someone explain this simply?
the links broken and i cba to look through this thread trying to make sense of it
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Thread: That's enough. Down with Opera!
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Opera got IE8 pulled from windows seven in EU, now opera want a splash screen to show different browsers in windows. Bascically Opera is whining, Microsoft graciously removed IE8 from Windows seven, and Opera threw it back in their faces. We're all opting in to spread thw word to remove all Opera products and all such things...
Chippiewill.
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Why the hell are people boycotting Opera when everything lies with the EU/EC?! Opera's motive for making a complaint is irrelevant. If the EU/EC takes the issue in hand, it must be because there is a legitimate issue with Microsoft, in the eyes of EU/EC (NOT NECESSARILY OPERA!).
Originally Posted by Jordy
No. The reason Apple are not being moaned at is because they don't have a dominant share of the OS market. They have ~10% share. Microsoft has the vast majority; consequently they are subject to specific anti-trust law applicable only to dominant parties. Originally Posted by 00chips
As already stated, mozilla and Chrome are back benchers... they want it to happen so that they can get a leg in however how would you like it if some random part had to be in your computer so it's fair on the person who made it. It makes no sense... All Opera are doing is whining over the falling market-share, nearly all their current users are foreign as well meaning less money from however they get money.(From a quick twitter search of Opera, in which I found only one tweet in english).
Also the only reason why Opera isn't moaning At Apple for the only browser of a Mac basically being Safari is because Opera don't make a browser for Mac...
Hmmm....
Edit: Opera were simply giving an opinion on a journalistic question. They are not demanding that Microsoft include a number of browsers... but it is their opinion that it would be useful. But it means nothing unless the EU/EC decide for themselves that it is the necessary course of action. Microsoft didn't do it graciously, you fool. They did it to comply with the EU/EC. It is now for the EU/EC to decide whether this action is sufficient. Don't hate on a company for having an opinion.
For the record, I don't use Opera. I'm just overwhelmed by the ridiculous responses I've seen here and on that forum with (not surprisingly) plenty of Americans.Last edited by Barmi; 15-06-2009 at 04:40 PM.
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gotcha. dont have opera products anyway so im good
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Because the EU is getting ALL of it's advice from Opera who want IE to go because they lost out to it... Originally Posted by Barmi
Even 5% is a massive market share, it's already known that Apple is on the up so people may want in on the action.No. The reason Apple are not being moaned at is because they don't have a dominant share of the OS market. They have ~10% share. Microsoft has the vast majority; consequently they are subject to specific anti-trust law applicable only to dominant parties.
No, MS did it Graciously, nothing had been demanded by the EU. Also it is quite right for MS to recommend IE as most security software (In businesses, e.g. site blocking) is incompatible with other browsers...Edit: Opera were simply giving an opinion on a journalistic question. They are not demanding that Microsoft include a number of browsers... but it is their opinion that it would be useful. But it means nothing unless the EU/EC decide for themselves that it is the necessary course of action. Microsoft didn't do it graciously, you fool. They did it to comply with the EU/EC. It is now for the EU/EC to decide whether this action is sufficient.
Also the EU is looking for a solution, Opera knows that this is the ideal solution and will most likely put it forward however it is very unfair that MS who make the bloody OS cannot put their own Browser on their own OS. There's a whole load of crap of Windows that I hate however I don't moan about it. Since when did Adobe moan at MS for Paint, or Steam for 'The Purple Place' and Apple for 'Windows Media Player'. I can't wait for us to leave the EU, it's going to happen at this rate... They even fined the UK government for not giving enough consumer support. As if fining is going to help get more money to consumers.... The EU is a whole load of bonkers, crazed up, clueless, idiotic monkey like, insane, ******ed, self interested, plonkers....
(Yes I did just compare the EU with hitler)
Now stop claiming that the EUs thoughts matter one ounce and remove opera!Last edited by Chippiewill; 15-06-2009 at 05:02 PM.
Chippiewill.
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Originally Posted by Robbie!
