you to bet your coins, after all they are supposed to have no monetary value so its no Illegal per-say. Its a shame they went and they wont ever return! It heads off into the Habbo in the sky with the Lido, Infobus and now The casino! Well done sulake! Yet another BLUNDER!

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You buy credits with money in real-life then gamble the credits in casino rooms? It is illegal.

That's like an underage better going into a casino and exchanging real-life money for casino chips and then gambling with those chips at the various games in the casino.

What is the difference between that and what happened on Habbo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedClifford

Puzzle Pirates (At least when i touched it last a year or so ago) allowed players to play Poker, Spades, hearts etc with their in game currency. Just as habbo was allowing with Casinos/Arcades.
I guess that is his point?

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is in game currency in puzzle pirates bought or earned

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Originally Posted by Jellyfish

is in game currency in puzzle pirates bought or earned

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Both. You have the option to buy and earn.

Go play Zynga Poker and shut the hell up.

I use to go to casinos and I'm happy they're gone less scamming and hacking to deal with the only problem I don't like about is
the dice limit..

pple need to let this go lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benz

Firstly the primary and as far as I'm concerned ONLY reason habbo closed casino's (also been told by staff) was because of credit card fraud, an issue which had been going on for a long time and was dealt with for a long time. I'm not a legal expert but I imagine little legal responsibility could be attributed to them with all the right disclaimers in place and therefore I assume it was the attributing dedication of resources in proportion to what casinos brought back to the game (e.g. profits for sulake).

There is very little legal precedence to suggest that casinos or any dice-related game on habbo for that matter can be called legally as "gambling". I point you in the direction of Puzzle Pirates which has an even younger demographic, is on the app store and features many casino based games such as poker etc.

The whole "The ban was because of the migration to the app store and apple devices" I assure you is just urban myth.

Your point a) is more accurate which is why I wanted to create this page as it is external and habbo wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

I believe that if I got a big enough audience then through means of negative publicity, we could convince habbo it was in their best interest to reverse the dice-ban.

By negative publicity I mean things like:

- Further exposing of the channel 4 investigation
- Writing to current and potential shareholders
- Exposing potentially illegal ad-placements and suspending an important source of revenue
- Convincing users not to buy credits over a duration

etc.

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Hey, it's great to see you're so passionate about Habbo and its economy. Seriously, Habbo needs more people who are willing to stand up and say what they think. However, I think you may have been slightly misinformed about a couple of things.

First of all, credit card fraud really doesn't have much to do with why gambling and casinos were banned. Credit card fraud will continue to happen as long as credits are still available to buy. Removing gambling may have slightly decreased the number of cases, but Sulake wasn't really interested in this.
They decided to ban gambling because Apple would never let them have an app for Habbo if they were encouraging people as young as thirteen to "gamble". As other people have said, casinos on Habbo ARE gambling as you buy credits which you then use to gamble (much like buying chips to gamble with in a real life casino).
I don't know much about Puzzle Pirates, but I assume there was a reason for Apple to let gambling be a part of the game. Is it multiplayer or single player? If you're gambling against a machine and not another person, the rules may be different.

Habbo obviously had to put quite a bit of thought into whether or not to ban gambling. It would lose them a lot of users AND a lot of money (as gamblers would no longer need credits to fund their gambling). So they clearly think that getting Habbo an app will make them more money than the gamblers were.

I'd also just like to point out that it's possible your negative publicity ideas may not have the effect you want. Exposing the Channel 4 investigation may just lead to Habbo having another month(ish) long mute. Or worse, they may end up having to shut Habbo down entirely!
Convincing users not to buy credits for a while is also a bit of a dodgy one. I doubt you'd be able to convince the majority of users not to buy credits (either because they don't hear about it or because they don't support your idea) so Habbo wouldn't really be losing out. Plus, "over a duration" means that eventually people would go back to buying credits and everything would go back to exactly how it was.

I like the idea of writing to shareholders, though. I'd be interested to see how that one turns out if you were to go ahead with it :)

So yeah, I'm not going to support the petition. Partly because I never went to casinos so that doesn't affect me, and partly because I don't think it's okay for underage people to gamble under ANY circumstances.

Anyway, like I said, it's brilliant to see you so interested in Habbo. Even if this doesn't work out, keep it up :P

Again, Go play Zynga Poker you morons.

Stop trying to bring them back so you can scam kids again.

@Empired I appreciate your thoughts on the subject and I agree 100% about what you said about the fraud situation which is what infuriates me so much as from what I understand (habbo staff have told) it was the only reason why the dice-ban came into effect, but I suppose with so many stories out there it's almost impossible to confirm.

I also agree with a-lot of what you said about the methods I referenced and just to clarify if this idea even does get enough support I doubt we would attempt such aggressive strategies.

For the record Puzzle Pirates is a multiplayer game with similar in-game credit purchases and even more prominent casino games like in-built poker tables. Furthermore I am 90% sure that the apple store was not, at-least a significant reason for the dice-ban but again I suppose this is up for debate.

For everyone else insisting that the casino based activities that took place on habbo were and can be considered 'gambling' legally I challenge you to find me any legal precedence of a similar case, because I highly doubt you will find one. The legal definition explicitly states that it must be for items of value, habbo coins do not constitute this directly. I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself.

@Viba you told me this:

"Underage people buy coins
they use these coins to gamble in casinos with the possibility to lose them & the money they spent, therefore it is gambling.

Oxford dictionary definition of gambling in case you're unaware:


Definition of gamble in English:

gamble

VERB
Play games of chance for money;


Casinos won't be unbanned. please move on."

I don't mean to be rude but are you dumb? You quoted me a definition that just proves my point.. that gambling is to "play games of chance for money"

Habbo credits are considered virtual and not a commodity, currency or anything of value.

The same goes to @Zak who said:

"You buy credits with money in real-life then gamble the credits in casino rooms? It is illegal. "

Please just read my posts as that is not the definition of gambling. People clearly have some misconceived conception of this.

To everyone who is happy that casinos are gone, fair enough I know we weren't exactly the most likely bunch.

buy in= not gambling
potential to cash out = gambling

as habbo->irl trading was rife in casinos it makes it gambling.

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Originally Posted by Jellyfish

buy in= not gambling
potential to cash out = gambling

as habbo->irl trading was rife in casinos it makes it gambling.

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Finally a sensible argument.

The problem with this is firstly that habbo covers itself legally in part through its disclaimers that prohibit the sale of credits by users.

Secondly, similarly and more importantly because it is an indirect trade habbo has no control over it therefore it is not legally their responsibility. In order to prosecute habbo for under-age gambling it would require a whole new legal precedent which would set the bar for pretty much any game of chance where there is a multiplayer trading aspect which would affect the entire industry and is also highly unlikely to ever be passed in the first place due to the lack of control game-developers have over it.

So again currently it is not considered gambling and is very unlikely to ever be considered that.

Are you done? Good.

Back to the original point of this thread, clearly 80% of the people who have posted disagree with casinos and know they won't be coming back, therefore the petition is a waste of time and effort. Nobody wants to help you get casinos back just so you can continue selling things you get from underage people on a black market.
Good luck though.

Going back to my original post Benz.

If a 14 year old child walked into a casino and managed to exchange their money for casino chips and then went on to play games in the casino using those chips, do you think that would be classed as gambling? Of course it would.

That is in no way different to exchanging your money for Habbo credits then betting in various games of chance. This is what I think anyway.

Besides loads of people sold their casino earnings on line. Isn't that right @Soy; haha

the petition has 2 likes ..

They won't come back, and I'm glad they won't - full of scammers, black market traders & a hangout for the dark side.