The BNP - Good or Bad?

[Seatherny]

I do dislike people who come here from other countries, raise 10 children just to get benefits, work and pretend they aren't and so do most Asians here.
But that is not what this debate is about.

[MrPinkPanther]

it isn't freedom of speech if its restricted!

It is in a modern society. There are always going to be restrictions of freedom of speech. There are in every country in the world. Essentially you are saying people should have the right to be racist and homophobic aren't you?

[-:Undertaker:-]

It is in a modern society. There are always going to be restrictions of freedom of speech. There are in every country in the world. Essentially you are saying people should have the right to be racist and homophobic aren't you?

There is a big difference between denial of a historical event and homophobia/racism.

[Tash.]

That is otherwise known as democracy, and yes the muslin extremists can say 9/11 was a conspiracy if they wish, as long as they are not spreading hatred. Denying the holocaust is not hatred.

..so what, are you asking us to live in a world in which we can't say what we feel because it could hurt peoples feelings? - bring out the cotton wool..

I am not debating that, I am saying that if the BNP isn't allowed to be an organisation for white people then neither should the Black Police Officers Association be allowed to be an organisation for black people. I would prefer no racial groups at all, but while the state does it then the BNP have every right to also do it.

I myself am an advocate for freedom of speech, I wanted Nick Griffin to be allowed to clarify himself on Question time. However, as I have said before, the law has put restrictions on freedom of speech and I think that denying the holocaust is just one of these things that should not be accepted as being allowed. I wasn't actually referring to the 9/11 conspiracies, I was referring to the muslim extremists who keep finding ways through 'freedom of speech' to say that the western world is evil and that it should be wiped off the earth or be put under sharia law. That is their opinion and in your world of freedom of speech on anything and everything, they'd be allowed to spout this nonsense.

No i'm not saying that, i'm merely saying that you cannot deny a fact. You'd have to be a pretty heartless person to think that its ok for someone to deny millions of people died in gas chambers just because its their opinion. I'm not saying wrap everyone in cotton wool, I for one do not care what Nick Griffins opinion is on anything, he's a vile excuse for a human being, but my morals tell me that we shouldn't sit back and allow him to deny such a heinous crime existed.

The BNP aren't just an organisation for white people though. They are aiming to enhance the lives of white people at the detriment of people they deem to not be worthy. The Black Police Officers Association promotes harmony, the BNP clearly do not, they promote hatred there is a stark difference.

Edit-

What people do not understand (and I speak from personal experience here), non-british people are not taking over the society in Britain. There is still a majority white people here and always will be.



Another thing is, most non-british treat white people with respect. I have lived in India for 10 years and have been several times since I moved out, and every time I went to tourist attractions, a majority of the white people (no idea if they were British or not), treated people with such disrespect its unbelievable.

Exactly, the BNP set out to scare monger people into believing that they are going to be wiped out or something. It's just not true.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I myself am an advocate for freedom of speech, I wanted Nick Griffin to be allowed to clarify himself on Question time. However, as I have said before, the law has put restrictions on freedom of speech and I think that denying the holocaust is just one of these things that should not be accepted as being allowed. I wasn't actually referring to the 9/11 conspiracies, I was referring to the muslim extremists who keep finding ways through 'freedom of speech' to say that the western world is evil and that it should be wiped off the earth or be put under sharia law. That is their opinion and in your world of freedom of speech on anything and everything, they'd be allowed to spout this nonsense.

No i'm not saying that, i'm merely saying that you cannot deny a fact. You'd have to be a pretty heartless person to think that its ok for someone to deny millions of people died in gas chambers just because its their opinion. I'm not saying wrap everyone in cotton wool, I for one do not care what Nick Griffins opinion is on anything, he's a vile excuse for a human being, but my morals tell me that we shouldn't sit back and allow him to deny such a heinous crime existed.