I'm glad someone seems to have an alternative opinion because as an Opera user I was worried about sounding fanboyish defending them Originally Posted by Barmi
I haven't read the article Jewish Bear linked to because the site seems to be down atm, if someone that can get to it or has it can post it on here I'd be rather grateful. I have, however, been following the story on cnet on its podcasts and I have to say that although opera were the company that spoke out and brought the lawsuit against microsoft, this little battle has been going on between software makers since forever.
Let me link you to a product page for "Windows XP N" http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...NEuropePR.mspx
This is a product that came into existance because of another EU (who else would it be?) ruling that said Microsoft weren't allowed to ship its operating system with Windows Media Player because of court action brought about by the makers of media player software under the same anti trust laws being used in the ruling in this case.
What it seems like to me is Microsoft has had enough of people trying on this anti trust stuff and has refused to play nice. Instead of offering another OS like XP N (which wouldn't really be in their favour since hardly any versions of XP N were actually sold), they've just decided to announce they'll ship 7 without IE altogether. Its what the EU want and Microsoft know full well people will work out that they won't be able to get a browser without IE.
That's the stage we're at now. I don't believe Microsoft will follow through with this plan, it seems to me that they're calling the EUs bluff. Unless the EU are supremely stupid they'll see how much of a problem this is and reverse it and it'll all be forgotten soon enough. Both Microsoft and the EU are intelligent organisations (contrary to what most armchair experts think) and I believe they're just testing the waters, they'll end up meeting in the middle somewhere, probably by making the user choose a browser during installation or something (with an unskippable screen so the user can't forget).
So what does this have to do with opera? Not a whole lot. Opera started the anti trust lawsuit because they felt Microsoft shouldn't force the user to use IE to begin with (which we've established they have to, hence the outcry), but as the ars technica article points out, all the other browser makers had the same thing in mind and spoke out in support of opera. Furthermore the EU, arguably rightly or wrongly, thought they had a strong enough case for them to investigate AND take action on, and no matter how mad the decision seems the fact stands that the browser makers have managed to convince a panel of people that action needs to be taken, so there is obviously some sort of law being broken that none of us know about, unless there's a lawyer among us.
I realise I'm just regurgitating the article Barmi posted (+rep btw) but it sums it up pretty nicely. For those that missed the link, http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/new...-wait-what.ars
That last sentence is quite worrying. Just because there's a ruling against what you believe is right doesn't mean the people who made the ruling don't deserve an opinion. And a rather informed one at that. Originally Posted by 00chips
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***, Opera started the anti-trust inquest because of their falling market share, that is the only reason. It wasn't the consumers interests in mind, just Opera's.
Also if there is no browser installed then apparently standard old explorer can act as a web browser...Last edited by Chippiewill; 15-06-2009 at 05:31 PM.
Chippiewill.
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I'm using Opera right now when writing this post now i've heard all your stuff what's the best browser to use now? I'm thinking of getting Google Chrome but whats yours
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Professor-Alex, it's refreshing to read some sense for a change! :eusa_clap
Seriously, quit whatever vendetta you're on. Opera's motive for bringing a complaint is irrelevant. If the EU/EC believe Microsoft's behaviour is actionable (as per Opera's complaint), that is a Microsoft and EU/EC issue. Opera can do nothing but express their opinion. Originally Posted by 00chips
Edit: Microsoft are trying to get away with the bare minimum by not including it by default. Instead, they are giving copies to the OEMs who (with a virtual certainty) will install it or provide it for users. Opera (and other parties) are simply suggesting that there is no reason to remove IE from Windows... but offer other options in addition. This is simply an opinion and has no binding force, so why moan about it? We have to wait and see what the EU/EC think about Microsoft's action first.Last edited by Barmi; 15-06-2009 at 05:53 PM.
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Firefox Originally Posted by TheMagicTramp
Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience.
And 15 mins later... Originally Posted by Recursion
Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5850 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card £195.73 1 £195.73
*ordered.
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