Monarchy or Republic

[alexxxxx]

The general public could travel to europe regardless of the EU, what pathetic excuse for signing away sovereignty. If the general public felt this way they would support the EU, and no doubt we would of been asked if we wanted the Libson Treaty if the public were in support; why?, because they would only hold a referendum if they were sure of a victory. As for Liverpool please don't lecture me about my own city, I know what happend in Liverpool and its this; after the toxteth riots Michael Heseltine visited the city and many new modern buildings were built in that period, which saw Liverpool beginning to transform. As for recent money that has gone into the city, it has not been EU money it has come from central government. Even if it had come from the EU, we could of had even more money if the government hadn't given it to the EU in the first place, again your acting as if the EU is giving us money, it is taking our money, taxing it and giving us some of it back.

No, the top simply isn't true. You can't just 'go' and work in Russia, you can;t just 'go' and work in the USA, you can't just 'go' and work in Japan. You need Visas, permissions. You can't just 'go' and sell your products in China, you can't just 'go' and sell your products in New Zealand. There are barriers. I know alot of people who have gone to study abroad, moved abroad and work abroad - all thanks to free movement of people and goods.

Don't talk about things you don't know. Liverpool was a beneficiary of ALOT of EU funding as it was an 'Objective 1' city as it was one of the most deprived areas of europe. It's recieved hundreds of millions of pounds. There's no guarantee the government would have given you the money anyway. Maybe they would spend it in the south, where all the money is spent.

No they aren't, thanks to us not having proportional representation and the fact that the main parties want to keep the EU off the agenda because it is an embaraessment to them all.

If everyone cared so much about us not being in the EU, they'd vote UKIP in general elections. End of story. It's seen as something to complain about. Which is what this country is good at, all talk and no action.

Then basically the economic side of the EU is also worthless, in a global world like now none of this will matter anymore, and that is precisely why the EU is changing from an economic union to a political union. It has absolutly no value or place in our country, it costs us billions, takes away our right to govern ourselves and is a biased organisation which refuses to accept conflicting opinions with its own, and will not take no for an answer.

You keep talking about this 'global world' but can you please explain to me what you mean by this and how this affects trade. It costs us a couple of billion a year, a number that dwarfs the amount spent on bailouts of banks and the benefits that UK businesses gain. You know when you look on the road and you see a lorry registered from spain, the netherlands, belgium, germany etc, think about why it's here. It's because the EU/EEA free trade treaties allowed it. When you see them at dover, full to the brim with UK goods/food, think about why these goods are being purchased abroad, because of these treaties again. If the world is so 'globalised' as you say it is, why are we shelling out so much for our food? It's because we enforce a minimum price on our food, a protectionist thing to do. It's because we can't compete on price with people growing food in africa or in asia. So we enforce a minimum price. The world isn't a free-market or as much as a free market as you think it is.

They have been removed from the treaty, but will no doubt be side-slipped in the new EU once the Lisbon Treaty is in place. The original treaty showed us their eventual aim, so since it got rejected they had no choice but to water it down, their motive for it is still there and they will not rest until they achieve their eventual aim.

So it hasn't happened. And won't happen in the forceable future. It faced opposition. It failed. It will fail again.

No it is true, I have even proven it with a french officals' opinion on the Thatcher government which clearly indictated their delight in our voted in Prime Minister toppling from power as a result of the EU. How can you say areas such as Sheffield and so on have suffered?, the country has got richer and city centres in places like Sheffield have been transformed from post-war industrial wrecks to growing financial cities. Would you rather the poor be poorer?

No, I'd prefer the poor have jobs and that the governments who cut off the coal mines and industries kept their promises about new jobs to those areas.

You will never ever have both rich and poor on the same level and nor is that right, but you can have both groups better off as is what happend thanks to the Thatcher government. The thing socialism cannot grasp is that wealth creates investment which in turn creates jobs. Foreign ownership is not ideal, but i'm afraid paying higher taxes for services a lot of our parents do not use is not fair and is not right either, if a small section of the public use the trains, why should the all of the public have to pay for them services even when they are not using them? - they shouldn't, it is that simple. When you have services that are run by the government not only do they require the same amount to run, they do not have the motivation or will to make a profit, because they will always have public money to support them so it wouldn't matter at all if they didn't make a profit. Then you have the unions who constantly strike and kept on striking in order to influence the government even though most of the workers didn't want to strike, and of course the Labour government of the day eventually gave in because it had to, whereas a private company can only put wages up so much. The trouble in the 1980's was the unions and militants who could not stand losing their grip on power and were fully fledged militant communists/socialists who hated the thought of people working for themselves. Arthur Scargill, what a disgrace and complete idiot, but a still remembered as a beacon to socialists.

