Regarding the Reputation Issue

[nvrspk4]

Hey there,

Ok, I'm sorry, but no matter how dedicated I am and how much I don't back down from a long thread or long posts, there's no way I'm going through 58 pages this late. Actually, I would, except they all say the same thing except for the one meaningful post here and there. So I cba to read that just to find the occasional gem of originality and thought. So if you made a decent point, feel free to post it here. If you are going to post here saying STUPID CHANGE CHANGE IT NOW, I will not pay attention to you. Who knows, I may even make a statement -rep you. Ok I probably won't because that doesn't achieve anything. And that's a point I'll make later. But first.

No I'm not going to leave this saying post worthwhile posts here to save me trouble. I have a point to make.

First of all, it seems all the blame is going to MAD. Now, I could sit here and let him take all the heat, and it wouldn't be hard at all, and we would've gotten something that needed to be done done and I would have kept my (limited at best) popularity. But that's an utterly vile and despiccable thing to do to have someone else take the heat for something you were a part of. So let me reveal something. The decision was one made by all four members of General Management plus sierk. At least the decision to make the limits for rep power higher were the decision of all five of us, we're reevaluating if the specific numbers are too high or two low, but we aren't going to change it to an arbitrary number just because you feel its right. We'll actually think out arguments to why it should be at a lower or higher number.

Moving on, it was all of our decision. So no, its not MAD abusing his power. Even if I hated MAD (and I don't..and anyone who tells me that I'm sucking up evidently lacks the brainpower to realize that I have no reason to suck up) I would not allow him to take the sole blame on this. So, it was a committee decision I suppose you could say and we did argue the issue out a bit.

But let me give you a bit of perspective before you tell us that this committee is biased against you and since we're so elite and have 15 power anyway since we don't care. We put every option on there when we discuss a problem. We weren't just like, HEY LETS LOWER EVERYONES REP POWER LOZL. We consider the reputation issue a very large one. Therefore, we posted the reputation issue up, and looked for solutions. We put EVERYTHING up there, no matter how wild. Among those were removing the system entirely, refunding and removing ALL bought rep, setting the system to 0, etc. etc. Another one was disabling negative rep. And the last was removing paid rep. One by one they were struck down as AGMs thinking of the members decided that they were too unfair or were biased against certain people. I won't tell you who did what, because this isn't about glorification, its just to illustrate that we don't do everything without thinking about the members. So only making rep power harder to achieve remained, along with removing rep. We decided to do both. This was after extended debating of the issue.

So it was a thought out decision, we are rethinking SOME of the numbers, and some of the numbers (ie Rep from 1000 to 600) have changed. However the basis behind the idea still stands. Rep powers are going far too high, and reputation is slowly spinning out of control. Why is it an issue? The high powers are being abused. A social order is being created where the higher your rep and rep power is, the higher up you are. This is the forum equivalent of the "The more your car cost the larger your *genitalia* is." That's redonkulous. As is the rep power thing. Also larger rep powers used their rep power to cower newer members, and they would actually -rep people they didn't like until they sat down and shut up. Obviously not acceptable.

Don't believe me about the social order? Then why not reexamine why you're mad. Why are you mad? Because you lost rep power. Why do you care about losing rep power? Because obviously you think it has some part in the respect you get. Don't feed me *crud* about how its for the satisfaction of being able to take one more point off an annoying member's rep or give one more point for that super alt. Because that is crap. You care because you have a higher number above your rep bar. I believe it was possibly one of the biggest mistakes we have ever made adding the rep power to a person's postbit. If you still don't believe me, consider this. Did anybody care about their rep power until it was included in the postbit? No. If it wasn't included in the postbit, nobody would even notice or mind the change all that much either. Everyone's complaints are about numbers. Just confirming this more.

Does it mean you have bigger ones just because you have a higher number above your rep bar? Are you morally superior to someone else because you have a bigger number there? No.

Oh yeah, and coincidentally you might consider how lucky you are. Since probably in total thousands of power were removed across the forum, tens of thousands of rep points should have been lost. People who got only three reps from neversoft should have lost about 100 points just from that. (And, no matter what you think, we weren't targeting you specifically )

So, present to me a logical argument that is not based off of "I want a higher rep power for the purpose of having a higher number there" and I will respond.

