LBGTXYZ Group: Boarding schools should introduce 'gender neutral' uniforms

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...-bullying.html

Boarding schools told to introduce gender-neutral uniforms to prevent LBGT bullying

• Elly Barnes is CEO and founder of LGBT charity Educate & Celebrate
  
• Spoke at a conference with the Boarding Schools Administration about making schools more LGBT friendly
  
• Introduction of gender-neutral uniform would reduce bullying, she says

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/...1252003392.jpg

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Originally Posted by Daily Mail

Boarding schools in the UK may soon adopt gender-neutral uniforms in order to prevent discrimination against LGBT students. At a conference with the Boarding Schools Administration on Wednesday, Elly Barnes, a writer and LGBT Schools Advisor, explained that schools need to be more LGBT-friendly - even when it comes to their dress code. She told the Independent: 'If it's all right for a girl to wear trousers, why should a boy not be allowed to wear a skirt. We should be giving them the option.'

Ms Barnes also called for teachers to be trained in how to be more inclusive and comfortable with the language associated with the gay and lesbian community. This includes educating children about families with same-sex parents as well as discouraging the use of LGBT terms as insults. She said: 'If a pupil says "my pen's run out, it’s so gay", you should challenge it. "My pen’s so Jewish, my pen’s so black", you wouldn’t be allowed to say it.' Ms Barnes added that bullying on the basis of sexuality is just as bad as racist or sexist bullying, and should be treated as such.

Julie Bremner, head of media at Educate and Celebrate, a charity run by Ms Barnes, told the MailOnline that the movement is heading in the right direction. She said: 'So far we have received very positive responses and this is an issue that can be raised and taken back to governors and leadership teams for further discussion.' The uniform reform is just one initiative promoted by Educate and Celebrate, which draws on Ms Barnes' experience as a teacher to train and provide resources for teachers in relation to their LGBT students.

In March, the charity was one of eight national organisations which successfully bid for government funding to tackle homophobic bullying in schools. Each organisation was awarded a share of £2million towards helping prevent and eradicate homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying. Minister for Women and Equalities Jo Swinson, who announced the funding, said in a release: 'The trauma of being bullied at school can stay with you for life, and it is absolutely unacceptable that those who may be gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender are being targeted.

'Teachers need specialist support and training to help them stamp out homophobic bullying, which is why we have funded these excellent projects which are designed to tackle this issue head on.' According to Metro's 2014 Youth Chances Survey, more than half of gay young people have experienced either harassment or discrimination. And lobby group Stonewall found last year that 86per cent of secondary school teachers and 45per cent of primary school teachers said pupils at their school had experienced homophobic bullying.

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My first thought other than what a fruitloop was I hope this group isn't recieving any taxpayer funding, which when I read on it was. Why are millions being wasted on these nuttier than squirrel **** so-called charities? End all state funding for the lot of them and end it now.

But here's two points;

1) Boys should dress like boys and girls like girls. A boy dressed in a dress looks ridiculous and is asking to be bullied.
2) Bullying/insults like "that's so gay" is part of character building in school which toughens you up for the real world. That's life.

If my child went to a school that pushed this LGBTXYZ crap I would be up there giving them an earful. I send my children to school to learn maths and english - which a lot of schools can't even manage nowadays with huge percentages not achieving either - not to have them lectured to by social marxist creeps in Stonewall on how it's alright to wear a dress and not alright to say "that's so gay".

Then again if I ever have kids, the way it's going by the time I had them i'd be sent off to a New Labour re-education camp.

Thoughts?

How come it's ok to be casually homophobic and say "that's so gay" but racism is completely out of the question? I find that very much a double standard.

Schools should have a set list of clothing that all pupils are and aren't allowed to wear and ALL items on the list are available to everyone. Maybe they will get bullied but if they wanna do it anyway then let them?? Not my problem.
If boys want to wear skirts, let them wear skirts. Personally I don't see why they'd want to because skirts are a ******* nuisance especially in the wind and even when it's not that windy there's ALWAYS a terrible draught around your crotch ugh.

