Patriotic gran wins fight against council over flying the Union flag

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17-05-2015, 05:17 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Patriotic gran wins fight against council over flying the Union flag

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/577...Union-Flag-ban

Flying high! Patriotic gran forces council to retreat on Union Flag ban

A PENSIONER who was threatened with eviction from her allotment for proudly displaying a Ukip banner and Union flag has won her fight against council bosses.

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/...hol-577901.jpg
Beryl McNichol won her battle against the council to fly the Union flag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daily Express

Outraged Beryl McNichol, 71, had said it was as if she were living in a communist country after she was ordered to tear down the 18ft flagpole on her allotment plot or be evicted within 24 hours. After the council reversed its decision, she said: "The council has shot itself in the foot for making such a fuss in the first place."

Mrs McNichol had used the flag pole to show her patriotism for more than two decades - raising the Union Flag, and the England flag during the World Cup and a Lest We Forget flag for VE Day. However she ran into trouble with her local Labour-ruled council two weeks ago when she flew a purple Ukip flag as well.

The council said the flagpole was classed as an inappropriate development on the allotment despite there being no mention of flagpoles in the plot agreement. A local planning officer then ruled the pole would have to be removed following a complaint about its presence, and because it breached the terms of her allotment tenancy.

Over four days she was sent two letters and numerous emails by a Mansfield District Council officer, who then turned up to remove the Ukip and a union flag himself. However, following a public outcry the council has performed a u-turn, writing to the grandmother-of-four and telling her that the flag pole can remain in place as long as it was modified to make sure it was safe. Planning boss Sean Davies denied accusations that the order to take it down had been a political move, and said he did not know who had made the complaint about the Ukip banner.

Always nice to see common sense win the day for once. I am surprised the council hasn't done what many nazi councils do when people fly flags or tidy up some public grassland/plant flowers, which is to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money to punish good acts by good people. That's usually the sort of nasty response we're used to seeing in this country whenever people show up their local stasi council.

Thoughts?
17-05-2015, 05:23 PM
Chippiewill

In summary, if you have a flag pole you look like a prat. If you have a flag pole and fly a political flag you look like a ****.
17-05-2015, 05:25 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

In summary, if you have a flag pole you look like a prat. If you have a flag pole and fly a political flag you look like a ****.

Self-loathing misery guts, ought to apply for a job in your local council.

Well done granny and the public.
17-05-2015, 06:07 PM
Aiden

don't see the problem besides that they used the fact she's old to give her sympathy...

Mansfield District Council woop woop.
17-05-2015, 06:19 PM
Chippiewill

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Self-loathing misery guts, ought to apply for a job in your local council.

Ehhhh, you still have a right to a flag-pole (Unless it violates planning laws), but I also have a right to think people who have one are prats and people who fly political flags are *****.
17-05-2015, 06:27 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiden

don't see the problem besides that they used the fact she's old to give her sympathy...

Mansfield District Council woop woop.

you don't see the problem with what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

Ehhhh, you still have a right to a flag-pole (Unless it violates planning laws), but I also have a right to think people who have one are prats and people who fly political flags are *****.

yeah and i have the right to think you're a self-loathing misery guts. emily thornberry 2.0

i'm glad it annoys the hell out of people like you, real glad.
17-05-2015, 07:44 PM
Aiden

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

you don't see the problem with what?

yeah and i have the right to think you're a self-loathing misery guts. emily thornberry 2.0

i'm glad it annoys the hell out of people like you, real glad.

she wasn't allowed to put a poll in some soil? you're right this is not fair and she deserves compensation. give her £££ right now mansfield council. how dare you have rules you silly buggers!!!
17-05-2015, 09:10 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiden

she wasn't allowed to put a poll in some soil? you're right this is not fair and she deserves compensation. give her £££ right now mansfield council. how dare you have rules you silly buggers!!!

What are you talking about.

She's had the flagpole there for years with no bother, until the moronic council decided to waste its time and resources going after her, probably for political reasons. Thankfully she went to the national papers to embarass them and due to public pressure the council nazis have backed down and left her alone.