I think you'll find alot of people use the train, alot of people use buses, alot of people use electricity, alot of people use the internet and alot of people talk on their telephones. Why is it that these have to be sold off cheaply so that we get screwed over. I'm very left wing, I just think everyone should have the same opportunities and there is no barriers for anyone whatsoever. If someone wants to go to university, the idea of money shouldn't have to put them off. If someone wants to work further away and can't afford a car, why should they have to pay an extortionate amount of money to the faceless train companies. The companies can work in cartels and bribe regulators, but the government is answerable to us. We can vote them out, we can change it. But for the trains, if i want to go to london to see something, if i want to make a full day of it, leaving early, it's going to cost me a hell of alot of money. And there will still be plenty of spaces on that train. If i want to go to birmingham a journey that would only take, at maximum, an hour in the car, I haev to use the train which would take me the best part of 2 hours because there has been little investment. Where has the investment been recently? Oh, the south east. Like normal.

I'm sorry but the French voted in Nicholas Sarkozy, a conservative over a socialist. Therefore that argument is now defunct, social politics in a country change all the time regardless, economic politics don't and France has been a predominently capitalist economy for a long time. The French take pride in independance and working for your own means, thats precisely why they send the immigrants over here because they will not dare stand for sloppy immigration policies like we sadly do from our pathetic government.

Are you on about illegal immigrants? or immigrants. When I last checked, there were alot of immigrants in france, around 10% of the population, more than here, you don't even check your facts. I'm sure the pakistanis who can't speak french, but immigrate here to fill our doctor posts don't knock on their door to let them in first. The reasons for our docotr shortage is because of the expense of university. Even the Scots have got this right by demolishing fees.

The UN in a democracy, and if thats not a democracy then i'm afraid the EU is undescribable. No EU supporter can claim the UN is not a democratic body when the EU denies its people the right to vote on whether it should even exist.

I don't think we got a vote on the UN if it exists. And I don't think we even got a vote who sits in the 'parliament' there so to speak either. It's probably less democratic than the EU.

The soldiers would like a united europe, but not a nation of europe, which is what Sir Winston Churchill also wanted. I'm afraid we can be a united europe without signing away our sovereignty and pouring money into the EU, just like we are allies with the United States. I don't see the United States demand we hand over sovereignty and money to them to be their ally. Therefore that argument is also defunct, you do not have to be in a union to have allies/security; but of course you will not agree as that is another excuse for us to surrender power by using the means to scare the public.

The USA tell us what to do and we follow. We have a one-sided treaty with them concerning criminals. We have to send them the people who are wanted in the USA, but they don't have to send ours. Do you want more things like this? They have air bases in our country, but i'm pretty damn sure we wouldn't be allowed one in their country. There are no foreign air bases in the USA. And also, noone is going to attack us. Why do you keep on bringing up this whole 'ally' thing like we're sstill part of the triple-entente fighting in the war or some rubbish. All we do is attack a few guys in middle east to boost the USAs influence. I don't see Iceland having an army and they've not been attacked/invaded yet.

I doubt we will recieve a referendum (not if Labour can help it), and if we do, it will lose; which is excellent. The first step must be to stop the EU in its tracks, the second must be to eradicate it.

[/QUOTE]
You want to destroy the EU before or after we've left. Sounds like warmongering.

*yawn* going to bed.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No, the top simply isn't true. You can't just 'go' and work in Russia, you can;t just 'go' and work in the USA, you can't just 'go' and work in Japan. You need Visas, permissions. You can't just 'go' and sell your products in China, you can't just 'go' and sell your products in New Zealand. There are barriers. I know alot of people who have gone to study abroad, moved abroad and work abroad - all thanks to free movement of people and goods.

Don't talk about things you don't know. Liverpool was a beneficiary of ALOT of EU funding as it was an 'Objective 1' city as it was one of the most deprived areas of europe. It's recieved hundreds of millions of pounds. There's no guarantee the government would have given you the money anyway. Maybe they would spend it in the south, where all the money is spent.