Skirts are impractical anyway in most workplaces, just make it all trousers if you want to try de-gendering the clothes and leave it at that. You can then buy whatever trousers fit your body shape and the same with shirts, it can all be a UNIform ie one dress, and then surely everyone wins. Except for the kids who want to wear their own stuff but shut up you're like 6 and uniforms are important in schools. Simple. Sorted.

But of course we need to have an argument because that's how Habbox works so idk what can I attack errr oh ok
"Boys should dress like boys and girls like girls" do you by this mean that you believe that there is an innate sense of gendered dress?

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Originally Posted by FlyingJesus

But of course we need to have an argument because that's how Habbox works so idk what can I attack errr oh ok
"Boys should dress like boys and girls like girls" do you by this mean that you believe that there is an innate sense of gendered dress?

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I think it stands well as a statement really.

If you turned up in a skirt I would be like "Tom why are you wearing a skirt" or i'd laugh. Because boys don't wear skirts.

men have worn dresses for hundreds of years so that argument is void and "that's so gay" perpetuates the idea that gay=bad and straight=good because it is said about bad things.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

men have worn dresses for hundreds of years so that argument is void

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yeah but they don't now and we live now and not in a 1400's Catholic monastery.

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Originally Posted by Kyle

and "that's so gay" perpetuates the idea that gay=bad and straight=good because it is said about bad things.

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that's such a gay way of looking at things.

But they do :P Anyway you are just talking about an effect of socialisation as though it were a natural instinct. As something of a dress historian I can tell you that "dressing like a boy/girl" changes all the time, there is no natural set template for what a person wears. I'm not trying to suggest to you that we should have a Habbox Gentleman's Party where we buy glitzy sequin dresses in spite of our sex because as fabulous as that would be it's not very practical and rebellion for rebellion's sake is stupid (see: idiots in London the last couple of days), I'm just challenging your statement that there are ways that boys and girls must dress because of their sex

Agree with you on the gender-neutral dress, Dan. Absolutely ridiculous. Boy and girls are different. People need to accept that.

However, I disagree that the phrase 'that's so gay' is fine, for the reason that Kyle highlighted.

It's only 'life' because a lot of people accept it.

If a trans student wants to wear the male uniform they should be able to though with confidence that the school will protect them from bullying. But since they are allowed to wear their chosen uniform so should everyone else, if girls want to wear a skirt that's okay.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Then again if I ever have kids, the way it's going by the time I had them i'd be sent off to a New Labour re-education camp.

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Better than studying a UKIP climatology course

Show Hide

http://www.newsfoxsatire.com/wp-cont...14/05/ukip.jpg

More on-topic: I don't think gender neutral uniforms will be a bad thing. It just emphasises equality mroe i guess, which is never a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Aiden

It's only 'life' because a lot of people accept it.

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@conservative;

Uh, why shouldn't they? It's a word or a phrase that's quite funny.

I still use it. Should the Police knock on my door as a result?

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Originally Posted by Aiden

If a trans student wants to wear the male uniform they should be able to though with confidence that the school will protect them from bullying. But since they are allowed to wear their chosen uniform so should everyone else, if girls want to wear a skirt that's okay.

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If a trans student aka a bloke wearing a dress comes into school in a dress and a pearl neckless, I would find that hiliarious. Sorry, but it'd look ridiculous and I don't see why I should have to pretend that is in any way normal or not funny. Should I then be punished for 'bullying' that student?

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Originally Posted by Jamez

More on-topic: I don't think gender neutral uniforms will be a bad thing. It just emphasises equality mroe i guess, which is never a bad thing.

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What is the insane obsession with equality when things aren't equal?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

What is the insane obsession with equality when things aren't equal?

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I'm not obsessed? lol. I said it's never a bad thing. I wasn't exactly like EQUALITY IS LIFE IT MUST BE DONE OR WE'LL DIE TOMORROW

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

If a trans student aka a bloke wearing a dress comes into school in a dress and a pearl neckless, I would find that hiliarious. Sorry, but it'd look ridiculous and I don't see why I should have to pretend that is in any way normal or not funny. Should I then be punished for 'bullying' that student?

