Public concern about Immigration hits record high while Economic concern drops

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30-09-2015, 11:49 AM
-:Undertaker:-

Public concern about Immigration hits record high while Economic concern drops

Public concern about Mass Immigration and Open Borders hits record high with 57% of the public listing it as the most important issue facing the country

Public concern about the Economy hits a 7 and a half year low at 26%

The Sept 2015 Ipsos-MORI Issues Index: Concern about the economy drop to a 7 and a half year low pic.twitter.com/R9t5jSVl5m
— Mike Smithson (@MSmithsonPB) September 30, 2015
It puts to bed that old chestnut that defenders of completely open borders always liked to spout for the last five years, along the lines of "omgz nobody cares about immigration normally its only when the economy is in trouble that people want to blame foreigners" which was and is complete rubbish as the graphs above show. If anything it goes to show that the issue of mass immigration is as much about identity and social cohesion now as it is about economics. That's why we've had Andy Burnham on the airwaves apologising like the insincere rat he is for Labour opening the borders.

Given there's an EU referendum around the corner it is just perfect.

Thoughts?
30-09-2015, 09:55 PM
abc

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Public concern about Mass Immigration and Open Borders hits record high with 57% of the public listing it as the most important issue facing the country

Public concern about the Economy hits a 7 and a half year low at 26%

The Sept 2015 Ipsos-MORI Issues Index
Trend chart showing concern about immigration moving to record high pic.twitter.com/jChStO5vqt
— Mike Smithson (@MSmithsonPB) September 30, 2015

The Sept 2015 Ipsos-MORI Issues Index: Concern about the economy drop to a 7 and a half year low pic.twitter.com/R9t5jSVl5m
— Mike Smithson (@MSmithsonPB) September 30, 2015
It puts to bed that old chestnut that defenders of completely open borders always liked to spout for the last five years, along the lines of "omgz nobody cares about immigration normally its only when the economy is in trouble that people want to blame foreigners" which was and is complete rubbish as the graphs above show. If anything it goes to show that the issue of mass immigration is as much about identity and social cohesion now as it is about economics. That's why we've had Andy Burnham on the airwaves apologising like the insincere rat he is for Labour opening the borders.

Given there's an EU referendum around the corner it is just perfect.

Thoughts?

It is record high because it has been plastered over every newspaper and news channel for like a month. So everyone wants this sorted immediately. Take the same poll in December, people will forget and it will be something else again.

Like if a terrorist attack happened tomorrow, a poll would show national security is the most important concern to the public.

And the bit about people blaming foreigners when the economy is in trouble is true. Every documentary I watch where someone doesn't have a job seems to blame foreigners. Not themselves or their lack of education or how they cba studying when they had free education, but they blame the foreigners who worked hard.

I do not want completely open borders, it needs to be controlled. But in situations where we go bomb another country because we think we are some sort of saints but end up ruining their country, we must take responsibility.

The sad truth is, the way we bomb countries, they must think of us as terrorists. Bombing them. Stealing their resources. And refusing to let them in when they are suffering. How people can be so inhumane in this day and age just... there are just no words to describe this the level of selfishness.
30-09-2015, 10:11 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

It is record high because it has been plastered over every newspaper and news channel for like a month. So everyone wants this sorted immediately. Take the same poll in December, people will forget and it will be something else again.

Like if a terrorist attack happened tomorrow, a poll would show national security is the most important concern to the public.

And why is it "plastered" all over the newspapers do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

And the bit about people blaming foreigners when the economy is in trouble is true. Every documentary I watch where someone doesn't have a job seems to blame foreigners. Not themselves or their lack of education or how they cba studying when they had free education, but they blame the foreigners who worked hard.

