The BNP - Good or Bad?

[Ardemax]

The jewish religion is not a race last time I checked. On the issue of Hitler and Mussolini, of course they did much worse things which begs the question of why they have been compared to the BNP in the first place. But I don't mind comparisons because thats how you learn from history, so did Hitler and Mussolini ban free speech? - yes. Are people in this thread proposing to ban free speech? - yes.

On your last point shows the hypocrisy of your argument, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

Just oh my God. The bold parts goes for EVERYONE including you. I think it's the most obvioust thing like... ever.

Why have Hitler and Mussolini been compared to the BNP? I don't think I've compared them both to the BNP?

[Tash.]

The jewish religion is not a race last time I checked. On the issue of Hitler and Mussolini, of course they did much worse things which begs the question of why they have been compared to the BNP in the first place. But I don't mind comparisons because thats how you learn from history, so did Hitler and Mussolini ban free speech? - yes. Are people in this thread proposing to ban free speech? - yes.

On your last point shows the hypocrisy of your argument, just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

I don't see where I referred to the jews at all. I said the BNP's opinions discriminate against whole races of people, and they do. Nick Griffin is a racist, he does not like blacks in this country, nor does he like asian people. So I am really not sure why you mentioned the jews when you quoted me. You are the one who keeps comparing the BNP to Hitler and Mussolini when we're talking about freedom of speech also so you should maybe ask yourself why you keep comparing them.

I am not the only one who disagrees with their opinions, this is not a personal vendetta against them its recognition of what the BNP are and stand for which is hatred and racism. I have not proposed to ban everything I don't agree with, there are many things I don't like but this is very different. Racism is not allowed person to person by law, nor is it allowed to be homophobic and yet the BNP manage to bypass these laws by hiding behind the freedom of speech facade. People like you are the ones who argue they should get away with it and it's pathetic. Freedom of speech is there so that people can speak out against oppression. You keep talking about 'the left' (which by the way you keep grouping me with, and thats laughable because you don't know my politics) trying to wrap people in cotton wool, but the 'right' which is what I presume you are proposes we let people spout racism. I know who i'd rather side with.

[Dan2nd]

Surely if they are banned from making their views known future voters won't know their true agenda and will vote BNP for watered down policies they are aloud to talk about?

I am proud to live in a Britain where all people from different walks of life are welcome.. but I'd also be proud to live in a Britain where we can voice our opinions without being gagged or demonised..

[Tash.]

Surely if they are banned from making their views known future voters won't know their true agenda and will vote BNP for watered down policies they are aloud to talk about?

I am proud to live in a Britain where all people from different walks of life are welcome.. but I'd also be proud to live in a Britain where we can voice our opinions without being gagged or demonised..

I understand what you're saying but alot of the people who voted for the BNP in the European elections voted them because of their radical policies. That's the problem with letting them say whatever they want, especially in the current climate politically and economically, it's dangerous.

[MrPinkPanther]

It 'could be' deemed offence, i'm pretty sure if somebody gets that worked up over what Nick Griffins opinions are over the holocaust they have some serious issues and need to find something else to do with their time instead of taking offence at opinions that differ to their own. On your point, stop worrying what people might think or whether they will take offence, if they do they do, thats life.

If you have different opinions in a free world then people will take offence, human nature.

My best friend is Homosexual and I can tell you he would be HIGHLY offended if you were to deny thousands of what he considers to be his own people died in Death camps such as Treblinka or Concentration camps like Auschwitz.

So by your theory should I be able to preach radical Islam? Should I be allowed to inspire racial hatred against the British people? Its my free speech.

They should not be banned as banning them would make you the facist.

NoOn the second point, if they did not commit violence/crime then yes that I would deem that facist, as you are doing the exact thing them two evil crackpots did when they got into power.

Ok you're an idiot. Do you know what Facism is? It's not oppressing freedom of speech. It's following an authoritarian and nationalistic political ideology. The complete opposite of what we are arguing. If anything call us Communists.

The jewish religion is not a race last time I checked.

I'm not sure why you said that, it came out of nowhere but "Jews" can either be a race or a religion.

[Ardemax]

Surely if they are banned from making their views known future voters won't know their true agenda and will vote BNP for watered down policies they are aloud to talk about?

I am proud to live in a Britain where all people from different walks of life are welcome.. but I'd also be proud to live in a Britain where we can voice our opinions without being gagged or demonised..

How ironick your signature is compared to our debate about the denial of the holocaust.

So I'll put it to you, is it wrong to deny the holocaust?

[Dan2nd]

How ironick your signature is compared to our debate about the denial of the holocaust.

So I'll put it to you, is it wrong to deny the holocaust?