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Seems like you're trying to ask that question to make us all open our eyes to just how stupid we've been, but it hasn't really worked because the answer is- depending on how far you take your reactions- yes.

Also just so we can all be clear, can you define a "normal" world for me? Define what you see to be a "normal" human being in as much detail as possible. Please note that I asked for your definition of what you think is normal, not what isn't. You seem to spend a lot of time telling people what you find unacceptable, but I've never really been able to find out what is acceptable in your head.

You talk about all these minority groups as "not normal" and "unnatural" so I'd be interested to see what you do class as normal. If you can so easily throw groups out of the category of normality, the only explanation I can come up with for why you'd do that is that you have an sort of "ideal human" in your head that you need people to fit in with. And if they're too far away from that then, what, they can't be human?

Explain please.

I love how people like @Empired; try to be deep and question exactly what normal is as though there are no established cultural norms.

If you can't see that a bloke wearing his mothers dress and lippy isn't normal then we've lost you to tumblr.

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Originally Posted by Jamez

I'm not obsessed? lol. I said it's never a bad thing. I wasn't exactly like EQUALITY IS LIFE IT MUST BE DONE OR WE'LL DIE TOMORROW

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But equality is a bad thing when what are being treated as equal are not equal.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

But equality is a bad thing when what are being treated as equal are not equal.

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Sometimes I wonder if you do this on purpose, just for arguments sake, or whether you actually are a ****.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I love how people like @Empired; try to be deep and question exactly what normal is as though there are no established cultural norms.

If you can't see that a bloke wearing his mothers dress and lippy isn't normal then we've lost you to tumblr.

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If there are no established cultural norms then how can there be "abnormalities"? Unless you mean like there can't be a normal skin colour. In which case, I don't see how there is no normal skin colour but a normal sexuality and gender identity.

Also I noticed you ignored all of my questions and tried to get everyone else on your side with a pretty weak response which was pretty much "haha how dumb is Empired everyone amirite lol"

@Jamez; sometimes.

@Empired; I didn't say there are no cultural norms, I said you were implying there are none by asking what normal is when normal by any standard definition doesn't include lads wearing dresses. I answered your question and defined normal for you: something that doesn't include blokes wearing their girlfriends stockings because that isn't normal and I don't understand why everybody should be stampeded into pretending that that is normal in any shape or form.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

@Jamez; sometimes.

@Empired; I didn't say there are no cultural norms, I said you were implying there are none by asking what normal is when normal by any standard definition doesn't include lads wearing dresses. I answered your question and defined normal for you: something that doesn't include blokes wearing their girlfriends stockings because that isn't normal and I don't understand why everybody should be stampeded into pretending that that is normal in any shape or form.

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I specifically asked you to come up with what is normal, not what isn't and you seem to be incapable of offering me an answer without contradicting what you're currently saying. If the answer is that there is no set structure for normality, then using exactly the same logic there should be no set structure for abnormality as well?

Why is it that your opinion is automatically correct?
You mock practically everyone that isn't yourself and hide behind the facade of a debate. If you have such strong beliefs, isn't the decent thing to do, not go out of your way to humiliate someone in public?
Are females still in the boundary of having to wear dresses and domesticity? Are we not to wear trousers for fear of being laughed at?
While you may not approve of trans dress wear choices, surely the decent and human thing to do is to keep that opinion to yourself.
Whenever you boast an opinion such as equality being a bad thing, I feel like I'm surrounded by WASPs; just saying, their dress choice favoured the feminine side, long pure white dress.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

@conservative;

Uh, why shouldn't they? It's a word or a phrase that's quite funny.

I still use it. Should the Police knock on my door as a result?



If a trans student aka a bloke wearing a dress comes into school in a dress and a pearl neckless, I would find that hiliarious. Sorry, but it'd look ridiculous and I don't see why I should have to pretend that is in any way normal or not funny. Should I then be punished for 'bullying' that student?



What is the insane obsession with equality when things aren't equal?

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So because in your opinion a word is funny, it is fine to use it?

In which case, you are a ****. Is that funny too? :P

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Originally Posted by Empired

I specifically asked you to come up with what is normal, not what isn't and you seem to be incapable of offering me an answer without contradicting what you're currently saying. If the answer is that there is no set structure for normality, then using exactly the same logic there should be no set structure for abnormality as well?