But maybe it isn't actually those stupid ignorant working classes just not understanding, maybe they actually do get hit the hardest by immigration because in those depressed towns and cities there aren't actually many job opportunities and because it is so cheap to live there it attracts immigrants: who then compete for the few jobs going with the locals. And that's without mentioning the cultural changes brought on towns which have a strong ethos of community which many middle class people who drive in and out of their gated driveways don't quite understand what it is like to lose that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

I do not want completely open borders, it needs to be controlled. But in situations where we go bomb another country because we think we are some sort of saints but end up ruining their country, we must take responsibility.

The sad truth is, the way we bomb countries, they must think of us as terrorists. Bombing them. Stealing their resources. And refusing to let them in when they are suffering. How people can be so inhumane in this day and age just... there are just no words to describe this the level of selfishness.

Well then we essentially agree, and thus agree that the current situtation is unacceptable. You'll be supporting Brexit I hope? :P
30-09-2015, 10:34 PM
abc

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

And why is it "plastered" all over the newspapers do you think?

But maybe it isn't actually those stupid ignorant working classes just not understanding, maybe they actually do get hit the hardest by immigration because in those depressed towns and cities there aren't actually many job opportunities and because it is so cheap to live there it attracts immigrants: who then compete for the few jobs going with the locals. And that's without mentioning the cultural changes brought on towns which have a strong ethos of community which many middle class people who drive in and out of their gated driveways don't quite understand what it is like to lose that.

Well then we essentially agree, and thus agree that the current situtation is unacceptable. You'll be supporting Brexit I hope? :P

It is was plastered all over the media as they need something juicy and controversial to sell the papers, and get viewers.

People moan about the 'foreigners taking jobs' in main cities too, not just these depressed towns...
You moan about the cultural changes some foreigners can bring but ignore the fact we go around bombing the world trying to change their culture? Yet we preach to others about not changing ours, talk about double standards. Foreigners don't change the culture, stop being so dramatic.

I do not care if our borders are open to the EU, I think it should remain open to the EU. I was talking about non-EU. You want whats best for this country? Then you would want to stay in the EU.
30-09-2015, 10:43 PM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

It is was plastered all over the media as they need something juicy and controversial to sell the papers, and get viewers.

Alternatively it could be to do with the fact that immigration is running at it's highest level ever in our history? Maybe just maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

People moan about the 'foreigners taking jobs' in main cities too, not just these depressed towns...

Indeed, and so they should.

Why should the government dance to the tune of large corporations who want to keep wages down by allowing in millions of single young men who will sleep ten to a small flat in order to secure that job, something a British person rightly wouldn't do - in a normal environment (ie, controlled national borders) employers would be forced by market forces to raise wages. Instead, they have an endless supply of very poor people to constantly undercut British wages.

That's not fair and it isn't on. All people want is some control - why is that so god damned controversial or nasty to you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

You moan about the cultural changes some foreigners can bring but ignore the fact we go around bombing the world trying to change their culture? Yet we preach to others about not changing ours, talk about double standards. Foreigners don't change the culture, stop being so dramatic.

So the culture of raping white girls in Rotherham and other northern towns just came upon muslim men/taxi drivers like a disease?

And in regards to foreign policy that is a separate issue, I agree with you on foreign policy more than you can imagine or would like to imagine. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

I do not care if our borders are open to the EU, I think it should remain open to the EU. I was talking about non-EU. You want whats best for this country? Then you would want to stay in the EU.

Ah, so you really do want open borders, you just said you didn't above because you and I both know that by admitting you want completely open borders (that comes with EU membership which you state you support) you de facto lose any sense of reality in this debate and are so far removed from public opinion that it is unreal.

You're trying to play the politicians game here of looking reasonable on immigration (wanting border controls) whilst supporting membership of the European Union which you, I and the politicians all know means you don't have any power to control the borders by being in it.
30-09-2015, 11:01 PM
AgnesIO

Ffs Dan, rape and Islam did not come along together...
01-10-2015, 12:04 AM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by conservative

Ffs Dan, rape and Islam did not come along together...