If everyone cared so much about us not being in the EU, they'd vote UKIP in general elections. End of story. It's seen as something to complain about. Which is what this country is good at, all talk and no action.


You keep talking about this 'global world' but can you please explain to me what you mean by this and how this affects trade. It costs us a couple of billion a year, a number that dwarfs the amount spent on bailouts of banks and the benefits that UK businesses gain. You know when you look on the road and you see a lorry registered from spain, the netherlands, belgium, germany etc, think about why it's here. It's because the EU/EEA free trade treaties allowed it. When you see them at dover, full to the brim with UK goods/food, think about why these goods are being purchased abroad, because of these treaties again. If the world is so 'globalised' as you say it is, why are we shelling out so much for our food? It's because we enforce a minimum price on our food, a protectionist thing to do. It's because we can't compete on price with people growing food in africa or in asia. So we enforce a minimum price. The world isn't a free-market or as much as a free market as you think it is.


So it hasn't happened. And won't happen in the forceable future. It faced opposition. It failed. It will fail again.


No, I'd prefer the poor have jobs and that the governments who cut off the coal mines and industries kept their promises about new jobs to those areas.


I think you'll find alot of people use the train, alot of people use buses, alot of people use electricity, alot of people use the internet and alot of people talk on their telephones. Why is it that these have to be sold off cheaply so that we get screwed over. I'm very left wing, I just think everyone should have the same opportunities and there is no barriers for anyone whatsoever. If someone wants to go to university, the idea of money shouldn't have to put them off. If someone wants to work further away and can't afford a car, why should they have to pay an extortionate amount of money to the faceless train companies. The companies can work in cartels and bribe regulators, but the government is answerable to us. We can vote them out, we can change it. But for the trains, if i want to go to london to see something, if i want to make a full day of it, leaving early, it's going to cost me a hell of alot of money. And there will still be plenty of spaces on that train. If i want to go to birmingham a journey that would only take, at maximum, an hour in the car, I haev to use the train which would take me the best part of 2 hours because there has been little investment. Where has the investment been recently? Oh, the south east. Like normal.


Are you on about illegal immigrants? or immigrants. When I last checked, there were alot of immigrants in france, around 10% of the population, more than here, you don't even check your facts. I'm sure the pakistanis who can't speak french, but immigrate here to fill our doctor posts don't knock on their door to let them in first. The reasons for our docotr shortage is because of the expense of university. Even the Scots have got this right by demolishing fees.


I don't think we got a vote on the UN if it exists. And I don't think we even got a vote who sits in the 'parliament' there so to speak either. It's probably less democratic than the EU.


The USA tell us what to do and we follow. We have a one-sided treaty with them concerning criminals. We have to send them the people who are wanted in the USA, but they don't have to send ours. Do you want more things like this? They have air bases in our country, but i'm pretty damn sure we wouldn't be allowed one in their country. There are no foreign air bases in the USA. And also, noone is going to attack us. Why do you keep on bringing up this whole 'ally' thing like we're sstill part of the triple-entente fighting in the war or some rubbish. All we do is attack a few guys in middle east to boost the USAs influence. I don't see Iceland having an army and they've not been attacked/invaded yet.

You want to destroy the EU before or after we've left. Sounds like warmongering.

*yawn* going to bed.[/QUOTE]


Barriers are good, and why? - because they stop terrorists and people we do not want coming into this country, its called security something that has disappeared in this country. I don't know about my own city?, you have dismissed my argument about Michael Heseltine (and you can see from the many 1980's buildings in Liverpool how much money was pumped into the city), you have also ignored my argument about how the money the EU 'gives' us is ours in the first place, except when we have it returned we have less given back. It is utter madness and if you want to bleat on about how generous they have been then be my guest, the fact remains that is our money they are giving back to us; with a signifigant portion missing.

This country will start turning to those parties believe you me, the problem is that with the current system we have in place it is very unfair on smaller parties. This country is different and independant, we do things our way and europe do it their way - another reason why we dont belong together.

Hang on, how do Switzerland, Ukraine, Norway and others cope without this wonderful EU? - well firstly they are involved particially in the treaties and have chosen not to have their sovereignty stamped upon. Many countries in the world have excellent trade and dont have to pay higher prices for their food like we have to, and guess what?; they aren't part of the EU. The EU has no excuse to be expanding into any other areas than trade.

