Concerning rule A33

[Catzsy]

Thats English?
See if they don't allow Gaelic or Welsh.
Can they really allow that?
Ty Danny.

That is colloqualism not a different language.


Edited by Yoshimitsui (Super Moderator): Posts merged due to forum lag

[jrh2002]

I was thinking this over and have had another thought oh god help us you might think lol but....

If you are writing in welsh and it is written backwards to english?

You would write it and then have to write it word for word in english so we knew what each word meant (to help educate the want to be welsh speakers) and then write out its translation?

[nvrspk4]

You say no. Because you want the whole community to be able to get involved. But since we've already come up with a solution to this. (Post next to it in English) Then surely they could just join in without the Welsh/Gaelic (I think its unlikely that they would but...the option is there). For example,

Beacon: Halo - Hello
Blaine: Cimar a tha thu? - How are you?
Bob: Good thanks. You? (obviously he has no need to post a translation)

Yet another solution.

What happens when somebody posts a skewed translation, something that could be translated both ways, and one person thinks its offensive, and the other does not?

Damn you Nvr, everytime i write a long post you have to reply with one! , Just not fair i tell you! (also, there is a chance you will get a million 'bucks' but the chance of changing the rule is bigger and also easier..... if it makes you feel better money wise theres a penny in my bed... not sure how it got there)

I'm sorry!! But I'm saving trees! Imagine if this was written communications. I think my posts might have been enough to decimate a small forest of all its wood to make the paper I'll take the penny! Maybe its change from...it was in your bed right? :eusa_whis But on a more serious note, a want fills a need. It has to be a relevant and substantive need. I've posed this question again and again, but what is the need for speaking Welsh - other than to celebrate and learn the language?

Firstly, i respect that she can post her own view but i don't feel that posting in such a way is the way to understand others and to progress on the forum,

Now you see, that's different, because you stated "I don't feel". Personally, she does have the right to say that...you just might not agree. That doesn't mean she can't say it

I'd like to make it clear that i probebly woudn't speak another language on this forum anyway but instead i'm arguing because its still the right thing to do is to allow other languages to be spoken on the forum.

why do we allow people to post on the subject of television.... is it because people like to talk about whats on tv?

why do we allow people to post spam.... is it because you need a place to express randomness that dosn't fit anywhere else

Why should we allow people to post in a British national language.... because thats what they want to do, much like people want to discuss tv or th randomness that doesn't fit anywhere else thy wish to discuss another language

While I don't agree with your assertion, I do applaud you on making an attempt to make this an effective argument by establishing a need. The number of people, however, who *want* to discuss this British language are in the minority. Also, as far as practicality is concerned, moderating a forum about TV does not cause us that much extra work (other than moderating the forum itself). This proposal does

If in the end it just boils down to your worried that people will abuse the rule change perhaps trialing the change to see if it goes well, even if 1 or 2 people start speaking Welsh to each other randomly in the spam section and no one else does surely letting thoose two people be happy is better then just making the cold hand of Nvr say no (i realise its not you personally i just really wanted to say the cold hand of nvr)

We are worried that people will abuse it...because problems have occurred previously. We aren't basing this on paranoia, we're basing it on a reaction to previous events. And if only two members are talking Welsh, that creates an elite. Also, there is a problem when two members want to speak Welsh and ten members don't want Welsh spoken.

sometimes things don't have to have real functionality to make us happy, how about to allow people to speak just to look nice... allowing more people to speak a languge is not divercity, that would be making them go somewhere else but still involving them in the community is what would be a stronger comunity anyway

Things with no real functions to make people happy is one thing...but in that case it has a functionality. What things on this forum don't have functionalities, and don't fit a need? However, the things that "don't have functionalities but are just for fun" are all well and good, but when they create a disproportionate amount of work for a very small group of people, problems begin to arise.

the idea of saying that you'd have to get mods to go through translaters is a waste of time i'm not sure is quite true, if it meant people (even for the sake of a small group of people) i would personally happy mointor it even into busy day because i don't believe that a no is ever good enough and that both sides should atlast attempt to meet each other half way over the problem rather then the standard of the person(s) who agree with the idea changing it constantly to try and please the staff while the staff just sit there (or in nvrs case reply to my posts with an even larger post) with alot of words which still boil down to the conclusion of a no

Translators don't matter, because someone would have to be an adept at the langauge among the moderation staff, because they would have to make a judgement based on the situation a comment was made in. For example, its very difficult to comprehend humor and sarcasm in other langauges. This produces language barriers.

Pycan made some very good points that I agree with, but for want of keeping this as concise as possible, instead of quoting it all and saying "I AGREE!" I'll just put it here

Danny if that slang was your attempt at another language that was so poor i may have to cry.