So the rape of young girls has nothing to do with their culture?

Don't be absurd. I know in 2015 that we're supposed to say everyone is an individual, you can't stereotype, every religion is just so perfectly equal (despite at the same time being 'diverse'[?]) and all that malarky but anyone who knows anything about the world knows there's certain things about certain cultures which are true. In Islamic societies the rape and child forced marriages are common, in the likes of Pakistan corruption is a fact of life which is something the British even 300 years ago had problems with and tried eradicating, in Afghanistan among the tribes for example - there's a common culture of men and tribal leaders raping young boys which is something the Americans have had a lot of problems over recently. In Romania (specifically Roma gypsies) there's widespread theft and fraud, in South Africa there's rape and murder like secondary nature and so on and so on and so on. I could go on all day and be even more specific but you get the gist. There's societies and groups of people out there who are simply incompatible with western culture. Period.

Rotherham, Rochdale and all the other examples all had one common theme running through them: muslim men. It can't be denied.
01-10-2015, 12:24 AM
FlyingJesus

Correlation and causation aren't the same thing, you know this. Also the articles themselves are a little dated now but those fabulous "British public wrong about everything" stories still ring true :P public concern isn't necessarily the same thing as actual threat
01-10-2015, 08:20 PM
abc

With all due respect, I honestly think you have been brainwashed or live in a world separated to ours. See my reasons below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Alternatively it could be to do with the fact that immigration is running at it's highest level ever in our history?

Or because a dead kid laid faced down on a beach makes a powerful news story. Or may be because it is a real crisis these people who are fleeing their home countries are facing.

Indeed, and so they should.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Why should the government dance to the tune of large corporations who want to keep wages down by allowing in millions of single young men who will sleep ten to a small flat in order to secure that job, something a British person rightly wouldn't do - in a normal environment (ie, controlled national borders) employers would be forced by market forces to raise wages. Instead, they have an endless supply of very poor people to constantly undercut British wages.

That's not fair and it isn't on. All people want is some control - why is that so god damned controversial or nasty to you?

Sure, increase the wages. Let's see how rapidly the unemployment increases then, and then you will yet again post a thread moaning how unemployment has increased. Technology is replacing humans fast. That is the harsh reality. My local Cineworld has halved their staff in the last two years because of technological advances. Companies will send their work offshore because due to technology it is so easily possible. Increase wages and more jobs will automatically be shifted abroad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

So the culture of raping white girls in Rotherham and other northern towns just came upon muslim men/taxi drivers like a disease?

Oh sorry, I must have missed the big news article where out of the 22,116 reported rape cases in the last year, majority were by Muslim men/taxi drivers and mainly in Rochdale. I want you to find the stats on this nonsense claim.

This comment alone shows your lack of knowledge and your ignorance on this subject. "Like a disease"... you forget the treasured national "hero" Jimmy Saville was a pedo... and he was white. Not muslim, not a tax driver, but white. The former Prime Minister of UK is accused of being a pedo. May be you missed all of the news where these white "non muslims" were also raping white girls? Wait.. even worse... underage girls.

So go on, show me proof that it is mainly Muslims who rape girls. But you won't be able to because it is absolute rubbish and you know it, you just make ridiculous claims and fail to back it up just like you beloved Nigel Farage. And he is an idiot who couldn't even become an MP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

So the rape of young girls has nothing to do with their culture?

In which case the British "white" culture must promote rape, look at Saville, look at the former PM just to name a few people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

Don't be absurd. I know in 2015 that we're supposed to say everyone is an individual, you can't stereotype, every religion is just so perfectly equal (despite at the same time being 'diverse'[?]) and all that malarky but anyone who knows anything about the world knows there's certain things about certain cultures which are true. In Islamic societies the rape and child forced marriages are common, in the likes of Pakistan corruption is a fact of life which is something the British even 300 years ago had problems with and tried eradicating, in Afghanistan among the tribes for example - there's a common culture of men and tribal leaders raping young boys which is something the Americans have had a lot of problems over recently. In Romania (specifically Roma gypsies) there's widespread theft and fraud, in South Africa there's rape and murder like secondary nature and so on and so on and so on. I could go on all day and be even more specific but you get the gist. There's societies and groups of people out there who are simply incompatible with western culture. Period.