It is not the governments job to set up and create worthless jobs which will cost the country money and make the whole of the country suffer. Your very unfair, i'm afraid the majority of this country who pay taxes do not want to go travelling to London/hardly use these services, so i'll ak again, why should my mum and dad pay tax for a service which they personally do not use but other people do. You pay for yourself, its called independance and its how you get on in the world rather than expecting the state to do everything. You can vote a government in and out if your industry is nationalised, it still doesn't stop high taxes and a service which is uneconomical.

Illegal immigration of course, and we only have to look at the French riots which occured not long ago which shows signs of racial problems already arising. I do not want the same in the United Kingdom and neither does anyone else.

Actually, I think your missing the crucial difference between the UN and the EU. Where the UN was generally agreed to be set up to avoid future world wars and use diplomatic means, it also doesnt command us to hand over sovereignty and has no desire of becoming a fully-fledged nation.

It was you who brought up a united europe to stop occurances like world war two happening again. The United States co-operates with us a lot and is the most powerful military force in NATO, therefore I do not mind at all them having a military base in this country. Iceland is a NATO country anyway so it is guranteed security by all of NATO in return for co-operation and bases. I would salute the US flag anyday over the EU flag. I don't agree with how politics between the United Kingdom and United States have gone over the past 15 or so years, but that can be changed. I would never ever support any EU army in any war and I refuse to recognize any EU army, or nation. It breaches my rights and the 'constitutional' values of the United Kingdom as a sovereign state.

Too right I want the EU to fail/collapse as soon as possible, as do the people of europe. Central command economys and multi-national unions do not work. I'd turn the war scare claim around, it is not me who warns we need a united europe to avert an event like world war two - it is the EU using false and ludicrous claims like that to scare people into the union.

[Janeisntpleased]

there is actually no point to the current monarchy, it's all a formality.
the queen has no real powers because if she refused to pass a law or whatever it would just cause outrage which would put her position in jeopardy and ultimately lead to us getting rid of her anyway.

[Blinger1]

I don't really mind if we are in a monarchy or not. I just want those two young kids (prince will and harry?) to become kings, now!!

Having a king that goes out and enjoys life would be sweet, or a king that goes to war.. WOO!!

Although as soon as king status is given to them, thats the end of their party days etc..

[Caution]

I don't really mind if we are in a monarchy or not. I just want those two young kids (prince will and harry?) to become kings, now!!

Having a king that goes out and enjoys life would be sweet, or a king that goes to war.. WOO!!

Although as soon as king status is given to them, thats the end of their party days etc..

yeah and dressing up as nazi's and such.:rolleyes:

[alexxxxx]

Barriers are good, and why? - because they stop terrorists and people we do not want coming into this country, its called security something that has disappeared in this country. I don't know about my own city?, you have dismissed my argument about Michael Heseltine (and you can see from the many 1980's buildings in Liverpool how much money was pumped into the city), you have also ignored my argument about how the money the EU 'gives' us is ours in the first place, except when we have it returned we have less given back. It is utter madness and if you want to bleat on about how generous they have been then be my guest, the fact remains that is our money they are giving back to us; with a signifigant portion missing.

Barriers to trade. Not barriers to people. Terrorism is such a stupid argument. The threat of terrorism is much largley reported and is an excuse for the governement to remove our civil liberties, something the EC is actually investigating. They've ruled our massive databases are illegal and the terrorism acts are being misused.

This country will start turning to those parties believe you me, the problem is that with the current system we have in place it is very unfair on smaller parties. This country is different and independant, we do things our way and europe do it their way - another reason why we dont belong together.

OK. But they haven't got there yet.

Hang on, how do Switzerland, Ukraine, Norway and others cope without this wonderful EU? - well firstly they are involved particially in the treaties and have chosen not to have their sovereignty stamped upon. Many countries in the world have excellent trade and dont have to pay higher prices for their food like we have to, and guess what?; they aren't part of the EU. The EU has no excuse to be expanding into any other areas than trade.