I think it was a...HIGHLY...modified form of English

The point is people can use slang now and get around the filters, i doubt people will write it in another langauge... considering the filter could be added to to include forign swears...

People will use aphorisms, metaphors, etc. If you've ever had a Korean immigrant who doesn't speak English at your school (or at least didn't when they came), I'm sure you're aware of all the wierd sayings in our language that they don't get (our language being English )

the rule would have to be changed before a forum could be created or people could be infacted just for saying Hello in another langauge...

Actually things such as Hello in another language are specifically excepted from the rule. I believe its written in the rule itself.

Or just leave it and when it comes up as an offense to someone, then take action like they do with English slang which may offend another person "/

We want to act proactively, as opposed to responding to things. The reason for this is that if we operate solely on an as-reported basis, by the time we get a report saying "Hey, can you check this? I think there's a chance it might be rude." there's a good chance that whoever it was aimed at has seen it, and by the time a moderator can respond, its usually blown up into a full-blown argument, which we would rather avoid.

I understand why it is there, but what I understand the reason for its existence is less understandable than not having it "/

But what is the reason for not having it, as opposed to simply being granted the right to fill no existing need when there is no issue with the status quo?

Thats English?
See if they don't allow Gaelic or Welsh.
Can they really allow that?
Ty Danny.

Sorry, we can't control the l33tspeakers. They're just too uber for us

[le harry]

It's not that hard to speak English on an english forum..

[Lycan]

Oh Nvr... why ruin my debating fun, you know i can just come with new and exciting ways to reform my question and push it across to you


The flight simulator forum recently added to the forum only has about 20 posties in it (of which i am one... sadly another is Mad) this was added because of alot of recent threads about flight simulation.

sadly there cannnot be alot of threads of speaking another language on this forum without it being in the education section and to be honest... i'm avoiding education like students should. the rule stops any real show of need for the forum.

Again you discuss functionality.

You won't accept looks nice, or that people (how small based on thoose who have posted in this topic) want it , or that it could boost membership by opening the door to thoose who wish to talk in another language.

So what am i meant to push you to do.. the problem that you've established is that it has no real use (which we all know it does and thats just the last thing you can hold onto)
that it would create extra work.... am i allowed to call you lazy? a bit of extra work hurts nobody, hell you could consider hiring a second reputation guy , i've had two pictures of .... in my rep for 24 hours!

surely the hiring on another staff member to mointor such areas would be wise, and i think you assume that if someone swears or becomes abusive in welsh that other welsh speaking people won't report it.... welsh speakers have respect for forum rules as well.. the line doesn't just stop at English speakers.

On the topic of Koreon stupids, i have had a nice South korean follow me around town smiling quite strangly at me.. for an hour before smiling at a baby then a dog then turning around, if i had known how to say Hello i would of. but the point is you keep mentioning languages other then the two proposed to be added. Stick to Welsh and Galic nvr... you claim there a minority so surely the few people who did use it woudn't be the type to get you.

i'd like to thnak this topic for going for so long that know my gf wishes to learn welsh.

So in the end i feel i'm fighting a loosing battle but for as long as a nvr replies butching my response into tiny little phrases to comment on i shall return! (*ponders* if you didn't have teh quote in... i wonder how big your response would be)

to save me time putting this in another thread, yesturday around midday for several hours no moderators or staff were on and .... rude pictures were cropping up everywhere and i still have 2 in my rep! , would it be possible to impliment a time tabling system for moderators or.. heaven forbid hire 1 or 2 super moderators who would be able to mointor the forum during the day while the others are at educational institutions (i don't feel the same about the night as the american nvr is about browling) if not can we get an extra reputation manager to sort out the almost constant blacklog (now upto 72) including mine and others ... reputation pictures

[nvrspk4]

Oh Nvr... why ruin my debating fun, you know i can just come with new and exciting ways to reform my question and push it across to you

Well, I find it fun I enjoy debating, if you haven't guessed by now. Its my personal opinion that a topic should always be debated, whether I agree or disagree, because it makes the topic better. Without debate, nobody exposes the flaws, and the proposition falls flat on its face within the first week.

The flight simulator forum recently added to the forum only has about 20 posties in it (of which i am one... sadly another is Mad) this was added because of alot of recent threads about flight simulation.

I'd probably contest that there are more than 20 posts in it...there are 411 threads. If you mean twenty posters, I'd probably contend that too. However a fundamental difference is that is for discussion of a subject, not for the abstract use of a language. What I believe you are asking for is a Spam Forum for the Welsh language. So basically, you're repeating the "Allow Welsh for the sake of speaking Welsh" argument, which basically has no grounds to it

sadly there cannnot be alot of threads of speaking another language on this forum without it being in the education section and to be honest... i'm avoiding education like students should. the rule stops any real show of need for the forum.