Or should she be thrown in prison or sent to a re-education camp for daring to fly her own national flag? :rolleyes:
17-05-2015, 09:19 PM
Aiden

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

What are you talking about.

She's had the flagpole there for years with no bother, until the moronic council decided to waste its time and resources going after her, probably for political reasons. Thankfully she went to the national papers to embarass them and due to public pressure the council nazis have backed down and left her alone.

Or should she be thrown in prison or sent to a re-education camp for daring to fly her own national flag? :rolleyes:

lol honestly i just skim your post as they are either anti-gay or pro-ukip but that's very sad to hear. i hope she gets better soon... hard times.
17-05-2015, 09:19 PM
MKR&*42

How is a flagpole unsafe? I would like to know what kinda safety code this supposedly violates. It can't be "'cause it's tall"' because a tree is capable of being that tall as well :S
18-05-2015, 03:16 PM
AgnesIO

Perfectly reasonable council decision. Allotments are rented to people to grow vegetables, not stick up flagpoles. She should put a flag in her front garden if she wants one.
18-05-2015, 07:49 PM
Earthquake

when your criticized for flying your own flag in your own country then there is a huge problem in politics.
19-05-2015, 12:06 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by conservative

Perfectly reasonable council decision. Allotments are rented to people to grow vegetables, not stick up flagpoles. She should put a flag in her front garden if she wants one.

The council reversed its decision after it realised how stupid it looked in the eyes of the general public.

The job of the council is to empty the bins and clean the streets, something it struggles to do, not persecute a old ladies for flying their national flag.
19-05-2015, 12:58 PM
AgnesIO

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

The council reversed its decision after it realised how stupid it looked in the eyes of the general public.

The job of the council is to empty the bins and clean the streets, something it struggles to do, not persecute a old ladies for flying their national flag.

The job of the council is also to maintain its land. Allotments are for vegetables, not giant flag poles. What if the old lady decided to build a house on her allotment and paint the roof the colours of the Union Flag? Would that be fine? No.
19-05-2015, 02:26 PM
GommeInc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

Ehhhh, you still have a right to a flag-pole (Unless it violates planning laws), but I also have a right to think people who have one are prats and people who fly political flags are *****.

Pretty much my view. She deserved to win as you are allowed to be patriotic and from what I can see she is flying the flag on her rented bit of property from the council on the allotment, so the council cannot really do anything against her as a flag pole is not permanent. It is rented, rather than lent to her by the council. Big difference mostly on technicalities.

Personally I wouldn't dare fly a Union flag as I see no reason (myself) to be patriotic. I save it for official buildings, not my garden as it assumed I am indeed British and on British soil.
19-05-2015, 05:09 PM
AgnesIO

Quote:

Originally Posted by GommeInc

Pretty much my view. She deserved to win as you are allowed to be patriotic and from what I can see she is flying the flag on her rented bit of property from the council on the allotment, so the council cannot really do anything against her as a flag pole is not permanent. It is rented, rather than lent to her by the council. Big difference mostly on technicalities.

Personally I wouldn't dare fly a Union flag as I see no reason (myself) to be patriotic. I save it for official buildings, not my garden as it assumed I am indeed British and on British soil.

This is incorrect. They can attach any rules to their £30 a year rental agreement that they like.
19-05-2015, 07:31 PM
GommeInc

Quote:

Originally Posted by conservative

This is incorrect. They can attach any rules to their £30 a year rental agreement that they like.

They can very well do so, but if they failed to do it before the contract she can do whatever she wishes within reason (council by-laws etc). If they suddenly made a rule out of thin air they are and would be in the wrong by being in breach of contract - and seeing as no council in the country will have a by-law saying patriotism is banned for obvious reasons, she would be safe irrespective of adding rules to the agreement.
19-05-2015, 08:20 PM
AgnesIO

Quote:

Originally Posted by GommeInc

They can very well do so, but if they failed to do it before the contract she can do whatever she wishes within reason (council by-laws etc). If they suddenly made a rule out of thin air they are and would be in the wrong by being in breach of contract - and seeing as no council in the country will have a by-law saying patriotism is banned for obvious reasons, she would be safe irrespective of adding rules to the agreement.