Our country gets ripped off, all the time, I don't understand why I'll admit, but other EU countries enjoy cheaper prices on alot of goods. We're just known as 'treasure island' by multinational firms. Switzerland are actually quite integrated. They are part of the Schengen area which means there aren't even passport checks on borders. Norway is a part of the EEA, which means they take the free trade and movement of people, but lose other benefits.

It is not the governments job to set up and create worthless jobs which will cost the country money and make the whole of the country suffer. Your very unfair, i'm afraid the majority of this country who pay taxes do not want to go travelling to London/hardly use these services, so i'll ak again, why should my mum and dad pay tax for a service which they personally do not use but other people do. You pay for yourself, its called independance and its how you get on in the world rather than expecting the state to do everything. You can vote a government in and out if your industry is nationalised, it still doesn't stop high taxes and a service which is uneconomical.

Privatisation doesn't work. What happens is that a goverment should, ideally, run it at break even, either investing profits used back into in the system or used to lower prices, lower prices means people can spend more money on other products, creating jobs and economic growth. Government contracts can be given to private firms, which creates jobs etc, economic growth etc, etc. Whilst in the other way, your way, we pay higher electricity costs to EDF so that the profits can subsidise the french. Or we pay extortiante prices on water that loses millions of litres a day in the system, due to poor maintenence and the profits are just taken abroad. Do you use electricity or do you have a wind-up computer?

Illegal immigration of course, and we only have to look at the French riots which occured not long ago which shows signs of racial problems already arising. I do not want the same in the United Kingdom and neither does anyone else.

We already had our riots in leeds and bradford. But apart from the BNP, most people are generally fairly tolerant of immigrants. The illegal immigrants come here because often they can speak a degree of english (the french-africans I imagine stay in france) and because of our history and our image of being very capitalist they feel that our country can offer them the chance of coming out of poverty.

Actually, I think your missing the crucial difference between the UN and the EU. Where the UN was generally agreed to be set up to avoid future world wars and use diplomatic means, it also doesnt command us to hand over sovereignty and has no desire of becoming a fully-fledged nation.

Yeah, that's correct, however, your arguments about saying 'we never voted to be in the EU' is the same as the UN and how it's also democratic. It's no more democratic, we just hold more power. The UN is unpopular in the USA because they feel they are bigger than it.

It was you who brought up a united europe to stop occurances like world war two happening again. The United States co-operates with us a lot and is the most powerful military force in NATO, therefore I do not mind at all them having a military base in this country. Iceland is a NATO country anyway so it is guranteed security by all of NATO in return for co-operation and bases. I would salute the US flag anyday over the EU flag. I don't agree with how politics between the United Kingdom and United States have gone over the past 15 or so years, but that can be changed. I would never ever support any EU army in any war and I refuse to recognize any EU army, or nation. It breaches my rights and the 'constitutional' values of the United Kingdom as a sovereign state.

That's pathetic that you'd 'salute the flag.' The USA's cooperation is just them telling us what to do. We are becoming unpopular because of our strong ties with the USA. The USA only care about themselves and is, in my eyes, corrupt. The USA want the EU to send all data on people visiting the US before they get there, but they won't do it the other way round. They are arrogant and have us round their little finger.

Too right I want the EU to fail/collapse as soon as possible, as do the people of europe. Central command economys and multi-national unions do not work. I'd turn the war scare claim around, it is not me who warns we need a united europe to avert an event like world war two - it is the EU using false and ludicrous claims like that to scare people into the union.

The EU isn't as unpopular on the mainland than here. When/If we're not in it, it's not our business if it fails or not.

[Blinger1]

yeah and dressing up as nazi's and such.:rolleyes:

I like it. He is living life, having fun.

Would you rather the current queen who is too old to tell the difference between a spoon and fork? Or prince Charles who is so ugly and annoying that he makes Lindsay Lohan look good.

[Caution]

I like it. He is living life, having fun.

Would you rather the current queen who is too old to tell the difference between a spoon and fork? Or prince Charles who is so ugly and annoying that he makes Lindsay Lohan look good.

what the hell? he's living life and having fun by dressing in the uniform of people who killed millions of people, yeah it sounds fun.:S

[-:Undertaker:-]

Barriers to trade. Not barriers to people. Terrorism is such a stupid argument. The threat of terrorism is much largley reported and is an excuse for the governement to remove our civil liberties, something the EC is actually investigating. They've ruled our massive databases are illegal and the terrorism acts are being misused.