Rotherham, Rochdale and all the other examples all had one common theme running through them: muslim men. It can't be denied.

I want to show how ridiculous above comment is in one simple post:

In 2014, the highest number of recorded adult rapes - 34.8 per 100,000 adult population - was in Northamptonshire. Northamptonshire has 85.7% White British. And less than 2.5% Muslims.

This stat shows how rubbish your claims are.

You know what is common in the world? Only UK and USA seem to think they dominate the world and go bomb everyone and butt in everyone elses culture. You hate people coming to UK? Then why the hell do we go and butt in other peoples culture and try and change it? Why do we try and lord our culture over everyone else? A culture of living off benefits, children who cba to study even with free education, people who support sites which allows them to cheat on their wives and husband? Yeah a great culture you want to cherish and protect.

Just for the record, I have no problem at all with the British culture, but how dare you use a minority of people and blame it all on a religion or a type of people. I am not Muslim but I know their culture better than you ever will.
06-10-2015, 11:48 AM
-:Undertaker:-

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

Or because a dead kid laid faced down on a beach makes a powerful news story. Or may be because it is a real crisis these people who are fleeing their home countries are facing.

Indeed, and so they should.

You do realise the actual story behind that child do you not? The family had lived for a few years in the Republic of Turkey and from what I read the father even had a job. The father stupidly put his family into a boat and risked their lives so he could get to Germany.

It's a lie and you keep peddling it that they were somehow fleeing danger. And in addition to that, do you not understand that by allowing more and more to come you are actually increasing the chances of more boat deaths, as the Australian experience has proven?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

Sure, increase the wages. Let's see how rapidly the unemployment increases then, and then you will yet again post a thread moaning how unemployment has increased. Technology is replacing humans fast. That is the harsh reality. My local Cineworld has halved their staff in the last two years because of technological advances. Companies will send their work offshore because due to technology it is so easily possible. Increase wages and more jobs will automatically be shifted abroad.

So wait, we should just have an endless conveyor belt of third world labour coming into Britain?

Given the choice between some companies leaving and millions of third worlders coming here, i'll take less revenue anyday. Of course all of this is complete nonsense as Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia and countless other countries prove with their immigration policies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

Oh sorry, I must have missed the big news article where out of the 22,116 reported rape cases in the last year, majority were by Muslim men/taxi drivers and mainly in Rochdale. I want you to find the stats on this nonsense claim.

I don't recall claiming that all rapes in the UK took place in Rochdale/Rotherham.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

This comment alone shows your lack of knowledge and your ignorance on this subject. "Like a disease"... you forget the treasured national "hero" Jimmy Saville was a pedo... and he was white. Not muslim, not a tax driver, but white. The former Prime Minister of UK is accused of being a pedo. May be you missed all of the news where these white "non muslims" were also raping white girls? Wait.. even worse... underage girls.

So go on, show me proof that it is mainly Muslims who rape girls. But you won't be able to because it is absolute rubbish and you know it, you just make ridiculous claims and fail to back it up just like you beloved Nigel Farage. And he is an idiot who couldn't even become an MP.

Ever heard of the Jay Report which detailed what went on in Rotherham?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

In which case the British "white" culture must promote rape, look at Saville, look at the former PM just to name a few people.

Yes because that's totes comparable with a culture of mass rape (see Jay Report) which took place in Rotherham. :rolleyes:

I want to show how ridiculous above comment is in one simple post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

In 2014, the highest number of recorded adult rapes - 34.8 per 100,000 adult population - was in Northamptonshire. Northamptonshire has 85.7% White British. And less than 2.5% Muslims.

