Man shoots own son dead in attempted 'burglary'...

[Kardan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19756499

There was a debate on the forum a few weeks back about whether civilians should have access to firearms in the UK... I guess this just backs up what some people were saying in that thread...

[efq]

OOOH.

I just read it, the story is confusing, it makes out like his son was dressed as a burglar...
Hmm yeah I guess it backs it up.

[GommeInc]

Basically the one who used the firearm thought it was an attempted burglary when in actual fact it wasn't and he over-reacted. In the Courts, he might go straight to prison, because in order for it to be attempted burlgary he needs to actually try and break into the house. As the story suggests, he was just walking around the premises which would only be trespass. None of this matters though as someone who shouldn't have a gun because he clearly hasn't got the mental capacity to use it has shot down an innocent person who actually has right to use that property, and is his son

[-:Undertaker:-]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19756499

There was a debate on the forum a few weeks back about whether civilians should have access to firearms in the UK... I guess this just backs up what some people were saying in that thread...

Yes thats right, one freak incident which is a tragic accident thus condemns the thousands of holders of a weapon.

Why is it that guns and incidents involving them provoke a weird and out of proportion emotional response from many on here and in the public? if one only looks at statistics ranging from certain sports to guns, to knives and car deaths then they would see that deaths via guns aren't even anything to statistically worry about - but then maybe its the self rightousness which many feel when they take a 'stand' against gun ownership.

In a free society and don't like guns? then don't own one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...fear-life.html

.... thankfully though, the Lord Chief Justice has come out and said people have a right to defend their homes - and the two who attempted a break in a few weeks ago and who were shot by the property owner, have been sent to prison... which is how it should work.

Finally a victory of the victims over the wrong in this country, and boy do I side with the victims - as should everybody with a head screwed on.

[GommeInc]

Why is it that guns and incidents involving them provoke a weird and out of proportion emotional response from many on here and in the public? if one only looks at statistics ranging from certain sports to guns, to knives and car deaths then they would see that deaths via guns aren't even anything to statistically worry about - but then maybe its the self rightousness which many feel when they take a 'stand' against gun ownership.

Have you not simply supported why low gun ownership is a good thing by saying that? Deaths via guns are low because there are hardly any about, which is a good thing as you seem to be suggesting. Although I'm sure you're usually the one saying statistics are usually tampered with and are therefore unreliable :/

[-:Undertaker:-]

Have you not simply supported why low gun ownership is a good thing by saying that? Deaths via guns are low because there are hardly any about, which is a good thing as you seem to be suggesting.

No, because compare with countries such as Switzerland and Norway which have very lax gun laws - the notion that gun ownership causes more gun crime is a fallacy. If you allow law abiding people to own guns, then naturally you will have little or no change in the statistics - only against those breaking onto property, in which case they deserve it fully.

Deaths of those breaking into private property is entirely that of their own fault, and deserves little if any sympathy. The only people who have compassion from me are the victims of criminality across this country who are denied the right to defend themselves and their property.

Although I'm sure you're usually the one saying statistics are usually tampered with and are therefore unreliable :/

Almost all government statistics are fiddled as are most things the government says, if i'm supposed to be portrayed as a crackpot or mad for saying this then just cast your mind to the Iraq War, inflation figures, global warming, debt figures, spending figures, taxation figures yada yada and so on.

[dbgtz]

No, because compare with countries such as Switzerland and Norway which have very lax gun laws - the notion that gun ownership causes more gun crime is a fallacy. If you allow law abiding people to own guns, then naturally you will have little or no change in the statistics - only against those breaking onto property, in which case they deserve it fully.

Deaths of those breaking into private property is entirely that of their own fault, and deserves little if any sympathy. The only people who have compassion from me are the victims of criminality across this country who are denied the right to defend themselves and their property.



Almost all government statistics are fiddled as are most things the government says, if i'm supposed to be portrayed as a crackpot or mad for saying this then just cast your mind to the Iraq War, inflation figures, global warming, debt figures, spending figures, taxation figures yada yada and so on.

You can keep saying Switzerland and Norway which have very lax gun laws bla bla but it doesn't mean the people in the UK are anything like them at all and you should stop living in this fantasy that everyone would instantly behave or that every person would be able to defend themself.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You can keep saying Switzerland and Norway which have very lax gun laws bla bla but it doesn't mean the people in the UK are anything like them at all and you should stop living in this fantasy that everyone would instantly behave or that every person would be able to defend themself.

Where did I claim either of those?

As usual however, as politicians do whenever they like to shut down debate, they simply claim the people cannot be trusted and that they know better - as with so many other subjects (the EU for one in regards to referendum results).

Personally I trust British subjects because they know best how to defend themselves and keep their families safe than I or any government does.

[dbgtz]

Where did I claim either of those?

You're always claiming crime would be lower if guns were allowed for all.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You're always claiming crime would be lower if guns were allowed for all.

Indeed, but I never have made the claim (as you make out) that crime would cease if guns were legalised for law abiding people.

Either way, we could argue about the effect on crime until the cows come home - the fact is, that in a free society there will be risks in regards to safety but that the individual or family ought to be allowed to arm themselves to protect their families and property.

And in a free society, if you don't like it - then you can simply opt to not have a gun. It really is as simple as that.