OK. But they haven't got there yet.


Our country gets ripped off, all the time, I don't understand why I'll admit, but other EU countries enjoy cheaper prices on alot of goods. We're just known as 'treasure island' by multinational firms. Switzerland are actually quite integrated. They are part of the Schengen area which means there aren't even passport checks on borders. Norway is a part of the EEA, which means they take the free trade and movement of people, but lose other benefits.


Privatisation doesn't work. What happens is that a goverment should, ideally, run it at break even, either investing profits used back into in the system or used to lower prices, lower prices means people can spend more money on other products, creating jobs and economic growth. Government contracts can be given to private firms, which creates jobs etc, economic growth etc, etc. Whilst in the other way, your way, we pay higher electricity costs to EDF so that the profits can subsidise the french. Or we pay extortiante prices on water that loses millions of litres a day in the system, due to poor maintenence and the profits are just taken abroad. Do you use electricity or do you have a wind-up computer?


We already had our riots in leeds and bradford. But apart from the BNP, most people are generally fairly tolerant of immigrants. The illegal immigrants come here because often they can speak a degree of english (the french-africans I imagine stay in france) and because of our history and our image of being very capitalist they feel that our country can offer them the chance of coming out of poverty.


Yeah, that's correct, however, your arguments about saying 'we never voted to be in the EU' is the same as the UN and how it's also democratic. It's no more democratic, we just hold more power. The UN is unpopular in the USA because they feel they are bigger than it.


That's pathetic that you'd 'salute the flag.' The USA's cooperation is just them telling us what to do. We are becoming unpopular because of our strong ties with the USA. The USA only care about themselves and is, in my eyes, corrupt. The USA want the EU to send all data on people visiting the US before they get there, but they won't do it the other way round. They are arrogant and have us round their little finger.


The EU isn't as unpopular on the mainland than here. When/If we're not in it, it's not our business if it fails or not.

If your talking about barriers to trade then why did you mention the movement of people, such as moving to other areas in europe?, you have just stabbed your own argument there. Trade can move around regardless of the EU, otherwise trade wouldn't exist. We have been trading as a nation for hundreds of years, so how come now we have to surrender sovereignty to continue what we have been doing for the past hundreds of years?

Wrong, Norway and non-EU countries are enjoying the benefits of EU trade but haven't had to surrender their sovereignty over for it. It jsut proves the EU does want to become a superpower, a nation. Its people do not.

Privatisation does work, you still haven't told me why my parents should pay for services they dont use. If you look at it actually, it makes perfect sense and destroys any argument socialism has. When you have lower taxes due to companies not being subsidised by tax, it means people have more money to spend, which means they can shop more, which in turn creates more jobs, you can afford to go on holiday, which in turn generates money for the airport, for the airlines, for the holiday companies and for local business in the country you are visiting, this in turn creates more jobs and more wealth. It is so simple and it is proven to work, just look at our economic growth from the 1980's to now, our economy recovered from terrible post-war decline in which tosspots like Arthur Scargill took advantage of.

No; the illegal immigrants come here because we give them more than any other country and they also have more of a chance of staying here if they get in. I'm sorry but why should taxpayers fund these people to live here when they often cause crime.

The difference, again, between the UN and EU is that the UN doesn't demand the handing over of sovereignty and isn't biased. The UN also serves a purpose of solving world affairs whereas the EU's only purpose is to build itself up as one nation.

The USA stand up for themselves, something this country needs to learn. The United States will always be our ally. Too right i'd salute the US flag than the EU one, I view the EU as nothing more than wanting to become a central command economy just like the Soviet Union. The USA is only unpopular due to the Bush Administration, it has in the past done the wrong things but in this world, I would rather the USA be the world power than the PROC and I would rather the EU not exist at all, just like most other people around europe.

It is our business if it fails or not, it is grabbing more and more of our sovereignty, our country is not theirs to govern and the sooner national governments around europe realise this and stop sleep walking into this undemocratic 'union' the better.

You may support it, but surely you must respect that people do not want the EU, just accept it and move on from the EU dream you and the eurocrats are living.

[alexxxxx]

If your talking about barriers to trade then why did you mention the movement of people, such as moving to other areas in europe?, you have just stabbed your own argument there. Trade can move around regardless of the EU, otherwise trade wouldn't exist. We have been trading as a nation for hundreds of years, so how come now we have to surrender sovereignty to continue what we have been doing for the past hundreds of years?

