What do blind people dream about?

[LoveToStack]

I've got no idea. However it must be hard and frustrating not being able to dream like other people.

I dont think it'd be frustrating. I mean this in the literal sense, they don't know what they're missing.
I wonder if they aren't bound like we are in terms of imagination, like, try as you may there's no way your or I could ever imagine a totally different colour to any ever seen but maybe blind people can. Still, our mind, blind or not, is probably bound by what is within the visable spectrum of light.

[Malachy]

I dont think it'd be frustrating. I mean this in the literal sense, they don't know what they're missing.

I suppose, but from where I'm standing I'm actually frustrated for them .

[Indie-Dan]

The usual, probs.... CP, beastiality, goatse, etc.


Haha nah seriously, they probably dream about what they think everything looks like (assuming they were born blind) or dream about what they seen before they became blind.

[Virgin Mary]

According to some, they see colours and shapes in their mind. They can tell you what shapes they saw, but because a colour needs to be seen to be known, they don't know what to call it. The mind can paint it's own pictures without eyesight, there's just no realism to them, if that makes sense? Like they can imagine a person but they're very vivid representations on what they perceive to be a person, so basic shapes like the outline of the body - no major details like you would get on faces, or hair, but it varies on the person.

Surely that's impossible. What reference point would they base the colours and shapes on? They can feel and hear things but they have no visual recollection if they've always been blind. They've never seen a single colour so where would the colours they see and use to build up an image come from?

[LoveToStack]

I think it'd be impossible to find out what a, from birth, blind person dreamt of because as you say they have no starting point. They can't say whether it's black and white or multicoloured or otherwise. It's confusing just thinking about it.

[GommeInc]

Surely that's impossible. What reference point would they base the colours and shapes on? They can feel and hear things but they have no visual recollection if they've always been blind. They've never seen a single colour so where would the colours they see and use to build up an image come from?

Close your eyes and touch your nose, eye sockets, mouth and cheeks, now keep them close and imagine how they will shape up. Now keep them closed and put your hands on a table and start making your own shapes out of them. The mind will imagine the shapes and thus create objects. Suggesting a blind person cannot do this would suggest they have no control over their arms... They're blind, it doesn't mean they lack co-ordination skills. If they want to touch their forehead with the point of their finger, they can, provided they have proper motor skills, which the majority do have - they're visually impared, not physically.

The human mind can shape up how images will look when touching external objects, it's how they read brail, they learn

There's more chance of them perceiving colours in the mind than an argument against it, for the simple reason that colours are an internal and external sensation, you don't have to see them to picture a colour. I think it was either Hume or Descartes who came up with the "missing shade of blue" argument, which is very relevant to that. If we lined up every shade of blue, except for one, we can imagine how it will look using the power of the mind. The only argument against this is that a blind person would not have a name for the colours, and are unlikely to put colours in the right place, because they do not know what the colours look like in correlation to how a person sees them in the external world.

[Virgin Mary]

Close your eyes and touch your nose, eye sockets, mouth and cheeks, now keep them close and imagine how they will shape up. Now keep them closed and put your hands on a table and start making your own shapes out of them. The mind will imagine the shapes and thus create objects. Suggesting a blind person cannot do this would suggest they have no control over their arms... They're blind, it doesn't mean they lack co-ordination skills. If they want to touch their forehead with the point of their finger, they can, provided they have proper motor skills, which the majority do have - they're visually impared, not physically.

The human mind can shape up how images will look when touching external objects, it's how they read brail, they learn

There's more chance of them perceiving colours in the mind than an argument against it, for the simple reason that colours are an internal and external sensation, you don't have to see them to picture a colour. I think it was either Hume or Descartes who came up with the "missing shade of blue" argument, which is very relevant to that. If we lined up every shade of blue, except for one, we can imagine how it will look using the power of the mind. The only argument against this is that a blind person would not have a name for the colours, and are unlikely to put colours in the right place, because they do not know what the colours look like in correlation to how a person sees them in the external world.