As I said, if you look back on this thread, I see about 5 people advocating this, and about 20 people against it. Here's another difference between here and flightsim. When the thread was created asking for that forum every single person that replied was in favor of it - even those who didn't use it. Do you see why there's an issue with implementing this? The majority is against it.

Again you discuss functionality.

You won't accept looks nice, or that people (how small based on thoose who have posted in this topic) want it , or that it could boost membership by opening the door to thoose who wish to talk in another language.

We aren't aiming to boost our membership by offering our board as a haven for Welsh to convene. We want to boost our board on the basis that we provide a kind community and provide good Habbo-based discussion services.

So what am i meant to push you to do.. the problem that you've established is that it has no real use (which we all know it does and thats just the last thing you can hold onto)

The problem is that it has no use beyond just being able to speak it. And the problem I see is why give something just for the purpose of being able to do it, instead of filling a need. I believe the correct terminology is a truism. And a truism is utterly pointless.

that it would create extra work.... am i allowed to call you lazy? a bit of extra work hurts nobody, hell you could consider hiring a second reputation guy , i've had two pictures of .... in my rep for 24 hours!

You are allowed to call me lazy...if you know what you're talking about. No offense intended, but an average of 40-50 PMs and a few departments to sort out on top of the other stuff is enough work for me! The moderators have a lot to do as well.

As far as reputation goes, apologies for that, Joshuar has resigned and we are looking for a replacement (hence why you haven't seen the announcement yet.) If you have a pressing reputation issue (such as innapropriate images) feel free to PM me. Regular pointless rep will have to wait for the moment. I've removed those two reps you were sent and run a query on reps sent by those members and removed all the rude image reps they sent out (See, I'm not afraid of work, I just am against pointless work.)

surely the hiring on another staff member to mointor such areas would be wise, and i think you assume that if someone swears or becomes abusive in welsh that other welsh speaking people won't report it.... welsh speakers have respect for forum rules as well.. the line doesn't just stop at English speakers.

We'd then need to give a Welsh-speaker Super Moderator perms for the express purpose of moderating the Welsh. So we create a Super Mod position to watch over how many people?

On the topic of Koreon stupids, i have had a nice South korean follow me around town smiling quite strangly at me.. for an hour before smiling at a baby then a dog then turning around, if i had known how to say Hello i would of. but the point is you keep mentioning languages other then the two proposed to be added. Stick to Welsh and Galic nvr... you claim there a minority so surely the few people who did use it woudn't be the type to get you.

I was using Koreans as a parallel because the Welsh 99% of the time know English, while English-speakers do not know Welsh. Koreans do not know English. I was not using it as an example of a case under the rule, but as a parallel to show what I'm talking about.

i'd like to thnak this topic for going for so long that know my gf wishes to learn welsh.

No problem at all. I'm sure you've found alternate ways to educate her on the topic than a seperate forum on Habbox?

So in the end i feel i'm fighting a loosing battle but for as long as a nvr replies butching my response into tiny little phrases to comment on i shall return! (*ponders* if you didn't have teh quote in... i wonder how big your response would be)

You pretty much are fighting a losing battle, the other management have spoken, I reply solely because I don't like people to think I'm ignoring your arguments...plus to not reply to a post that long and let the thread die would be rather cruel. I don't know how long it would be. I keep it in as its easier instead of scrolling back and forth, I can have the quote right in front of me. Scrolling back and forth sometimes makes me miss things too, and people say " OMGZ SKEMMER YOU DELIBERATELY IGNORED THIS POINT!!"

to save me time putting this in another thread, yesturday around midday for several hours no moderators or staff were on and .... rude pictures were cropping up everywhere and i still have 2 in my rep! , would it be possible to impliment a time tabling system for moderators or.. heaven forbid hire 1 or 2 super moderators who would be able to mointor the forum during the day while the others are at educational institutions (i don't feel the same about the night as the american nvr is about browling) if not can we get an extra reputation manager to sort out the almost constant blacklog (now upto 72) including mine and others ... reputation pictures

I've sorted the pictures but the pointless reputation will have to wait.

I've explained the reason for the delay above.

[Lycan]

by posties i meant poeople that post, just my own terminology, how about changing the rule to allow welsh (among other languages) to be spoken in the spam forum then? , we all know must of whats spoken in tehre is gibberish anyway


My gf sadly has turned to the bbc website and i have sent her a book i picked up in wales too years ago named "Welsh is fun" (i beg to differ, not fun, not easy to learn)

Sad to see Joshuar go, although i hve disbuted his job in the past and that he wasn't doing it hearing he resigned is the last thing i wanted to see, i know i'd happily volenteer for the job at hand but we both know a role like that deserves several years of Habbox staff trust and atleast the bribe of a lollypop.

we both know that replying to just make sure i don't feel ignored is rubbish, as you just love to debate (like you already said and much the same way i do) i believe infact that this is some deep harbour of love to my arguments which don't admit defeat and instead extend predefeat on for another 5 minutes.

i can understand the cutting of quotes i personally just read through the entire thing , write an entire thing then re read some areas i wish to make a closer attension to.