The BNP aren't just an organisation for white people though. They are aiming to enhance the lives of white people at the detriment of people they deem to not be worthy. The Black Police Officers Association promotes harmony, the BNP clearly do not, they promote hatred there is a stark difference.

You can deny a fact when you don't believe its a fact.

Do not say you support freedom of speech when you are calling for somebodys opinion on a historical event to be made illegal, because thats would be like me saying my username is blue.

[Seatherny]

If freedom of speech is allowed without limits, then I should be able to go around supporting terrorists without being arrested. I should be allowed to go around saying how great I think the bombings in London were without being arrested or anything.

No. No one would tolerate it and they shouldn't.

(knowing what people on here are like, no I do not believe in anything I said in my first paragraph).

[Tash.]

..people don't have a problem with black/brown/yellow or whatever colour or nationality people are from, we do however have a problem with the uncontrolled immigration that our government is allowing in which to put it frank, scum (criminals, benefit cheats), are moving to this country.

What are you talking about? The majority of people who cheat the benefit system are actually impoverished lower class brits who are not immigrants. You see it all the time.. how can you argue that just because someone is coming into the country right now they must be here to commit a crime or to scam the benefit system?

You can deny a fact when you don't believe its a fact.

Do not say you support freedom of speech when you are calling for somebodys opinion on a historical event to be made illegal, because thats would be like me saying my username is blue.

I can say that, I do advocate freedom of speech, do not tell me what I do, you don't know me. Again you are making a comparison between two things that are not related. Saying your username is blue will not deny the deaths of millions of people now will it? Please use your brain when trying to do a comparison.

If freedom of speech is allowed without limits, then I should be able to go around supporting terrorists without being arrested. I should be allowed to go around saying how great I think the bombings in London were without being arrested or anything.

No. No one would tolerate it and they shouldn't.

(knowing what people on here are like, no I do not believe in anything I said in my first paragraph).

This is exactly what i was trying to point out, there are restrictions on freedom of speech in our democracy and they are there to protect public safety.

[Seatherny]

..people don't have a problem with black/brown/yellow or whatever colour or nationality people are from, we do however have a problem with the uncontrolled immigration that our government is allowing in which to put it frank, scum (criminals, benefit cheats), are moving to this country.

Also I just love how people think non-british are just here to steal benefits. They obviously don't create any jobs. Nope. :rolleyes:

[-:Undertaker:-]

What are you talking about? The majority of people who cheat the benefit system are actually impoverished lower class brits who are not immigrants. You see it all the time.. how can you argue that just because someone is coming into the country right now they must be here to commit a crime or to scam the benefit system?

I did not say that, I said that those who do - they are the people we have a problem with, the people who we do not want.

I can say that, I do advocate freedom of speech, do not tell me what I do, you don't know me. Again you are making a comparison between to things that are not related. Saying your username is blue will not deny the deaths of millions of people now will it? Please use your brain when trying to do a comparison.

I do know you, you are prepared to make somebodies opinion on a historical event illegal, therefore you do not value free speech, or should I say, you do, as long as it falls into line with your opinion.

This is exactly what i was trying to point out, there are restrictions on freedom of speech in our democracy and they are there to protect public safety.

Denial of a historical event and homophobia/racism are two totally different things.

Also I just love how people think non-british are just here to steal benefits. They obviously don't create any jobs. Nope. :rolleyes:

Where and when have I ever said i'm against immigration?

[MrPinkPanther]

There is a big difference between denial of a historical event and homophobia/racism.

No there isn't, not in terms of freedom of speech. You say freedom of speech isnt freedom unless its limitless when it never should be limitless because of homophobia and racism. Denying the holocaust is just as bad as racism or homophobia, like them it directly offends people (The relatives of the murdered) and disrespects the dead. Why should 6 million murdered people be allowed to be denied when its proven in absolute fact? Global warming isn't proven in fact, neither is the big bang, feel free to deny those all you want, it isn't ruining anyones lives so thats fine.