The BNP - Good or Bad?

[Ardemax]

You do not value democracy, you have admitted yourself that an opinion that is different to yours, one which you do not agree with, should be banned. That is wrong.

no i have not.

give me a direct quote saying where i say if there's an opinion different to mine, so it must be banned...

[-:Undertaker:-]

no i have not.

give me a direct quote saying where i say if there's an opinion different to mine, so it must be banned...

You said that Nick Griffin should not be allowed to deny the holocaust, despite this being his opinion. His opinion is different to yours and you have called for it to be banned, thus calling for an opinion that disagrees with your own to be banned.

[Ardemax]

You said that Nick Griffin should not be allowed to deny the holocaust, despite this being his opinion. His opinion is different to yours and you have called for it to be banned, thus calling for an opinion that disagrees with your own to be banned.

quote plz

[-:Undertaker:-]

You have not directly said that, so are you now telling me that Nick Griffin should be allowed to deny the holocaust? - which is it?

[Black_Apalachi]

you've said the same thing you did in the last post and if you read properly you will know im not the same as Adolf Hitler and feel quite offended that you compared me to Hitler

Oh my days that's exactly what you are doing! You keep saying the state should decide what the people are allowed to believe.

You do not value democracy, you have admitted yourself that an opinion that is different to yours, one which you do not agree with, should be banned. That is wrong.

^^^ This is exactly what you are saying Ardemax. ^^^

Right, forget the topic (the Holocaust). Just think about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means you are allowed to believe anything you want and not be scared to speak out about your beliefs.

However, if you want freedom of speech, you have to accept that others may say things you do not like or agree with. But for freedom of speech to work, you must also accept the other person's beliefs.

You can't have your cake and eat it by claiming freedom of speech BUT telling people what they can or can not believe! Just because it happens to be a touchy subject, it changes nothing.

[MrPinkPanther]

The "Freedom of speech" argument is poor. Of course there are limits on what we can say. Ok the BNP talk about Islam being a religion of war, yes? Well surely Muslims should have the right to insight racial hatred against the British and Americans then? Its a two way street. We have "Freedom of speech" but this freedom is constrained by common decency which is why Racism and Homophobia is against the law and why the BNP should be too.

Also saying "Other countries do it, why shouldn't we" is a poor argument. In the 1940's most of Europe was under Nazi control. "They are facists, why shouldn't we be". It makes no sense! Britain is an independent country for a reason and the vast majority of people in Britain are liberal and have no real problem with migrants.

[Ardemax]

Oh my days that's exactly what you are doing! You keep saying the state should decide what the people are allowed to believe.



^^^ This is exactly what you are saying Ardemax. ^^^

Right, forget the topic (the Holocaust). Just think about freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means you are allowed to believe anything you want and not be scared to speak out about your beliefs.

However, if you want freedom of speech, you have to accept that others may say things you do not like or agree with. But for freedom of speech to work, you must also accept the other person's beliefs.

You can't have your cake and eat it by claiming freedom of speech BUT telling people what they can or can not believe! Just because it happens to be a touchy subject, it changes nothing.

So I can insult you as much as I want, then when you complain I can say it was freedom of speech and your complaint would be ignored. Is that how freedom of speech works then?

[-:Undertaker:-]

The "Freedom of speech" argument is poor. Of course there are limits on what we can say. Ok the BNP talk about Islam being a religion of war, yes? Well surely Muslims should have the right to insight racial hatred against the British and Americans then? Its a two way street. We have "Freedom of speech" but this freedom is constrained by common decency which is why Racism and Homophobia is against the law and why the BNP should be too.

Also saying "Other countries do it, why shouldn't we" is a poor argument. In the 1940's most of Europe was under Nazi control. "They are facists, why shouldn't we be". It makes no sense! Britain is an independent country for a reason and the vast majority of people in Britain are liberal and have no real problem with migrants.

I find aspects of socialism sickening and believe its led to hundreds of millions of deaths throughout history, should Labour, The Socialist Party and others be banned then if the BNP is to be banned? - afterall its come out that Labour infact had a immigration policy that was based on race, just like the BNP - yet I don't see you calling for them to be banned?

So I can insult you as much as I want, then when you complain I can say it was freedom of speech and your complaint would be ignored. Is that how freedom of speech works then?

Denying the holocaust isn't directly insulting anybody, people will get insulted but thats life, just like they wold get insulted by my view that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and wasted soliders lives for nothing.

..so yes, finally you are understanding the meaning of freedom of speech and that is doesn't work one way, it has to work both ways.

[Bun]

About the bit I bolded, you are certainly right about that. Us English look at their policies, like them and vote. You'd have to be foreign mad not to!

please don't group me, a very patriotic Englishman, in with those facist morons. there's a difference between being proud in your country (let's face it not many english people are) and being racist.

[MrPinkPanther]

I find aspects of socialism sickening and believe its led to hundreds of millions of deaths throughout history, should Labour, The Socialist Party and others be banned then if the BNP is to be banned? - afterall its come out that Labour infact had a immigration policy that was based on race, just like the BNP - yet I don't see you calling for them to be banned?

Ok firstly Labour are NOT socialist anymore. Secondly it was mainly the conservatives that had an immigration policy based on race with politicians like Enoch Powell. Even if Labour did have one then why should they be banned, they don't now, if they still had it then I believe they should. I'd also like to point out that I am not a Labour supporter, I vote for the Liberal Democrats.

Denying the holocaust isn't directly insulting anybody, people will get insulted but thats life, just like they wold get insulted by my view that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and wasted soliders lives for nothing.

What about insulting the lives of 6 Million dead people who were unquestionably killed by the Nazis? Or how about their families who still exist today? How would you feel if all of your family and friends were ruthlessly massacred systematically in a "Death factory" and then a large group of people denied that they had died? You are frankly ignorant about the effects of events like this.