While I totally disagree with what Nick Griffin has said I still think anyone British or not should have the right to express their opinion

I'm talking for all races all genders all sexualities here when I say we should be aloud to express our views even if they are controversial.

and as far as I'm aware Help For Heroes has nothing to do with the Holocaust so I'm not sure how that makes anything ironic unless I've misunderstood what you have said?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oh my god! Stop picking at small things. You know bloody well what she means! :eusa_wall :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Then it isn't racism. I can see people here are trying to turn it into a racism argument, when its about the holocaust and denial of historical events, not racism.

Just oh my God. The bold parts goes for EVERYONE including you. I think it's the most obvioust thing like... ever.

Why have Hitler and Mussolini been compared to the BNP? I don't think I've compared them both to the BNP?

Yes they do, I don't agree that the holocaust was made up by the allies either, and neither do the vast majority of people in this country. I don't think you quite understand what i'm getting at, it may not be the same as our opinion but its somebody elses opinion so therefore our opinion of it shouldn't and doesn't make it wrong for them to let their opinion be known.

I don't see where I referred to the jews at all. I said the BNP's opinions discriminate against whole races of people, and they do. Nick Griffin is a racist, he does not like blacks in this country, nor does he like asian people. So I am really not sure why you mentioned the jews when you quoted me. You are the one who keeps comparing the BNP to Hitler and Mussolini when we're talking about freedom of speech also so you should maybe ask yourself why you keep comparing them.

I am not the only one who disagrees with their opinions, this is not a personal vendetta against them its recognition of what the BNP are and stand for which is hatred and racism. I have not proposed to ban everything I don't agree with, there are many things I don't like but this is very different. Racism is not allowed person to person by law, nor is it allowed to be homophobic and yet the BNP manage to bypass these laws by hiding behind the freedom of speech facade. People like you are the ones who argue they should get away with it and it's pathetic. Freedom of speech is there so that people can speak out against oppression. You keep talking about 'the left' (which by the way you keep grouping me with, and thats laughable because you don't know my politics) trying to wrap people in cotton wool, but the 'right' which is what I presume you are proposes we let people spout racism. I know who i'd rather side with.

I'm not comparing the BNP to Hitler and Mussolini, i'm comparing everyone here who wants to ban them for holocaust denial the facists, because thats part of what facism is, banning free speech. On the right/left argument, you have just proved to me how the left groups all the right (Conservatives, UKIP etc) with racism, homophobia, xenophobia to try and tarnish the right.

The right merely sticks up for freedom of speech and freedom, thats why we allow socialist parties like Labour, Liberal Democrats and other parties to exist and operate in this country, whereas in socialist countries all Conservative aka right wing parties are banned.

Surely if they are banned from making their views known future voters won't know their true agenda and will vote BNP for watered down policies they are aloud to talk about?

I am proud to live in a Britain where all people from different walks of life are welcome.. but I'd also be proud to live in a Britain where we can voice our opinions without being gagged or demonised..

Could not agree more, thats why we fought two world wars against draconian and evil European powers for freedom and democracy.

I understand what you're saying but alot of the people who voted for the BNP in the European elections voted them because of their radical policies. That's the problem with letting them say whatever they want, especially in the current climate politically and economically, it's dangerous.

THAT-IS-DEMOCRACY-IN-ACTION.

My best friend is Homosexual and I can tell you he would be HIGHLY offended if you were to deny thousands of what he considers to be his own people died in Death camps such as Treblinka or Concentration camps like Auschwitz.

I'm gay and I don't consider gay people my own people, i'm sick to death of militantism among the left which groups everyone together and creates division. To be quite frank, your friend needs to stop putting himself and his own opinions over democracy.

So by your theory should I be able to preach radical Islam? Should I be allowed to inspire racial hatred against the British people? Its my free speech.

My policy would be that as long as you are not intructing people to go and hurt others, then yes you would be allowed to preach it. However we are not talking about the BNP in general and hate, we are talking about denial of the holocaust.

Ok you're an idiot. Do you know what Facism is? It's not oppressing freedom of speech. It's following an authoritarian and nationalistic political ideology. The complete opposite of what we are arguing. If anything call us Communists.

You have just contradicted yourself before your very eyes, authoritian is supressing freedom of speech, thats what authoritian is, you know.. like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Lenin and all the other nutters?

I'm not sure why you said that, it came out of nowhere but "Jews" can either be a race or a religion.

The jewish religion and it followers are not a race, therefore bringing racism into an argument about denial of the holocaust is diverting the subject.

[Seatherny]

Racisim or discriminating against a religion, not much of a difference if you think about it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Denial of the holocaust isn't discriminating against a religion. It is questioning whether or not the holocaust occured and whether or not it was part of Allied propaganda - history is there to be questioned.