I have other things I want to say, but right now they're swimming around in the back of my head and I can't grab them quick enough. So let me take a different tack.

You could try it out you know. It wouldn't kill you. Last three major riots? Infractions, MAD being GM, MAD being FM. Nobody cares anymore (or at least as much). Well, people consider MAD a terrible GM now, but three days ago I can guarantee a lot fewer people disliked MAD as a GM.

Half of the people in this are caught up in a mob mentality. If you were each able to speak with an (A)GM one on one, I guarantee the numbers of protestors would be much less. However when 20 people are outraged, spreading their outrage to 3 friends each, all of a sudden it becomes a frenzy and an AGM's response is lost between 20 protesting posts, and nearly half the people don't see it.




On a completely different tack, the poll, as I'm sure you've guessed, is totally unrelated to the rant. So I would like to know what y'all think about this.

Person A gives Person B a pointless rep.

Admin finds it because of one of the circumstances that leads them to search through rep, lets not go through those now.

Rep is deleted, Admin records it and PMs it to person B explaining that its been deleted as its pointless (may be multiple reps if Person B was being searched, however if Person A was having their sent reps checked, then the Admin wouldn't randomly check Person B's recieved reps).

Person B has no consequences other than the little bit of rep points removed.

Person A, however, has the amount of all sent pointless reps over the last month added together, and double the amount is subtracted from Person A's rep by the Admin.

You can't deny the responsiblity for the reps you send. This way the person who pointless reps is punished, and its a more effective way to combat the pointless rep situation (in addition to the rep power thing, which was ridiculous for other reasons, this has to do with pointless rep but pointless rep was only one facet of the rep power thing.) So feel free to leave your opinions on this too.


And finally, on a COMPLETELY different task, there is something big coming in January that I will be putting together (and am putting together now) that I think will make things like these easier to stomach in the future, and give you an outlet, or at least a better explanation, about these kinds of issues. However no comments about that please because its not that far away and I'm not saying nawt

So anyway, there's my rant.

Anyone who says OMG THATS TOO LONG TO READ has in my eyes lost all validity and all their rights to complain about the issue. If they truly care, they would read it. If they don't read it, they're A) merely agitators B) jumping on the bandwagon C) finding an excuse to rip management or D) don't really care all that much.

nvr

[Demon]

The fact still remains that you dont listen to us. You could have put a poll before you messed up rep your just doing things nobody likes even people with 0 rep dont like it. Its going to take like a year to get up a power.

[Hayd93]

ok i have read it all,I admire you for writing that to try to sort the problem but could you tell me everyone elses rep goes down but yours and mads and that stays the same i know because it is defalt for the admin but shurely shouldent you lower yours too.

As well as above you never ask what we want anymore you just do it to us

[Demon]

Btw why does --ss-- have 17 rep?

Edited by opensourcehost (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post pointless or off-topic comments.

[AgnesIO]

This idea is far better, than the pathetic new thing.

[Boxiel]

I agree with the red text.. only if rep is returned back to what it was previously.

[buttons]

to put it into perspective, you suck, ok?

Edited by opensourcehost (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post rude or pointless comments.

[jesus]

this doesnt really bother me before you say anything, but if you want my opinion here it is:

the reputation system was fine as it was, its just a bit of harmless fun and its a nice thing to do. even if 'pointless' reputation was being given, who actually cares? no other forum ive EVER visited has been so concerned about their forums reputation system and i dont see why this one should be.

also it appears i was wrong in thinking that the users 'hapiness' comes first here.

[Jamesy]

to put it into perspective, you suck, ok?

Oh yes, very well thought out argument...

Edited by opensourcehost (Forum Super Moderator): Please do not post pointless comments.

[Catzsy]

Yes great post NVR and an effective solution.
Shame it was not posted before the rep change.
Having said that I do not wholeheartedly agree with the body of your argument and merging all the rep threads is just a way of confusing the issue basically and making sure people cba to read it as you have said yourself.