This stat shows how rubbish your claims are.

Where have I claimed that all rapes in Britain took place in Rotherham? Constantly twisting the issue to avoid what I actually said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snr

You know what is common in the world? Only UK and USA seem to think they dominate the world and go bomb everyone and butt in everyone elses culture. You hate people coming to UK? Then why the hell do we go and butt in other peoples culture and try and change it? Why do we try and lord our culture over everyone else? A culture of living off benefits, children who cba to study even with free education, people who support sites which allows them to cheat on their wives and husband? Yeah a great culture you want to cherish and protect.

Just for the record, I have no problem at all with the British culture, but how dare you use a minority of people and blame it all on a religion or a type of people. I am not Muslim but I know their culture better than you ever will.

British culture and western Christian culture is x1000 superior and better than Islamic culture. That's just a fact.

Not all cultures are equal.
18-10-2015, 09:35 PM
Thordenhime

Quote:

Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-

You do realise the actual story behind that child do you not? The family had lived for a few years in the Republic of Turkey and from what I read the father even had a job. The father stupidly put his family into a boat and risked their lives so he could get to Germany.

It's a lie and you keep peddling it that they were somehow fleeing danger. And in addition to that, do you not understand that by allowing more and more to come you are actually increasing the chances of more boat deaths, as the Australian experience has proven?

So wait, we should just have an endless conveyor belt of third world labour coming into Britain?

Given the choice between some companies leaving and millions of third worlders coming here, i'll take less revenue anyday. Of course all of this is complete nonsense as Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia and countless other countries prove with their immigration policies.

I don't recall claiming that all rapes in the UK took place in Rochdale/Rotherham.

Ever heard of the Jay Report which detailed what went on in Rotherham?

Yes because that's totes comparable with a culture of mass rape (see Jay Report) which took place in Rotherham. :rolleyes:

I want to show how ridiculous above comment is in one simple post:

Where have I claimed that all rapes in Britain took place in Rotherham? Constantly twisting the issue to avoid what I actually said.

British culture and western Christian culture are x1000 superior and better than the Islamic culture. That's just a fact.

Not all cultures are equal.

Middle eastern culture Have actually voted in more women leaders than the Britain and USA combined they are also responsible for most of the foundations for mathematics biology astrology architecture they were also the first to establish hospitals in every major city and mental health establishments,Infact most of the decline in the scientific culture was due to the mongol invasion and the burning of the libraries by the christian crusaders.

also https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-arti...EU-immigration
18-10-2015, 11:46 PM
dbgtz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thordenhime

Middle eastern culture Have actually voted in more women leaders than the Britain and USA combined they are also responsible for most of the foundations for mathematics biology astrology architecture they were also the first to establish hospitals in every major city and mental health establishments,Infact most of the decline in the scientific culture was due to the mongol invasion and the burning of the libraries by the christian crusaders.

also https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-arti...EU-immigration

[Citation needed]

I won't comment on the specific points you raised, but I would like to point out you've compared a cluster of around 15 countries to... 2. I decided to look at some middle eastern countries who had women leaders and couldn't find any, not that I find the idea of a distinguishing a female leader from a male leader particularly progressive in the first place. I will also point out we technically don't elect the leader in the UK to begin with (be that the Monarch or Prime Minister), but that's another story :P
18-10-2015, 11:53 PM
Thordenhime

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbgtz

[Citation needed]

I won't comment on the specific points you raised, but I would like to point out you've compared a cluster of around 15 countries to... 2. I decided to look at some middle eastern countries who had women leaders and couldn't find any, not that I find the idea of a distinguishing a female leader from a male leader particularly progressive in the first place. I will also point out we technically don't elect the leader in the UK to begin with (be that the Monarch or Prime Minister), but that's another story :P

My bad i meant muslim countries reza aslan sums it up better than me anyway https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw