Labour for the working class and Conservatives for the rich? - just stop and think.

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/elec...ax-dodge.html#

Harriet Harman was accused of 'hypocrisy' yesterday for attacking Tory plans to cut inheritance tax although her own family exploited loopholes to shelter their fortune from the levy. The Labour deputy leader was revealed to be one of the beneficiaries of a trust set up in her father's will designed to reduce the amount of tax she would eventually pay on his estate. Miss Harman has repeatedly railed against the Tory proposal to raise the inheritance threshold substantially, describing it as a 'tax cut for the wealthiest estates'. But documents show how her father attempted to use complex tax avoidance loopholes to protect some of his fortune from the Inland Revenue.

John Bishop Harman, a surgeon who died in 1994, set up a trust designed to minimise the amount his children would pay in tax on his £750,000 estate. He created a 'nil-rate-band discretionary trust', a structure used by wealthy families at that time. It allows one spouse to transfer assets up to the value of the inheritance tax threshold to a trust when he or she dies, and name the chosen heirs as beneficiaries. The remaining estate passed on to the surviving spouse is correspondingly smaller, limiting the tax liability to the children on their death and effectively doubling the inheritance tax threshold. One expert said the family would have had to go 'out of their way' to draw up the then little-known arrangement. The Conservatives claimed it undermined Miss Harman's 'class war' attacks on their proposals to lift the inheritance tax burden. Tory chairman Eric Pickles said: 'Harriet Harman's hypocrisy is breathtaking. You need to judge Labour not on what they say, but on what they do.'

Tax experts said that the rules changed in 2007, since when couples have been allowed to transfer their inheritance tax allowances - making trusts of the kind Mr Harman set up redundant. Miss Harman's mother Anna is still alive, aged 91, and would now be able to use her late husband's tax allowance when making a will even if he had not set up the trust. But had the inheritance been passed on before 2007, Miss Harman and her siblings would have benefited by thousands of pounds. Mark Spragg, an expert in probate at Keystone Law, said of the trust scheme: 'Not everybody would have known about it at the time. It wasn't widely publicised by the Revenue. This was something people thought up as a good idea. It was an avoidance scheme when it came out - it was obviously a bit of a tactic.'

I often hear people on this forum and in general crying out how the Labour Party is for the poor and the working class and how the Conservatives are just downright nasty businessmen who are in it for themselves - this is yet another story which blows away this total myth that has been running for a very very long time. Miss Harman (who I have to say is the most loathsome of the entire bunch) has now been caught out being quite a toff herself yet accuses the Conservatives of it regulary along with her entire Party. According to a post on the Daily Mail also in the comments section; Harman accuses Cameron of being a toff despite the fact she also went to a private school. Harman advocates state schooling for all children yet sends her children to faith schools. Harman attacks Tory proposals for relaxing inhertiance tax yet attempts along with her family to avoid paying the tax also - I mean, just what do these people have to do to get people not to vote for them?

We can now add Harman to the ever-growing and long list of the champagne socialists of the Labour Party who can be found listed below with exactly what they have done, strange really because they all hate us having capital for ourselves yet the game changes when it comes to their own money, family and title doesnt it? - it may be her family but it certainly does not look good and does help her cause when you look at her own record concerning schooling and so forth + add this to the fact we could presume she was aware of this arrangement because the trust would of benefitted her when her father died.

Harriet Harman

• Sends her children to faith schools despite her government advocating state schooling.
• Her family attempts to avoid paying tax on a tax that she, in public at least, fully supports.
• Attacks David Cameron as a toff despite the fact she also went to a private school.

John Prescott

• Always campaigned/hated the ruling elite yet is accepting a peerage of which he so loathed not long ago.
• For the 'workers' in his Union yet used a grace and favour home courtesy of the Union.
• For the 'people' yet paid his council tax with public money and got caught.
• A 'man of the people' yet drove around in a Jaguar car - far from the working class as you could get.

Tony Blair

• Attended a very posh college yet waged class war against the Conservatives in his early days.
• Advocated socialism yet now recieves millions in speeches/performances and business.
• Has links with a oil company that has made an immense amount out of the invasion of Iraq.
• Expenses had been shredded 'accidently'.

Gordon Brown

• Advocated milking the state aka the taxpayer in his socialist student days.
• Abused the expenses system at the expense of the taxpayer (expenses can be found online).

Peter Mandelson

• Twice resigned due to fraud investigations.
• Often says the Tories are for the rich and Labour for the poor, when he himself is on a golden plated pension.
• Now an unelected Lord, twice disgraced.
• Spent time in the EU so will also recieve generous pension from this, all at the expense of the taxpayer.

Neil Kinnock

• Ex-Labour leader for those who do not know.
• Hated Thatcher and played the class card all the time claiming Tories were for the rich, Labour for the poor.
• Talked tough on the EU and its CAP policy yet went on to a cushy job within the European Union.
• Hated the ruling elite and the House of Lords yet accepted a peerage.

There are various others within the Labour Party who slam the Conservatives and the right in general of being all for the rich and neglecting the poor yet they are at it themselves, they have become what they set out to destroy (if they ever meant it). I respect people like George Galloway and Tony Benn (snr.) who at least tend to stick to their left wing principles no matter how much I disagree with them. I would just urge anyone who considers themselves left wing to support a party which actually upholds that principle, because the Labour Party certainly doesnt. It is one rule for them, another for us.

Thoughts, has the Labour Party lost its way or did it ever have a way?

[Bun]

daily mail, daily mail, daily mail.

[-:Undertaker:-]

daily mail, daily mail, daily mail.

Why is it that on this forum, all left wingers (and Labour supporters in general) can only muster a response to the newspaper source used?

Cod let me ask you this and i'd appreciate a response from you and others, would you or any other Labour supporters on here like to give an opinion to what I have written using revelations on your fantastic party which claims it works for the poor but only milks you and your family dry - I think its important you face upto that truth now rather than when they are in opposition again because I can gurantee you will all be jumping on the Conservative and any scandals that occur under their administration despite the fact it all happened under Labour and the fact is that with Labour is is rather worse, especially when it is the party which is all for equality and fairness as it calls it. I believe the Labour motto this election is something to do with fairness?

Well thats not standing up to much now, is it.

[jam666]

Why is it that on this forum, all left wingers (and Labour supporters in general) can only muster a response to the newspaper source used?

Cod let me ask you this and i'd appreciate a response from you and others, would you or any other Labour supporters on here like to give an opinion to what I have written using revelations on your fantastic party which claims it works for the poor but only milks you and your family dry - I think its important you face upto that truth now rather than when they are in opposition again because I can gurantee you will all be jumping on the Conservative and any scandals that occur under their administration despite the fact it all happened under Labour and the fact is that with Labour is is rather worse, especially when it is the party which is all for equality and fairness as it calls it. I believe the Labour motto this election is something to do with fairness?

Well thats not standing up to much now, is it.

There is one simple reason why they wont reply and thats because they know we right wing supporters are right. The problem is that many left wing / left central supporters fail to admit the truth when it comes to politics. one example been Margaret Thatcher. They all say they hate her and that they would hate to go back to the 1980's... little do they realise that in the 70's who was in power? LABOUR was... and im damn sure you wernt rolling in it back then.

Left wing supporters are generally focused on pathetic unrealistic idealism and will therefore always think they are 100% right even when the FACTS prove them wrong as so called nothing can change their mind.

My answer for this is GET REAL and ADMIT the TRUTH to yourself, your not going to get anywhere with Labour or the Liberals as they are both LEFT WING SOCIALISTS which has been PROVEN time and time before to be ABSOLUTELY DISASTERIOUS with UNPRESIDENTED CIRCUMSTANCES, you want an example of this?? just look at WW1, WW2, and the Cold War..

[Catzsy]

Why is it that on this forum, all left wingers (and Labour supporters in general) can only muster a response to the newspaper source used?

Cod let me ask you this and i'd appreciate a response from you and others, would you or any other Labour supporters on here like to give an opinion to what I have written using revelations on your fantastic party which claims it works for the poor but only milks you and your family dry - I think its important you face upto that truth now rather than when they are in opposition again because I can gurantee you will all be jumping on the Conservative and any scandals that occur under their administration despite the fact it all happened under Labour and the fact is that with Labour is is rather worse, especially when it is the party which is all for equality and fairness as it calls it. I believe the Labour motto this election is something to do with fairness?

Well thats not standing up to much now, is it.

Because you have a very skewed idea of exactly what socialism in respect of the new labour party means. They are not communists - they want a fairer more equal society but that does not mean everybody has to be on the same level. I really think you should do some research before you keep posting these attacks.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Because you have a very skewed idea of exactly what socialism in respect of the new labour party means. They are not communists - they want a fairer more equal society but that does not mean everybody has to be on the same level. I really think you should do some research before you keep posting these attacks.

So in other words it is as I said, where they impose socialism and 'fairness' on everybody else but not themselves.
I have researched it as you can see above, and i'm challenging you and others to defend it.

[Inseriousity.]

There is one simple reason why they wont reply and thats because they know we right wing supporters are right

Or maybe it's because it's like debating with a brick wall. Just goes round and round in circles, everyone repeating the same stuff over and over again and it just gets boring.

I don't really think it's as simple as 'labour = working class' and 'tory = rich' because class tends to be less defined and 'set in stone' as it used to be.

[Ajthedragon]

There is one simple reason why they wont reply and thats because they know we right wing supporters are right. The problem is that many left wing / left central supporters fail to admit the truth when it comes to politics. one example been Margaret Thatcher. They all say they hate her and that they would hate to go back to the 1980's... little do they realise that in the 70's who was in power? LABOUR was... and im damn sure you wernt rolling in it back then.

Left wing supporters are generally focused on pathetic unrealistic idealism and will therefore always think they are 100% right even when the FACTS prove them wrong as so called nothing can change their mind.

My answer for this is GET REAL and ADMIT the TRUTH to yourself, your not going to get anywhere with Labour or the Liberals as they are both LEFT WING SOCIALISTS which has been PROVEN time and time before to be ABSOLUTELY DISASTERIOUS with UNPRESIDENTED CIRCUMSTANCES, you want an example of this?? just look at WW1, WW2, and the Cold War..

Exactly that, Labour ****** us then, and the Tories had to clean up their mess. Making everybody hate them in the process. Worst yet - Labour were only in power 5 years back then.

[Frodo13.]

The fact you get your ideas and views from the Daily Mail discredits you in such a high fashion. Bin Laden would report more reliable news than this. The fact its not even Harman herself, but her father makes the article even more pathetic!

[Catzsy]

So in other words it is as I said, where they impose socialism and 'fairness' on everybody else but not themselves.
I have researched it as you can see above, and i'm challenging you and others to defend it.

What on earth are you talking about? They have made their careers by being self-motivated and doing it. Where does it say anywhere that a member of the labour party should not be rich? Where does it say that they are against the rich, the middle classes or the poor? You speak a load of bunkum sometimes. What they do object to is giving the top 3000 richest people in the country a break in inheritance tax. They are probably doing themselves no favours at all by doing this. Why shouldn't they be rich they have earned the money. Bill Gates is probably one of the richest men on the planet but he is a philanthropist as well. Is he wrong too?

Latest news too is that the manufacturing figures are the best they have been for 15 years.
Link:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Bus...15624566?f=rss