Anyway: The idea was not to create a new forum for welsh speakers (among other languages) but to change the rules so they woudn't get banned surely allowing them to speak in the spam section woudn't cause anymore grief then the spammers already do. the big chance is that it won't be thoose wanting to speak anothr language who cause the problem but instead others on the forum immature enough (or just expressing their views... you choice) and are normally thoose who hve already offended.

Oh and in respect to your comment that koreons do not speak English, you should watch Lost, and speak to the smiley Koreon guy who kept following me and waving... the guy was like 60... never have i been so scared....


I look forward to our next debate and your next reply.

[nvrspk4]

by posties i meant poeople that post, just my own terminology, how about changing the rule to allow welsh (among other languages) to be spoken in the spam forum then? , we all know must of whats spoken in tehre is gibberish anyway

Most of what's spoken in there is gibberish, but most of the bullying and rulebreaking goes on there too, so I don't think that would be wise

My gf sadly has turned to the bbc website and i have sent her a book i picked up in wales too years ago named "Welsh is fun" (i beg to differ, not fun, not easy to learn)

Buy her a free course over the internet or at a camp somewhere for her birthday / Christmas! (Whichever comes first.)

Sad to see Joshuar go, although i hve disbuted his job in the past and that he wasn't doing it hearing he resigned is the last thing i wanted to see, i know i'd happily volenteer for the job at hand but we both know a role like that deserves several years of Habbox staff trust and atleast the bribe of a lollypop.

Erm actually lollipops only get you the Graphics Designer job, for MOD you need at least a house, for Super Mod, a Mansion, and if you're hoping to become an Admin you need a small island to donate to the (A)GMs. I had to donate the country of Kazakhstan to become an AGM

we both know that replying to just make sure i don't feel ignored is rubbish, as you just love to debate (like you already said and much the same way i do) i believe infact that this is some deep harbour of love to my arguments which don't admit defeat and instead extend predefeat on for another 5 minutes.

I love to debate but its also to stop people from feeling ignored. Honestly. If you see, only you and I are replying now. Most others gave up. If I didn't reply to this thread, it would slowly die, and the topic would be forgotten. Of course, it may also be that I don't like letting people put in the last argument

i can understand the cutting of quotes i personally just read through the entire thing , write an entire thing then re read some areas i wish to make a closer attension to.

Fair enough, to each their own.

Anyway: The idea was not to create a new forum for welsh speakers (among other languages) but to change the rules so they woudn't get banned surely allowing them to speak in the spam section woudn't cause anymore grief then the spammers already do. the big chance is that it won't be thoose wanting to speak anothr language who cause the problem but instead others on the forum immature enough (or just expressing their views... you choice) and are normally thoose who hve already offended.

The spam section is probably the most immature section on the forum. Not because its regulars are necessarily immature (though some are) but the essence of the name seems to attract all the worst of our members. Thus, allowing Welsh there would be the worst place, as that's the most common area people might use things to avoid the rules in.

Oh and in respect to your comment that koreons do not speak English, you should watch Lost, and speak to the smiley Koreon guy who kept following me and waving... the guy was like 60... never have i been so scared....

SOME Koreans that move to the United States or United Kingdom don't speak English. Not all of them

[Lycan]

If most of the forum rulebreaking goes on there perhaps rules should focus on them to control the people rather then rules like the language having to suffer because of the rudness and bullying.

lol, she won't tell me what she wants for christmas... i just know that its going to be a few weeks before Christmas where everywhere has sold out of what she wants she'll tell me!.... maybe i could buy her some welsh guy.... how much are the welsh?


When i read that i thought you said "hus, allowing The Welsh there would be the worst place"
Anyway, surely with the attension of the moderator and supermoderators whoose job it is to mointor the area anyway there won't be any extra harm. and what about a trial, not changing the rules but not enforcing it ether, if no one talks in welsh ~(among other langauges) fair enough and if the languages are soley used as a 'WOMD' (Welsh of Mass Distruction) then no harm done as the rule can be inforced again

considering me and you can only talk about intheory this can happen and that can happen surely a test of the idea would be a better one?

Also: What kind of Island..... Normally beer money works... and there is nothing wrong with a lollypop bribe at at level of work.

some Koreons speak english? aka Most of South Korea who after the Koreon war and the influx of American and Europeon tourists, some areas of the country can speak English (Other then 'What do you know, Joe')

[Grig]

This wouldn't be implemented as it causes frustrations to other members, they could also easily swear or spam in that language without the mod knowing.