I think you misunderstood what I said. The EU ensures free trade. Asia are currently trying to setup a common maket too. The NAFTA ensures free trade too between the USA and Canada. The EEA is our largest trading partner, leaving this union doesn't guarabtee our competition in it.

Wrong, Norway and non-EU countries are enjoying the benefits of EU trade but haven't had to surrender their sovereignty over for it. It jsut proves the EU does want to become a superpower, a nation. Its people do not.

Yeah, it's called the EEA. EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA. :eusa_wall The people I have met when doing my european exchanges with people in Italy, France, Germany and another time in France, none of them had unfavourable views of the EU.

Privatisation does work, you still haven't told me why my parents should pay for services they dont use. If you look at it actually, it makes perfect sense and destroys any argument socialism has. When you have lower taxes due to companies not being subsidised by tax, it means people have more money to spend, which means they can shop more, which in turn creates more jobs, you can afford to go on holiday, which in turn generates money for the airport, for the airlines, for the holiday companies and for local business in the country you are visiting, this in turn creates more jobs and more wealth. It is so simple and it is proven to work, just look at our economic growth from the 1980's to now, our economy recovered from terrible post-war decline in which tosspots like Arthur Scargill took advantage of.

The rail companies still take subsidies from the government and still charge us stupid amounts of money. We pay twice. Tax bill goes up, the money goes abroad, less money is spent in UK shops, people lose jobs and downward spiral entails. All the companies are government sponsered monopolies, which then work in cartels against us and have no wish in reinvestment into the infastructure. All the torys did in the 80s was make a few million unemployed, sell off the country's silver, encourage people to buy houses that they then couldn't subsequently afford when the interest rates went up when a failed attempt at keeping inflation low happened. Only since the recession in 1991 (under a conservative government) as the economy grown again and now we have our slump. Your parents should continue to pay for subsidies because it is vital for movement of people around the country. In my eyes it doesn't matter if they use it or not, because they have the option of using it.

No; the illegal immigrants come here because we give them more than any other country and they also have more of a chance of staying here if they get in. I'm sorry but why should taxpayers fund these people to live here when they often cause crime.

Illegal immigrants get nothing. They aren't registered, they're under the radar. It's your daily mail goggles which are on again. Illegal Immigrants = Rapists/Murderes again. Most illegal immigrants keep their head down and work for little or no money and to escape poverty. I don't want illegal immigrants here as much as you do, but you see the world in such a one-dimensional way.

The difference, again, between the UN and EU is that the UN doesn't demand the handing over of sovereignty and isn't biased. The UN also serves a purpose of solving world affairs whereas the EU's only purpose is to build itself up as one nation.

The UN is completely different to the EU. The UN is a council to discuss global matters. It aids governments rather than aiding people in general (apart from peacekeeping).

The USA stand up for themselves, something this country needs to learn. The United States will always be our ally. Too right i'd salute the US flag than the EU one, I view the EU as nothing more than wanting to become a central command economy just like the Soviet Union. The USA is only unpopular due to the Bush Administration, it has in the past done the wrong things but in this world, I would rather the USA be the world power than the PROC and I would rather the EU not exist at all, just like most other people around europe.

The USA is so big and dominant, that's why it can. The USA isn't just unpopular because of the BA, but also because of it's stupid drug wars in the 70s/80s where they placed puppet governments in the Central and Southern Americas, it's arrogance and dominance, it's public defiance of the UN. And our weak leaders get duped into letting us get stringed along so it looks like the USA has global support for its own interests abroad.

It is our business if it fails or not, it is grabbing more and more of our sovereignty, our country is not theirs to govern and the sooner national governments around europe realise this and stop sleep walking into this undemocratic 'union' the better.

You may support it, but surely you must respect that people do not want the EU, just accept it and move on from the EU dream you and the eurocrats are living.

As the UKIP says, a vote for another party is a vote for the EU. I'm still not convinced it's cared enough yet, apart from the moaning, daily mail reading middle englanders.

You should respect people's negative views of the conservative party and thatcher. Hated by millions. I can understand why people don't want to be in the EU. I just disagree for reasons aforementioned. I think people are stupid if they want to leave the EEA however.