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No, I said there obviously is a structure of normality whereas you seem to think there isn't.

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Originally Posted by Zealoux

Why is it that your opinion is automatically correct?

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What kind of a question is that? :S

Obviously I think my opinion is correct otherwise I wouldn't have it as an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Zealoux

You mock practically everyone that isn't yourself and hide behind the facade of a debate.

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A basic part of humour is to make fun of and laugh at differences.

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Originally Posted by Zealoux

If you have such strong beliefs, isn't the decent thing to do, not go out of your way to humiliate someone in public?

Are females still in the boundary of having to wear dresses and domesticity? Are we not to wear trousers for fear of being laughed at?
While you may not approve of trans dress wear choices, surely the decent and human thing to do is to keep that opinion to yourself.

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Why should I keep it to myself? Social Justice Warriors like yourself can't wait to punish everybody who doesn't accept their tumblr version of reality and ironically can't wait to criticise white, straight men for all the ills of the world just like you did below with the WASP comment.

The biggest shower of hypocrites on the planet.

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Originally Posted by Zealoux

Whenever you boast an opinion such as equality being a bad thing

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Equality is a myth as we are not all equal.

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Originally Posted by Zealoux

I feel like I'm surrounded by WASPs; just saying, their dress choice favoured the feminine side, long pure white dress.

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Ohhhh, and that's a bad thing is it even though it's those nasty evil wasps who created virtually the entire society you live in?

I'm a non-dress wearing WASP and proud.

Oh poor you, a humble taxpayer having to not pay for students to feel comfortable in what they're wearing, oh how sorry I feel for you. I'm really sorry people are making progress and modern changes to a school system that you have nothing to do with.

This is a good change and another step towards acceptance and equality and I hope it will positively affect the way students view themselves and others also I hope in the long term it may make the school system a more accepting place to learn

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

No, I said there obviously is a structure of normality whereas you seem to think there isn't.

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Then tell me what it is.

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Obviously I think my opinion is correct otherwise I wouldn't have it as an opinion.

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Doesn't mean you shouldn't value other peoples' opinions. Perhaps if you stopped insulting the people you were trying to persuade we might be more willing to see things from your perspective. If you weren't so obnoxious I might agree with the odd point of yours, but your total lack of respect for anyone other than yourself, a select few other people and, of course, His Royal Highness Nigel Farage (and oh how well that turned out) I don't wish to be associated with anything you have to say.

If you want people to listen to your opinions, don't be such a douche. If you don't care if people listen to your opinions, why are you here? What is the point in posting in a Habbo-based forum primarily for teenagers if you're just here to force your opinions down others' throats and then leave?

Oh wait nevermind. Urban Dictionary puts it quite nicely:
Trolling: Being a ***** on the internet just because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.

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A basic part of humour is to make fun of and laugh at differences.

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You're almost exactly right but the point is that everyone should be laughing. If you're laughing at someone and they're not laughing back, that is not humour. That is you being a ****.

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Equality is a myth as we are not all equal.

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But there's still a difference between accepting that we're not all equal and using our differences to strengthen ourselves as a whole, and using the fact that we're not all equal as an excuse to act superior to other groups.

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What kind of a question is that? :S

Obviously I think my opinion is correct otherwise I wouldn't have it as an opinion.

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It's the forceful way you put it across though, there is no leverage with you.

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A basic part of humour is to make fun of and laugh at differences.

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It's also a basic part of nature to be civil.

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Why should I keep it to myself? Social Justice Warriors like yourself can't wait to punish everybody who doesn't accept their tumblr version of reality and ironically can't wait to criticise white, straight men for all the ills of the world just like you did below with the WASP comment.

The biggest shower of hypocrites on the planet.

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I'm glad you asked such a question. Why should you? Why on earth should people not wear what they like? Why are they governed by the likes of people like you? If you can't do it, why should they?
I've never been called a SJW before, fun. You take me for someone who forces my opinions on someone on a regular basis, but alas, I do not. I refrain, just like you should attempt. I fell into your wormhole of a challenge. I know there is no way I can change your opinion on any matter, but I fell for it anyway.

