Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union?

[alexxxxx]

We should sponser our own cultural insitutions rather than having a group of unelected european deciding it for us, we have little in common with Europe, Europe doesn't really like us and if we carry on this way then we will be saying goodbye to our military sovereignty. I may not agree with some wars we have been in, but I know if we carry on towards a european federal superstate then the British military will cease to have any form of independance. Europe is even more left than we are; its not accepted and we didn't wage a Cold War for 50 odd years to in the end be goverend by left wing europeans on the mainland.

Like it or not, we are europeans, just like canadians are north americans. Our history, present and future will lie in europe, whether in the EU or not, unless we for some reason float over to canada. We have as much in common with the french as the french have in common with the germans and the italians have with the polish. We have alot in common with the other member states to do with social attitudes, religion, sport, art and music. I don't want our culture and lifestyle being watered down by american-style consumerism and I want to see local music, art, cultures, buildings and traditions being protected, I couldn't care less who did it. We all have a responsibility to look after our heritage.

On the Soviet Union; well you cannot have it both ways. Either accept that the United Kingdom could trade perfectly fine with the EU without being a member of the EU, or accept that the EU has a closed economy - which one is it.

It has neither. A half open door to those who aren't in it. They don't run communist markets.

They are all criminals, don't fool yourself over them. In parts of Liverpool where they moved in on fields, they robbed and the shops had to hire security just because of them. They make peoples lives a misery. It is not fair that in the name of some EU law that these scum are allowed to move in anywhere under the banner of human rights.

I'm sure some don't commit some crimes... but it is true that trouble seems to follow them about, around here some moved in and an old lady across the street got her purse pickpocketed from a CHARITY shop. We are within our rights to reject criminals from residing in the UK who are from the mainland. I personally believe that we need to get tough on these type of people who temporarily make life hellish for a limited amount of time and then move on.

The House of Lords needs reform yes. The UK and French governments were elected. Even if the EU was elected, would you like to tell me who elected them to even exist in the first place? - nobody did.

I seriously can't see the difference.

You say you would want the Commissioner elected by the people, yet do not want the people to have a vote on whether they want to be a part of the EU

- I thought direct democracy didn't work in your opinion?

That's not direct democracy, it's an elected representative.

Who are the public then in you're eyes? - are they the left wing, pro-EU minority who always seem to be listened to by the government?

No, I disagree that the general public are always in the right position to know what's best for the country.

The Commissioners of course, it is my opinion quite frankly and is true because of the number of pathetic laws and directives that get passed down that the parliament has no power and the Commission is the driving force, just like in the USSR when the CP ruled and the Soviet was a sham.

I must admit it is rather alot the comissioners get paid (€19,909.89/month). But there is only one comissioner per member state state.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Like it or not, we are europeans, just like canadians are north americans. Our history, present and future will lie in europe, whether in the EU or not, unless we for some reason float over to canada. We have as much in common with the french as the french have in common with the germans and the italians have with the polish. We have alot in common with the other member states to do with social attitudes, religion, sport, art and music. I don't want our culture and lifestyle being watered down by american-style consumerism and I want to see local music, art, cultures, buildings and traditions being protected, I couldn't care less who did it. We all have a responsibility to look after our heritage.

We are Europeans, but we are British first. We do not have to be governed by Europe, hence why two world wars were fought.

You say you couldn't care less who did it, lets do it ourselves then for a fraction of the cost.

It has neither. A half open door to those who aren't in it. They don't run communist markets.

That is a closed door policy then, by excluding/limiting trade to non-members that is closed door economics.

I seriously can't see the difference.
[B]
That's not direct democracy, it's an elected representative.

You can't have it both ways, either you want direct democracy and want a commissoner to be elected by the public (but that would also mean we have a referendum on EU membership) or you don't, which one is it. You cannot choose democracy when it suits you.

No, I disagree that the general public are always in the right position to know what's best for the country.

Well whether or not you like it, we live in a supposed democracy. The people should get the final say on important issues. The public know what is better for the United Kingdom rather than a load of european federalists in whitehall and Brussels.

I must admit it is rather alot the comissioners get paid (€19,909.89/month). But there is only one comissioner per member state state.

The EU audit books also haven't been checked, its more corrupt than Zimbabwe and I genuinely believe that and the unbelievable thing is that we are still the dopes who are hated by Europe anyway, who keep paying them!

[alexxxxx]

We are Europeans, but we are British first. We do not have to be governed by Europe, hence why two world wars were fought.

You say you couldn't care less who did it, lets do it ourselves then for a fraction of the cost.

We were fighting 2 world wars to prevent being taken over by totalarian nazi regime. Not the EU.

That is a closed door policy then, by excluding/limiting trade to non-members that is closed door economics.

Well then yes, they are. Just like the USA and pretty much every developed nation.

