British government seeks permission to cut 5p off fuel prices

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12648814

UK seeks permission to cut 5p off islanders' petrol

The government is pushing ahead with plans to cut the cost of fuel for drivers on a number of Scottish islands and the Isles of Scilly. It has asked the European Commission if it can reduce fuel duty by 5p a litre, the BBC understands. Ministers are not allowed to cut fuel duty without getting permission from Brussels first. Labour said prices should be cut for all UK motorists in this month's budget - not just those in remote areas.

Ministers have hinted they could introduce a fuel duty stabiliser - which would see duty fall when the oil price goes up. Duty is due to rise again in April. The plan to ease the fuel price burden on remote rural areas was included in the coalition agreement between the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives, but there has been much speculation about whether it would be approved by the European Commission.

The planned pilot would provide a discount of up to 5p per litre of petrol and diesel on the Northern and Western isles, Argyll and Clyde islands and the Isles of Scilly. But it could be autumn before the bid is processed and voted on by finance ministers, European Commission sources have said. Western Isles councillor Donald Manford said high costs threatened businesses and was a cause of depopulation. Under the Energy Tax Directive of the European Union - which the UK is signed up to - minimum rates for fuel duty are set down and each country must have a standardised rate within their borders. UK ministers require permission to lower costs.

No, not for all of us as was hoped when you first read this (and apologies for using the BBC as a news source). But doesn't this just show yet again the amount of power that has seeped away from the elected British government into the hands of unelected politicians in Brussels of which we cannot remove from their positions. When your own government requires permission from an unelected foreign body else to lower such a simple thing as fuel prices for the electorate which voted the government in in the first place, there's something deeply deeply wrong.

I follow the subject closely and even I wasn't aware it also had powers over fuel duty prices.

Thoughts on fuel duty/requiring EU permission to lower our own fuel prices?

[Fez]

If anything then it shows just how fragile that we've become and how the European Union's bubble will burst and take us all with it. China recently lowered domestic income tax (http://www.financenews.co.uk/investm...nsumer-demand/).

This means (eventually) more cars being made and (more importantly) more oil being bought in the West. Our reliance on China has turned from a "bite the end that feeds you" into a serious concern as to what China is going to be doing.

http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/26980/page1/?a=f

When the west hits its Oil peak, expect China to make a jump into all of our gardens. Not military force but even more economic force, as they've pretty much bled the West dry so far and with the rise in oil prices (which, if there's two months still of rising, we're about to hit oil peak) this means we're about to see a very different world. It's not a matter of how or what China will do to become a superpower, it's when they'll be number one. I can see the future being the East and West, not West and East. It's thanks to measures that the EU is wanting to take, namely this, that's encouraged us to pour money into delaying the inevitable. We should be concentrating on pouring money into finding alternative sources of power, independent power, wouldn't it be great for Britain to be able to power itself, feed itself and sustain itself again? Now we're relying on debt money, toxic assets and other bits of the country we can flog off in return of surviving China's leaps and bounds up the GDP ladder.

It's going to happen and I for one think measures like this will just delay it. May have gone off a tangent there, linking this to something else entirely, but it's not really a problem with the European Union - it's the whole of the West. You can't fight an oil crisis by lowering prices, and you can't fight oil peak. At all.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The problem is though that most of the price tag that comes along on fuel costs is actually tax and not the fuel itself which is rather cheap, it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if government didnt rip us off 24/7. Government is always quick to point to 'rising oil prices' but strangely enough it never comes back down to the original price when the price of oil itself drops. The fact the EU has control over this (which you'd expect any elected government to be in control of) should be a wake up call to everybody.

I agree entirely on the China point, we have no hope of competing while we continue to make business so hard to do in the west with tax/regulation.

[alexxxxx]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12648814

UK seeks permission to cut 5p off islanders' petrol

No, not for all of us as was hoped when you first read this (and apologies for using the BBC as a news source). But doesn't this just show yet again the amount of power that has seeped away from the elected British government into the hands of unelected politicians in Brussels of which we cannot remove from their positions. When your own government requires permission from an unelected foreign body else to lower such a simple thing as fuel prices for the electorate which voted the government in in the first place, there's something deeply deeply wrong.

I follow the subject closely and even I wasn't aware it also had powers over fuel duty prices.

Thoughts on fuel duty/requiring EU permission to lower our own fuel prices?

it's to do with the fact that it would break the current rules on a non-standard tax throughout the country. this is to stop countries who have land borders with other countries lowering tax in those regions close to other countries in order to suck motorists over the border and increasing tax revenue. this will gain permission from the commission i should imagine as the islands are far from any land border.

i agree with the rules but as the UK only has 1 land border and so this does not affect us really.

