Prisons are super harsh & reform criminals!

[Hitman]

NOT.

People say that prisons are useless and have nice facilities and then on the other hand you have the people arguing that they are horrible places and they do change criminals and are working.

Clearly not. Take a look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/10500315.stm

A police officer has been injured in an "unprovoked" shooting which police are linking to an earlier double shooting.
Police have been hunting for Raoul Thomas Moat, 37, who they believe shot his ex-girlfriend before killing her new partner in Gateshead on Saturday.
Moat, from Newcastle, was released from prison three days ago.
The officer was approached by an armed man and shot in Newcastle at about 0045 BST. His condition is thought to be serious, but not life-threatening.
Police said the uniformed motor patrol officer was carrying out a "static patrol" on a roundabout at East Denton which joins the A1 and A69 when he was attacked. He was later taken to Newcastle General Hospital.

Keep reading...

Moat had been released from Durham prison on Thursday after serving a sentence for assault.
BBC correspondent Danny Savage said it appeared Moat's relationship with his former girlfriend, who has been named locally as Samantha Stobbart, ended when he was in prison.
Following his release Moat tracked her down to the home of her parents where the shootings took place.
Ms Stobbart remains critically ill in hospital after reportedly being shot twice through a window of the house in Scafell, Birtley.

As you can see this man had just been released from prison. He had not changed. Maybe it got him even more angrier to carry out this revenge? Clearly he was violent because he had been sentenced for assault. I read that 9/10 prisoners released go back to crime, I think this was on the debate thing between Clegg, Brown & Cameron earlier this year - quite clearly prisons are not an effective way to decriminalise people.

[MrPinkPanther]

quite clearly prisons are not an effective way to decriminalise people.

This is very true, but that doesn't mean that Prisons aren't harsh enough. In my opinion some people are morally wrong (whether this is because of upbringing, past experiences or whatever) and they won't change whatever sentence is passed on them. The problem is differentiating between the genuine reformers and people like this guy. One of the key issues with Prison is the culture of crime, you've just gone and put thousands of criminals in a small area which is often why it makes people worse. Criminals get influenced by other potentially worse convicts and they learn "tips and tricks" off one another which is why recidivism rates are so high. It has little to do with "Prisons aren't harsh enough".

[Hecktix]

Prison is generally a crap concept of dealing with criminals "shove them in a cell for a few years then they'll regret it" - it really doesn't work and as they are associating with other criminals it makes them more likely to offend when they get out.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying prison should be scrapped there's not much else you can do for people who commit crimes like murder, rape etc however for smaller crimes such as theft, vandalism, minor assault charges etc something like restorative justice would be better used in my opinion as it keeps the "lesser" criminals out of prison (who if they went into prison are more likely to commit a more serious crime when they leave) and it actually teaches them to be sorry for their crime.

Restorative justice by the way is where both the criminal and the victim agree to participate in a programme of meetings where they meet face to face, or write letters to eachother so the victim can show the criminal (who has pleaded guilty and admitted to the crime) exactly how the crime made them feel. Research shows that restorative justice leaves both the criminal and the victim feeling more satisfied and a lot of victims have helped the people who victimised them become a better person (as it were).

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you are all happy with allowing 'lesser criminals' out, free to mug your homes and terrorise your neighbourhoods then thats fine by me - but the problem is that most of you are taking this view because you live in areas with next to no crime at all and the same goes for Ken Clarke (Conservative) who has now announced this week that he wants to let thousands of prisoners released early just as Labour did when they were in office (I did say the election would make next to no difference and again i've been proved correct). Try living where people live, try living amongst these 'lesser criminals' then come back and say they should be released early.

They keep committing crimes? - build more prisons, make them tougher and lock them up for longer.

Restorative justice by the way is where both the criminal and the victim agree to participate in a programme of meetings where they meet face to face, or write letters to eachother so the victim can show the criminal (who has pleaded guilty and admitted to the crime) exactly how the crime made them feel. Research shows that restorative justice leaves both the criminal and the victim feeling more satisfied and a lot of victims have helped the people who victimised them become a better person (as it were).

lol, that cannot be a serious post can it? do you really think the criminal gives a damn about the victim they've robbed/attacked?

..they obviously dont, *drum roll* otherwise they wouldnt do it in the first place!