How about the contract stating the allotments are solely for fruit and vegetables? That isn't exactly an unexpected requirement of an allotment....

You are making giant assumptions that are wholly unlikely.
19-05-2015, 08:33 PM
GommeInc

Quote:

Originally Posted by conservative

How about the contract stating the allotments are solely for fruit and vegetables? That isn't exactly an unexpected requirement of an allotment....

You are making giant assumptions that are wholly unlikely.

Clearly not as she won her case, otherwise she would be banned or it would be removed. They're not assumptions as they're common practice with allotments - it's why she won her case.

Allotments are not solely for fruit and vegetables. If a council were to write rules to that effects allotees wouldn't be allowed to have tools, sheds, ornaments (which flag poles are - and they're not permanent) and so forth. No council is daft enough to place such solid, stringent rules as they would be impractical. You are renting a plot of land after all, it isn't that different to renting a house in principle, except you must use it for its intended purpose (as you mentioned - growing fruit and vegetables). Those renting are allowed to personalise their allotments.
19-05-2015, 08:41 PM
Chippiewill

It's kinda a tough line about whether the council would have to explicitly ban something, like should they have to say you can't just pour petrol all over your allotment?

In the context of an allotment a flag-pole is not necessary and can have a detrimental effect on others (e.g. by casting a shadow), simultaneously the land is only rented and displaying a political flag could violate laws on advertising.
19-05-2015, 08:57 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by conservative

The job of the council is also to maintain its land. Allotments are for vegetables, not giant flag poles. What if the old lady decided to build a house on her allotment and paint the roof the colours of the Union Flag? Would that be fine? No.

Yes because hoisting the national flag is the same as that.

I bet you're a real laugh Mr Regulation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

It's kinda a tough line about whether the council would have to explicitly ban something, like should they have to say you can't just pour petrol all over your allotment?

In the context of an allotment a flag-pole is not necessary and can have a detrimental effect on others (e.g. by casting a shadow), simultaneously the land is only rented and displaying a political flag could violate laws on advertising.

Nobody had a problem with it. Except the jobsworth council.
19-05-2015, 09:13 PM
GommeInc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chippiewill

It's kinda a tough line about whether the council would have to explicitly ban something, like should they have to say you can't just pour petrol all over your allotment?

In the context of an allotment a flag-pole is not necessary and can have a detrimental effect on others (e.g. by casting a shadow), simultaneously the land is only rented and displaying a political flag could violate laws on advertising.

Because the former would be criminal damage as you do not own the land, you only own a share in space and time and the latter is contestable. A flag pole is not necessary but allotment owners are allowed to decorate their allotments - loads I have seen have teddies, solar powered ornaments and flags. What you mentioned about advertising is interesting - as that is the only thing that really sticks out. Presumably the allotment isn't situated somewhere where the banner would be a problem, or the council have their own rules about being politically neutral (perhaps removing it would be seen as bias?).
19-05-2015, 09:14 PM
AgnesIO

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Yes because hoisting the national flag is the same as that.

I bet you're a real laugh Mr Regulation.

Nobody had a problem with it. Except the jobsworth council.

I strive to be successful, not the village idiot.
19-05-2015, 09:19 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by GommeInc

Because the former would be criminal damage as you do not own the land, you only own a share in space and time and the latter is contestable. A flag pole is not necessary but allotment owners are allowed to decorate their allotments - loads I have seen have teddies, solar powered ornaments and flags. What you mentioned about advertising is interesting - as that is the only thing that really sticks out. Presumably the allotment isn't situated somewhere where the banner would be a problem, or the council have their own rules about being politically neutral (perhaps removing it would be seen as bias?).

Exactly.

On the advertising point, I looked into this a while ago and not sure when on council land but you are allowed to display political banners/flags etc during an election campaign where as if it's say permanent or a non-political advertisement then you need permission from the council nazis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by conservative

I strive to be successful, not the village idiot.

As I said, a right giggle and up for fun.