[-:Undertaker:-]

it's to do with the fact that it would break the current rules on a non-standard tax throughout the country. this is to stop countries who have land borders with other countries lowering tax in those regions close to other countries in order to suck motorists over the border and increasing tax revenue. this will gain permission from the commission i should imagine as the islands are far from any land border.

i agree with the rules but as the UK only has 1 land border and so this does not affect us really.

So in other words, a sort of thieves cartel to make sure no government doesn't charge its people too little in tax?

[Eoin247]

Well i mean it's obvious what one of the main reasons that EU has to have this rule. Since there's free movement around the EU, there's very little stopping people from one country moving to another regularly.

Say in northern east Spain they reduced petrol prices, then people from south west France would be going there with tankers to get all their petrol. The government in France of course wouldn't be happy with this.

I wouldn't worry about not getting permission. For the EU to work in any way there needs to be rules like this. It's pretty obvious that in Brussels they will have no problem with this (unless theres something big i'm missing) and it's going to be approved.

I remember in my school you used to have to apply for leave to go to the town. You always got leave though, pretty much the application was just there so that the staff could keep track of what we were doing and where we were going. Kind of the same thing here in this case.

Only problem i'd have with this is that relaying this takes time, and time makes things happen slower. One of the main reasons i didn't want a coalition government with Labour in Ireland. They are going to be spending way to much time talking as a result of party differences.

I think this though, is just unneccesarily attacking the EU.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well i mean it's obvious what one of the main reasons that EU has to have this rule. Since there's free movement around the EU, there's very little stopping people from one country moving to another regularly.

Say in northern east Spain they reduced petrol prices, then people from south west France would be going there with tankers to get all their petrol. The government in France of course wouldn't be happy with this.

I wouldn't worry about not getting permission. For the EU to work in any way there needs to be rules like this. It's pretty obvious that in Brussels they will have no problem with this (unless theres something big i'm missing) and it's going to be approved.

I remember in my school you used to have to apply for leave to go to the town. You always got leave though, pretty much the application was just there so that the staff could keep track of what we were doing and where we were going. Kind of the same thing here in this case.

Only problem i'd have with this is that relaying this takes time, and time makes things happen slower. One of the main reasons i didn't want a coalition government with Labour in Ireland. They are going to be spending way to much time talking as a result of party differences.

I think this though, is just unneccesarily attacking the EU.

Hang on a second, whats wrong with people crossing a 'free border' in order to save themselves a bit of money? If governments do not like people crossing borders for lower priced fuel because their own fuel is ridiculously over-taxed, then they should lower the tax on the fuel. As the video above states, its a sort of 'thieves cartel' in order to make sure no government steals too little tax from its people.

Yet again, hurting who? the people - the little guys.

[alexxxxx]

So in other words, a sort of thieves cartel to make sure no government doesn't charge its people too little in tax?

well not exactly, most places in europe have less fuel tax than us. imagine this, country A decides to lower fuel tax in a region close to country B in order to increase tax revenues at the expense of country B's. They make it necessary to drop the tax all over the country. Country A could decide not to put a tax at all, like Luxembourg (member of the EU). A friend at Uni who lives there says that there is no tax on alcohol or cigarettes there. Hardly the EU telling people to fleece their citizens of every euro cent they have Though i am aware that there is min limits on VAT.

[Eoin247]

So in other words, a sort of thieves cartel to make sure no government doesn't charge its people too little in tax?

As we are in the EU we have free movement between members, as i said this is a understandable rule especially for more mainland countries.

---------- Post added 04-03-2011 at 07:59 PM ----------

Hang on a second, whats wrong with people crossing a 'free border' in order to save themselves a bit of money?

For you, me and the average citizen we find nothing wrong with it. However you got to think about why they have this rule, which is for governments.

[-:Undertaker:-]

well not exactly, most places in europe have less fuel tax than us. imagine this, country A decides to lower fuel tax in a region close to country B in order to increase tax revenues at the expense of country B's. They make it necessary to drop the tax all over the country. Country A could decide not to put a tax at all, like Luxembourg (member of the EU). A friend at Uni who lives there says that there is no tax on alcohol or cigarettes there. Hardly the EU telling people to fleece their citizens of every euro cent they have Though i am aware that there is min limits on VAT.

I thought that was the supposed benefit of the 'free market' that we could apparently look for lower prices around the European Union. As I said before, if country A's government wants to rip its people off and the people refuse to pay it, then shame on country A for attempting to rip its people off and good on country B for taking advantage (you know, the free market?) and giving the over-taxed citizens of country A a chance to pay less for their fuel. But of course that can't happen thanks to the EU and its supposed 'free' market, which is anything but free.

And as for ciggies and drink - i'll give it 5 years.

As we are in the EU we have free movement between members, as i said this is a neccesary rule especially for more mainland countries.

Why is it neccessary to rip everyone off equally? if a country wishes to charge its citizens less for fuel, then what exactly is wrong with that?