I know that they can feel objects but it's their lack of visual experience that makes me doubt they could see anything, it's hard to explain but I mean the outlines and what forms the shape rather than the shape itself. The same argument applies to colours - if they've never seen a colour how could their brain perceive what one looks like? When you ask people what aliens or god looks like they roughly base it on humans or amalgamating things they've seen. I don't think the imagination can work unless it has a foundation to base itself on.

[GommeInc]

I know that they can feel objects but it's their lack of visual experience that makes me doubt they could see anything, it's hard to explain but I mean the outlines and what forms the shape rather than the shape itself. The same argument applies to colours - if they've never seen a colour how could their brain perceive what one looks like? When you ask people what aliens or god looks like they roughly base it on humans or amalgamating things they've seen. I don't think the imagination can work unless it has a foundation to base itself on.

I'm guessing you've not been to a play group for children and even adults who were born blind?

They get given tasks to help them understand an external world through touch, sound and smell. Although colour is something you can't describe without seeing them, some do tell stories of different swirls of lights in their dreams, which others can only really be describe as different colours of lights because they can easily describe the other aspects, the shapes for example. The key word is 'different,' if they can describe the shapes and sensations they can see in their dreams, any other information like "I saw this shape which was different to this shape, but it looked the same" can only be understood as a possible colour change.

One favourable task for these play groups is holding and feeling shapes and then removing these shapes and seeing if they can remake them by telling the leader what they felt and remaking them using their hands as guidance. A cube can be drawn up using hands while they are asked for feedback on what shape they are doing, what it is made up of etc. So a cube would be described as an item with 6 sides.

It's similar to walking around in the dark in your house, but it's easier for us to understand what a shape is before a blind person because we've seen it with our eyes before hand and may have remembered the placement of items through habit. Like if we were walking around a living room, we could feel around and pick up information through touch, like a TV, fireplace or sofa and dodge these items as we walk around. Not to say it's difficult for a blind person, they could be taught what these items are in their own house and become familiar with these items and draw up their own conclusions in another place.

Colour can never really be described, other than for generic items or items familiar to them, like their own skin colour, eyes, room etc. Granted they would never of seen these, they can only ever trust their carers, guardians and parents that this information is accurate and picture in their mind the chair and the bed they sleep on, unless they feel around their room understnading information about it.

Saying they can't understand shapes when they haven't seen them kinda destroys the reason they use brail, they can feel the writing and make words with them and remember them, which is why objects they are accustom to can be remembered

[Wootzeh]

I'm guessing you've not been to a play group for children and even adults who were born blind?

They get given tasks to help them understand an external world through touch, sound and smell. Although colour is something you can't describe without seeing them, some do tell stories of different swirls of lights in their dreams, which others can only really be describe as different colours of lights because they can easily describe the other aspects, the shapes for example. The key word is 'different,' if they can describe the shapes and sensations they can see in their dreams, any other information like "I saw this shape which was different to this shape, but it looked the same" can only be understood as a possible colour change.

One favourable task for these play groups is holding and feeling shapes and then removing these shapes and seeing if they can remake them by telling the leader what they felt and remaking them using their hands as guidance. A cube can be drawn up using hands while they are asked for feedback on what shape they are doing, what it is made up of etc. So a cube would be described as an item with 6 sides.

It's similar to walking around in the dark in your house, but it's easier for us to understand what a shape is before a blind person because we've seen it with our eyes before hand and may have remembered the placement of items through habit. Like if we were walking around a living room, we could feel around and pick up information through touch, like a TV, fireplace or sofa and dodge these items as we walk around. Not to say it's difficult for a blind person, they could be taught what these items are in their own house and become familiar with these items and draw up their own conclusions in another place.

Colour can never really be described, other than for generic items or items familiar to them, like their own skin colour, eyes, room etc. Granted they would never of seen these, they can only ever trust their carers, guardians and parents that this information is accurate and picture in their mind the chair and the bed they sleep on, unless they feel around their room understnading information about it.

Saying they can't understand shapes when they haven't seen them kinda destroys the reason they use brail, they can feel the writing and make words with them and remember them, which is why objects they are accustom to can be remembered

Great, not another are blood vessels blue or red?

[GommeInc]

Great, not another are blood vessels blue or red?

*shudders at the thought of that argument again*