Armed Forces to be exempted from ECHR

[-:Undertaker:-]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-human-rights

Plan for UK military to opt out of European convention on human rights

PM and defence secretary will announce idea for future conflicts to curb an ‘industry of vexatious claims’ against soldiers

Controversial plans for the military to opt out from the European convention on human rights (ECHR) during future conflicts will be introduced by ministers, to see off what the prime minister described as an “industry of vexatious claims” against soldiers.

The long-mooted idea will be announced on Tuesday at the Conservative party conference by Theresa May and the defence secretary, Michael Fallon, although it was immediately criticised by human rights groups who said it was based on a false narrative of spurious lawsuits.

May said the change would “put an end to the industry of vexatious claims that has pursued those who served in previous conflicts”. It would be implemented by introducing a “presumption to derogate” from the ECHR in warfare.

Fallon, in comments released ahead of his conference speech, said: “Our legal system has been abused to level false charges against our troops on an industrial scale.”

He added: “It has caused significant distress to people who risked their lives to protect us, it has cost the taxpayer millions and there is a real risk it will stop our armed forces doing their job.”

The military and some right-leaning thinktanks have long pushed for the move, arguing that a series of court cases focused on the actions of UK troops in Iraq and Afghanistan has cost the Ministry of Defence (MoD) huge sums.

The government says the litigation has cost the MoD more than £100m since 2004. Ministers say this has happened because the jurisdiction of the ECHR has been extended to conflict zones, in part due to the efforts of a handful of law firms.

Derogating from the ECHR in times of war or public emergency is permitted under the rules of the Council of Europe, which oversees the Strasbourg-based institution.

Certain key convention rights – such as the prohibition against torture – nonetheless remain in place even if the secretary general of the Council of Europe has been informed in advance of a temporary derogation.

Good.

I said that the only battle left in terms of sovereignty was the battle to remove us from the European Court of Human Rights which is not an EU court but which is a foreign court nevertheless. It's known PM May wants out of the ECHR, but this seems to have been put on ice for the moment given the process of withdrawal from the European Union.

I guess you could say this is a first step to ECHR withdrawal - hopefully we'll see such a commitment put in the next Conservative manifesto in 2020. Full sovereignty restored and an end to the racket of left wing human rights lawyers.

Thoughts?

[dbgtz]

I don't see how this is a good thing. Being held to more international standards when you send forces into another country should be the norm. This just sounds corrupt quite honestly.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't see how this is a good thing. Being held to more international standards when you send forces into another country should be the norm. This just sounds corrupt quite honestly.

"International standards" like how Saudi Arabia sits on the UN Human Rights Group?

We don't need to be held to international standards because we're better than that. If you have more faith in an international court consisting of (judges) Russians, Lithuanians, Greeks, Azerbaijanians, Albanians and Turks then well that's your call.

[dbgtz]

"International standards" like how Saudi Arabia sits on the UN Human Rights Group?

We don't need to be held to international standards because we're better than that. If you have more faith in an international court consisting of (judges) Russians, Lithuanians, Greeks, Azerbaijanians, Albanians and Turks then well that's your call.

UN =/= ECHR. I trust in someone more who is further distanced from the case. Also, please do feel free to tell me how we are better than them, with examples

[-:Undertaker:-]

UN =/= ECHR. I trust in someone more who is further distanced from the case.

aka someone who has completely different ideas on law to ourselves.

Hence the absurd ruling on prisoners votes which is completely at odds with our parliamentary system yet the ECHR ruled that.

Also, please do feel free to tell me how we are better than them, with examples

Many countries in even supposed first-world Europe don't even have the common law concept of no detention without trial which is one of the most basic freedoms ever that came about in this country without a foreign court. There's been numerous cases like this for example with the awful European Arrest Warrant. Need I explain why you might not want to find yourself in front a Russian, Albanian or Turkish court?

[dbgtz]

aka someone who has completely different ideas on law to ourselves.

Hence the absurd ruling on prisoners votes which is completely at odds with our parliamentary system yet the ECHR ruled that.

They might have a different idea, but it's a good thing they're not the ones who made the particular laws then They would've ruled it based on existing principles since I'm certain they don't create law.

Many countries in even supposed first-world Europe don't even have the common law concept of no detention without trial which is one of the most basic freedoms ever that came about in this country without a foreign court. There's been numerous cases like this for example with the awful European Arrest Warrant. Need I explain why you might not want to find yourself in front a Russian, Albanian or Turkish court?

As far as I see in that particular example, that has nothing to do with the ECHR. The EAW, from what I see, is tied to EU membership which isn't the same thing. Ultimately, the ECHR is not a Russian, an Albanian nor a Turkish court so stop spinning it like it is.
You also realise we have pretty much detention without trial in situations, yes?

Tbh I'm kind of tired so I might be wrong in places so I will probably end up checking some time tomorrow.

Also it's dbgtz :/