You can't have it both ways, either you want direct democracy and want a commissoner to be elected by the public (but that would also mean we have a referendum on EU membership) or you don't, which one is it. You cannot choose democracy when it suits you.

Electing a representative isn't direct democracy. Just like parliament isn't a direct democracy.

Well whether or not you like it, we live in a supposed democracy. The people should get the final say on important issues. The public know what is better for the United Kingdom rather than a load of european federalists in whitehall and Brussels.

The EU audit books also haven't been checked, its more corrupt than Zimbabwe and I genuinely believe that and the unbelievable thing is that we are still the dopes who are hated by Europe anyway, who keep paying them!

Such a common misconception that we are hated by the rest of europe. We really aren't. The EU has been audited but it's books haven't been signed off in a while. That's a worry and should be addressed.

[Ardemax]

How do I contradict myself? - and this time, don't ignore my post, don't go off on another subject, dont change the subject - show me where I contradict myself.

i've answered your ******* questions you just don't accept them and still push on with your "invincible" mode of being un-touchable.

seriously you tell me that i target you, but are you really doing the same?

[-:Undertaker:-]

We were fighting 2 world wars to prevent being taken over by totalarian nazi regime. Not the EU.

We fought two world wars to stop a totalaterian regime yes, and we fought it for the core principle of a free and democratic europe for independant nations, to stop europe becoming one nation under one flag.

Well then yes, they are. Just like the USA and pretty much every developed nation.

..so therefore you have just admitted the open-market/free-market doesn't exist and that the only aim of the EU is to become a federal superstate.

Electing a representative isn't direct democracy. Just like parliament isn't a direct democracy.

If you elect a MP that is direct democracy.
If you elect a commissioner that is direct democracy.
If you vote to be part of the EU that is direct democracy.

Such a common misconception that we are hated by the rest of europe. We really aren't. The EU has been audited but it's books haven't been signed off in a while. That's a worry and should be addressed.

The European Union does not like us, just like when Tony Blair surrendered out EU rebate for France to 'review' the CAP. Then of course as soon as he handed the money over France and the EU said no, but then again I don't blame them, they make it so obvious they don't like us and the United States but still continue to accept our money, I would aswell.

i've answered your ******* questions you just don't accept them and still push on with your "invincible" mode of being un-touchable.

seriously you tell me that i target you, but are you really doing the same?

Answer my question.

How do I contradict myself in that post?

[Ardemax]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ive answered what was your question in that post: you tell me that i target you and everything but you've also been doing the same.

would you like me to make the font bigger next time

[GommeInc]

*REMOVED*

you totally contradict yourself in that post

Edited by invincible (Forum Super Moderator): Please don't be rude to other forum members

You've kinda proven his fact to be honest, he asked your four beliefs and opinions on the EU, and in answer to that you appear to have just insulted him, rather than agreed to share your thoughts. He also mentioned you come in half way through discussions insulting him rather than finding any evidence or giving your verdict... Guess what you did in response? Insult him

You're only opinion(s) on the EU seem to be small but relevant answers, like free trading, butthat;sall you say, you never discuss why it's beneficial and whether or not paying the EU millions of pounds justifies "free" trade. So you can see why Undertaker targets you, as you seem to go quiet for a long time, and when you return you just play the "ignore" the target game, rather than give an opinion of your own, or answer the questions You seem to just rely on alexxxx, which isn't very useful, especially asyouseem to answer to Undertaker, not alexxx himself :/

[Ardemax]

thing is Gomme, although your point is valid hes been on about answering his question, so I have, yet he still go's on that I haven't...

[-:Undertaker:-]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ive answered what was your question in that post: you tell me that i target you and everything but you've also been doing the same.

would you like me to make the font bigger next time

I 'target' you because it takes numerous posts to get an answer out of you, so since you are in the mood for answering now maybe now you would like to answer to Wigs' post in this thread; http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...=612396&page=4

[alexxxxx]

..so therefore you have just admitted the open-market/free-market doesn't exist and that the only aim of the EU is to become a federal superstate.

It exists between EEA members and certain others where free trade has been agreed with.

If you elect a MP that is direct democracy.
If you elect a commissioner that is direct democracy.
If you vote to be part of the EU that is direct democracy.

No it's not, only the latter is 'direct democracy' the other 2 are represntative democracy. Which is what we have in the first case and would be preferable to have in the seond case.

The European Union does not like us, just like when Tony Blair surrendered out EU rebate for France to 'review' the CAP. Then of course as soon as he handed the money over France and the EU said no, but then again I don't blame them, they make it so obvious they don't like us and the United States but still continue to accept our money, I would aswell.

The European Union does like us, otherwise we would never have been allowed to join in the first place. Everyone is looking out for number one at the end of the day however destructive it is in the long run.