Me calling you a WASP wasn't in relation to race or sexual orientation actually (although I should have explained this before), it was to do with your outdated views of reality. Your superiority complex based on wasp exterior doesn't aid my argument.

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Equality is a myth as we are not all equal.

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Isn't the aim to justify that? It may not be currently, but that's the goal.

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Ohhhh, and that's a bad thing is it even though it's those nasty evil wasps who created virtually the entire society you live in?

I'm a non-dress wearing WASP and proud.

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I'm not disputing that. -.-
As I've said before, I don't particularly care for dabbling in social injustices, but it gets to the point where your constant drabble becomes too much. You weren't apart of those nasty little wasps, you hold no power. You can strive to be like them, but in this day and age it only gets you so far, like you said, you're opposed by social justice warriors, who will always prevent your opinion from holding.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

@conservative;

Uh, why shouldn't they? It's a word or a phrase that's quite funny.

I still use it. Should the Police knock on my door as a result?



If a trans student aka a bloke wearing a dress comes into school in a dress and a pearl neckless, I would find that hiliarious. Sorry, but it'd look ridiculous and I don't see why I should have to pretend that is in any way normal or not funny. Should I then be punished for 'bullying' that student?



What is the insane obsession with equality when things aren't equal?

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From the time on this forum I see that your opinions have changed very little so there's no reason actually giving a thoughtful response! All I hope is that as time goes on people like you become less and less and start caring more about their own lives than others who aren't bothering you.

Two points: First of all on 'Gender neutral' uniforms. I think uniform should be gender neutral, in that males and females both have the same privileges. From my experience in schools, males seem to be the ones missing out. Females can happily wear skits and trousers, males are stuck with trousers. Perfectly fine until you reach the summer and all of a sudden wearing black trousers isn't exactly comfortable anymore. Now, I'm not proposing that boys wear skirts, that's not the point of the argument, but allowing boys to wear shorts would be acceptable in my eyes.

I think there was a case with male train drivers(?) where they wanted to wear something more comfortable, were not allowed shorts, but skirts were perfectly within the uniform, so they wore skirts to work.

Second of all, use of the word 'gay' as an insult. During teacher training we have a session on homophobia within schools and it really is a big issue, mainly because it's not tackled in the same way as other types of verbal abuse. The word gay is allowed to be used in school as long as you're using it in the correct context. Students can easily talk about how gay Graham Norton is, but they cannot talk about how gay their pen is, e.g. 'My pen ran out, it's so gay', that's obviously using the word 'gay' in a negative connotation and it's not acceptable.

And @-:Undertaker:-; I really disagree with...

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Bullying/insults like "that's so gay" is part of character building in school which toughens you up for the real world. That's life.

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Basically you're saying that bullying is perfectly acceptable and fine. Don't be so ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Should I then be punished for 'bullying' that student?

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Well, yes. If bullying's against the rules then it's against the rules no matter how funny you think it is, not a very good point you're making here. I find it hilarious that people still think prehistoric hunter-gatherer roles should determine the acts and decisions of a civilised people with regards to luxury items and leisure activities, but I don't go around attacking anyone for it and saying they can't do as they please within the law

Children will be arse holes whether you wear a skirt or trousers.

Just eliminate skirts if you must - they're impractical for play time and don't really achieve anything. Heck, many public and state schools already have gender-neutral -obviously-there-to-make-you-all-look-uniformed uniforms for ages, yet children are still bullied for looking weird. Shave all their hair off, surgically remove freckles and you may be closer to eliminate bullying. It will never disappear as [see first sentence].

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

No, I said there obviously is a structure of normality whereas you seem to think there isn't.



What kind of a question is that? :S

Obviously I think my opinion is correct otherwise I wouldn't have it as an opinion.



A basic part of humour is to make fun of and laugh at differences.



Why should I keep it to myself? Social Justice Warriors like yourself can't wait to punish everybody who doesn't accept their tumblr version of reality and ironically can't wait to criticise white, straight men for all the ills of the world just like you did below with the WASP comment.

