Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union?

[Pyroka]

In the UK's case, 'they' have pissed us off a lot of times witha lot of silly decisions. Nothing happened though.

Not Gordon Brown though, cuz he gets paid lotso money and hardly any blame :eusa_danc

[-:Undertaker:-]

What wars are those Undertaker?

Slovenian War 1991, Kosovo War 1998-1999, Bosnian War 1992-1995 and the Croatian War of Independence 1991-1995. (as Wig posted)

Wow i can't believe the amount of people who said yes.

Of course NO!
The UK doesn't need to leave. People are so scared that this Lisbon treaty will mean the end of our country's independence which is absolute crap.

The UK doesn't need to be in the EU to be successful but its certainly makes it easier for our country to have a say on the world platform.

The Treaty does mark the end of the United Kingdom and independance, David Cameron may not admit to it freely because his 'cast-iron' promise might of melted away, but we're not being fooled/lied to again - there will never be another treaty on the European Union, Lisbon is self-amending.

..and now the march to a superstate is nearly complete.

But being in the EU has the totally opposite effect - we do not have more of a say. We have far less of a say and I'm afraid it is a fact that our government is powerless to stop unelected brussels bureaucrats now. The EU is centralised and undemocratic.

Ardemax: Slovenian War 1991, Kosovo War 1998-1999, Bosnian War 1992-1995 and the Croatian War of Independence 1991-1995. And this is just in the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

Thank you.

if it was so un-democratic then surely it wouldn't have a european parliament

The European Parliament has no real powers and the Commission (unelected) is the one pushing all the buttons.

[alexxxxx]

The European Parliament has no real powers and the Commission (unelected) is the one pushing all the buttons.

that's not true.

[-:Undertaker:-]

that's not true.

The laws come from the Commission, if a company such as BA and Iberia wish to merge they have to have the permission of the Commission. The Commission has the power. In the past you have said that a referendum was not needed on Lisbon because it was not such a big treaty, yet the other day you said the President of the Commission should be elected - so if the Commission does not have much power then why do you want a vote on that post but not the Lisbon Treaty?

[Ardemax]

Slovenian War 1991, Kosovo War 1998-1999, Bosnian War 1992-1995 and the Croatian War of Independence 1991-1995. (as Wig posted)

Slovenian war - 10 days - big whoop. Besides, the EU wasn't properly formed until 92.

Kosovo war - it was between NATO and Yugoslav, not two european countries.

With the Bosnian War - the UN and NATO intervened.

The Croatian War of Independence was a complex war, the UN tried to intervene but without much luck, the EU was still in the early stages of it's modern formation so it wouldn't have done a lot by then in terms of negotiations.

So today (in the last 5-10 years) have there been any European wars? (Between 2 European countries?)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Slovenian war - 10 days - big whoop. Besides, the EU wasn't properly formed until 92.

- A war in Europe.

Kosovo war - it was between NATO and Yugoslav, not two european countries.

- A war in Europe.

With the Bosnian War - the UN and NATO intervened.

- A war in Europe.

The Croatian War of Independence was a complex war, the UN tried to intervene but without much luck, the EU was still in the early stages of it's modern formation so it wouldn't have done a lot by then in terms of negotiations.

- A war in Europe.

So today (in the last 5-10 years) have there been any European wars? (Between 2 European countries?)

Russia V Georgia.

..so what wars has the EU prevented again?

[Ardemax]

i think you ignored my comments there

first of all, the EU nowadays was setup in 92

did these wars rage through europe???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????? no

and answer my question

thanx

[-:Undertaker:-]

You did not say the wars had to 'rage' through Europe, because in truth there will never be another conventional war between world powers ever again, world war II was the last ever world war that would and will be fought without nuclear weapons. (see MAD)

I did answer the question; Russian Federation attacking Georgian breakaway regions.

[Ardemax]

Actually the EU came to an agreement to stop the fighting just before 2 weeks.

Are there any others?

And yes I did say the wars had to rage through Europe, ill get the quote if you want (from previous threads when i was talking about the EU preventing wars).

[-:Undertaker:-]

The European Union did not stop the fighting, by that time the Russian Federation had taken South Ossetia and the other region, there was nothing to stop and still, those regions remain under Russian control. The EU did jack all.

Chechen War
Kosovo War
Bosnian War
..more here.

On the final point, we are not talking about other threads. In this discussion you said "have there been any European wars?" when I answered this you then changed the question to "did these wars rage through europe?"