[alexxxxx]

prison numbers grew under labour (almost doubled). problem is that i don't want to go down the route like the USA who have a stupidly high prisoner population and a stupidly high crime rate (in respect to the UK). prison just turns into a fact of life for a section of the population. short prison sentences don't work - need to find a better alternative.

[-:Undertaker:-]

prison numbers grew under labour (almost doubled). problem is that i don't want to go down the route like the USA who have a stupidly high prisoner population and a stupidly high crime rate (in respect to the UK). prison just turns into a fact of life for a section of the population. short prison sentences don't work - need to find a better alternative.

You'd rather they walk the streets than be locked up in prison?

Our prison population is stupidly low, only at the 85,000 mark - to give people an idea of how small that is for a country with a population of nearly 70 million, picture a full wembley (90,000 capacity) - the prison population needs to be at least doubled to over the 150,000 mark. It is easy for you, others and the likes of Ken Clarke to sit on here and say we need criminals to write letters to their victims, but often its the poorest/oldest/youngest in deprived areas who are effected by crime which is not to mention the fact they already have pretty awful lives.

Our prison population is already too soft and overstretched, meaning that as Alan Jonhson said on Question Time (I wouldnt usually agree with any Labour minister regarding crime and justice) often all approaches such as community service have already been attempted with these people and the only thing left is prison. I think a system where 'the more you repeat your offences, the harsher the sentences become' would work.

The last prison expansion scheme was brought in by Michael Howard and hes right, prison does work.

The solution is very simple, so let's;

• Expand the prison capacity of the United Kingdom to over the 150,000 mark.
• Spend less per prisoner as nations on the continent do.
• Remove any luxuries from prisons.
• Introduce harsher sentencing.

[alexxxxx]

You'd rather they walk the streets than be locked up in prison?

Our prison population is stupidly low, only at the 85,000 mark - to give people an idea of how small that is for a country with a population of nearly 70 million, picture a full wembley (90,000 capacity) - the prison population needs to be at least doubled to over the 150,000 mark. It is easy for you, others and the likes of Ken Clarke to sit on here and say we need criminals to write letters to their victims, but often its the poorest/oldest/youngest in deprived areas who are effected by crime which is not to mention the fact they already have pretty awful lives.

it's not low compared to other countries. people in prison cost a lot of money too.

Our prison population is already too soft and overstretched, meaning that as Alan Jonhson said on Question Time (I wouldnt usually agree with any Labour minister regarding crime and justice) often all approaches such as community service have already been attempted with these people and the only thing left is prison. I think a system where 'the more you repeat your offences, the harsher the sentences become' would work.

We need to properly make sure people aren't driven to crime in early life and when people do come out of prison they are properly rehabilitated. There's no point in putting drug addicts and alcoholics in jail and when they come out they go straight back to their dealers. People often commit crime because they can't get a job or won't get a job - that needs to change.

[

• Expand the prison capacity of the United Kingdom to over the 150,000 mark.
• Spend less per prisoner as nations on the continent do.
• Remove any luxuries from prisons.
• Introduce harsher sentencing.

I don't think any of these methods will actually improve the efficiencies of prisons. Especially building big prisons.

[/LEFT]
[/CENTER][/QUOTE]

[HotelUser]

I can't complain much about Canada's prison structure. I don't think anyone really can unless they've experienced it themselves

[Hecktix]

If you are all happy with allowing 'lesser criminals' out, free to mug your homes and terrorise your neighbourhoods then thats fine by me - but the problem is that most of you are taking this view because you live in areas with next to no crime at all and the same goes for Ken Clarke (Conservative) who has now announced this week that he wants to let thousands of prisoners released early just as Labour did when they were in office (I did say the election would make next to no difference and again i've been proved correct). Try living where people live, try living amongst these 'lesser criminals' then come back and say they should be released early.

They keep committing crimes? - build more prisons, make them tougher and lock them up for longer.



lol, that cannot be a serious post can it? do you really think the criminal gives a damn about the victim they've robbed/attacked?

..they obviously dont, *drum roll* otherwise they wouldnt do it in the first place!

You are incredibly narrow minded, people commit crimes for various reasons and it doesn't mean they are heartless or whatever, if they can redeem themselves then it is fair enough

[Colossus]

He probably didn't care/think about what he did.

Sometimes people think about what they did and what went wrong.