The biggest shower of hypocrites on the planet.



Equality is a myth as we are not all equal.



Ohhhh, and that's a bad thing is it even though it's those nasty evil wasps who created virtually the entire society you live in?

I'm a non-dress wearing WASP and proud.

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Because it's the decent thing to do? For someone that constantly cries about the breakdown of morals in this country you clearly lack them yourself if you have to question why you shouldn't mock/bully someone.

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Originally Posted by Kardan

Second of all, use of the word 'gay' as an insult. During teacher training we have a session on homophobia within schools and it really is a big issue, mainly because it's not tackled in the same way as other types of verbal abuse. The word gay is allowed to be used in school as long as you're using it in the correct context. Students can easily talk about how gay Graham Norton is, but they cannot talk about how gay their pen is, e.g. 'My pen ran out, it's so gay', that's obviously using the word 'gay' in a negative connotation and it's not acceptable.

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I love how despite being unable to control classes and even teach basic skills, our future teachers are being taught to tell children that saying a pen is gay is wrong where as calling Graham Norton isn't. What a really great future this country has in the economic race against the likes of China. It is beyond belief.

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Originally Posted by The Don

Because it's the decent thing to do? For someone that constantly cries about the breakdown of morals in this country you clearly lack them yourself if you have to question why you shouldn't mock/bully someone.

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There's bullying and then there's being unable to take a bloke wearing a dress seriously.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

I love how despite being unable to control classes and even teach basic skills, our future teachers are being taught to tell children that saying a pen is gay is wrong where as calling Graham Norton isn't. What a really great future this country has in the economic race against the likes of China. It is beyond belief.



There's bullying and then there's being unable to take a bloke wearing a dress seriously.

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And would you like to explain why you think teachers shouldn't deal with homophobic comments?

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Originally Posted by Kardan

And would you like to explain why you think teachers shouldn't deal with homophobic comments?

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Within reason.

There's bullying and there's bullying. A comment like my pen is so gay today isn't offensive, or rather if somebody does find it offensive they need to learn to get a grip. Being in school is just as important for character building as it is for education, and developing a thick skin is what you do in school so when you mature you are ready for the big bad world out there when - shock! horror! - people aren't always nice to you and you can't run to the teacher or to mummy. You deal with it.

Teach mathematics like you're paid to do, not how to be a little PC crybaby.

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Within reason.

There's bullying and there's bullying. A comment like my pen is so gay today isn't offensive, or rather if somebody does find it offensive they need to learn to get a grip. Being in school is just as important for character building as it is for education, and developing a thick skin is what you do in school so when you mature you are ready for the big bad world out there when - shock! horror! - people aren't always nice to you and you can't run to the teacher or to mummy. You deal with it.

Teach mathematics like you're paid to do, not how to be a little PC crybaby.

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It's offensive to the English Language. Should be punished for such pathetic use of a beautiful language, to be honest.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

- shock! horror! - people aren't always nice to you and you can't run to the teacher or to mummy. You deal with it.

Teach mathematics like you're paid to do, not how to be a little PC crybaby.

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In which case, it is absolutely fine for teachers to pick out the black kid in the class continually - after all, shock! horror!, there are racist people in the big bad world too?

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

- shock! horror! - people aren't always nice to you and you can't run to the teacher or to mummy. You deal with it.

Teach mathematics like you're paid to do, not how to be a little PC crybaby.

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In which case, it is absolutely fine for teachers to pick out the black kid in the class continually - after all, shock! horror!, there are racist people in the big bad world too?

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Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Within reason.

There's bullying and there's bullying. A comment like my pen is so gay today isn't offensive, or rather if somebody does find it offensive they need to learn to get a grip. Being in school is just as important for character building as it is for education, and developing a thick skin is what you do in school so when you mature you are ready for the big bad world out there when - shock! horror! - people aren't always nice to you and you can't run to the teacher or to mummy. You deal with it.

Teach mathematics like you're paid to do, not how to be a little PC crybaby.

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As you'll find if you ever get into the teaching career, you're not paid to solely teach your subject. You are expected to have professional values, which means you'll be expected to challenge such behaviour.

are you for or against this undertaker by the way