The BNP - Good or Bad?

[Bun]

i'll reply to all my quotes later, really cba now. must say i agree with flyduo though.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You keep saying the vast majority of the public don't support LabConLib despite the fact that they clearly do. You can't just keep making things up. You say they only vote for them because of FPTP and they know UKIP won't get in yet:

• The vast majority of the population aren't aware of the flaws in first past the post
• Hell is going to freeze over before the liberal democrats get into power and yet they get WAY more votes than UKIP

The European elections are TOTALLY different to General Elections and don't blame it on the electoral system. Liberal Democrats ALWAYS perform worse in European Elections because some people aren't too keen on their Europhile attitude and equally some are keen on UKIP because of their Eurosceptic attitude. By your logic the liberal democrats should perform better in EU elections because the electoral system benefits more and yet they dont.

The vast majority of posts that I have seen by you have been ill informed and you seem to think that if you repeat yourself it suddenly becomes right. IF we had had a General Election at the same time as the EU election UKIP would NOT be in opposition.

They do, its called tactical voting hence why its always harder for another party/an independant to gain a 'safe seat' off Labour/Conservative. The same goes for when Conservative try and gain seats in Lib/Lab strongholds - they struggle and its the same the other way around. Surely if you believe its the case the you dont have a problem with the UK swapping to PR and leaving the FPTP system?

As for the Liberal Democrats, I believe they are also for the PR system because they lose out on a lot of seats that should be theirs going by past General Elections? - the same goes for the smaller parties. Why do you think the Conservatives and Labour (only ones who ever gain power) are so keen to keep FPTP?

You can say that, but trust me - a lot of people swap at General Elections and use tactical voting just to get rid of the party in government. For example, a UKIP supporter in a Labour seat may vote the main opposition there with any chance of success (a Conservative Party) even if they dont support them. My parents are just one example, they are pretty strong politically minded yet voted Liberal Democrats for a number of years just to keep Labour out of office in our area despite the fact they dont agree with a single thing that the Liberal Democrats stand for.

That is tactical voting and its widespread, people are far more open when it comes to PR elections (see European Parliamentary Elections 2009) and thus vote for other parties because they know that their vote will count and make a difference. If I vote Conservative/UKIP where I live, I waste my vote and the same happens around the country in all different seats.

I'm not being naive, if I thought UKIP had no chance then i'd be honest with you. The same way we knew in 2005 that although many wanted it, Michael Howard was not going to win the General Election. The Liberal Democrats always do better in General Elections because the vote gets pushed between the Lib/Lab/Con and those who are fed up with both will use a protest vote for the Liberal Democrats. The same happens when a Tory government is in office, although the Liberal Democrats are very much to the left often Tories who are dissatified with the Conservatives will vote for the Liberal Democrats as a protest vote.

[MrPinkPanther]

They do, its called tactical voting hence why its always harder for another party/an independant to gain a 'safe seat' off Labour/Conservative. The same goes for when Conservative try and gain seats in Lib/Lab strongholds - they struggle and its the same the other way around. Surely if you believe its the case the you dont have a problem with the UK swapping to PR and leaving the FPTP system?

As for the Liberal Democrats, I believe they are also for the PR system because they lose out on a lot of seats that should be theirs going by past General Elections? - the same goes for the smaller parties. Why do you think the Conservatives and Labour (only ones who ever gain power) are so keen to keep FPTP?

I don't think you understood my point. I'm all for PR but I'm saying UKIP dont get a higher percentage of the vote in EU elections because of the Electoral systems, its because of their EU hating status much like the LD's and their EU loving status.

You can say that, but trust me - a lot of people swap at General Elections and use tactical voting just to get rid of the party in government. For example, a UKIP supporter in a Labour seat may vote the main opposition there with any chance of success (a Conservative Party) even if they dont support them. My parents are just one example, they are pretty strong politically minded yet voted Liberal Democrats for a number of years just to keep Labour out of office in our area despite the fact they dont agree with a single thing that the Liberal Democrats stand for.

That is tactical voting and its widespread, people are far more open when it comes to PR elections (see European Parliamentary Elections 2009) and thus vote for other parties because they know that their vote will count and make a difference. If I vote Conservative/UKIP where I live, I waste my vote and the same happens around the country in all different seats.

See above. If this were true then the Liberal Democrats would benefit more. UKIP recieve more votes as a protest because of their anti-EU status and people feel they are showing the government what they think of the EU.

I'm not being naive, if I thought UKIP had no chance then i'd be honest with you. The same way we knew in 2005 that although many wanted it, Michael Howard was not going to win the General Election. The Liberal Democrats always do better in General Elections because the vote gets pushed between the Lib/Lab/Con and those who are fed up with both will use a protest vote for the Liberal Democrats. The same happens when a Tory government is in office, although the Liberal Democrats are very much to the left often Tories who are dissatified with the Conservatives will vote for the Liberal Democrats as a protest vote.

Well you are being extremely naive aren't you. You seem to think that in the EU election last year they had 16.5% of popular support and at the same time opinion polls showed "Others" (Includes, UKIP, BNP, Green party etc) only had 10-12% of the vote. Thus proving that they are cast as a protest vote and likely had <5% of the vote. See unlike you I am able to back myself up with real figures and sources:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8280050.stm

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't think you understood my point. I'm all for PR but I'm saying UKIP dont get a higher percentage of the vote in EU elections because of the Electoral systems, its because of their EU hating status much like the LD's and their EU loving status.

See above. If this were true then the Liberal Democrats would benefit more. UKIP recieve more votes as a protest because of their anti-EU status and people feel they are showing the government what they think of the EU.

Well you are being extremely naive aren't you. You seem to think that in the EU election last year they had 16.5% of popular support and at the same time opinion polls showed "Others" (Includes, UKIP, BNP, Green party etc) only had 10-12% of the vote.

Thus proving that they are cast as a protest vote and likely had <5% of the vote. See unlike you I am able to back myself up with real figures and sources: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8280050.stm

UKIP last year gained around 16% of the popular vote, as was shown by opinon polls at the time which had UKIP on 15% to 19%, meanwhile the BNP was on the 5%/6% mark and Labour was on around the same as UKIP which was 15% to 19%. You say sources, well heres another source which shows the opinion polls before the election and as you can quite clearly see, UKIP was not grouped with the 'Others' with only "10% to 12%" of the vote - UKIP got more votes and more of the popular vote than Labour and the Liberal Democrats, hence why it came second in the election.



As for UKIP gaining more votes because of their eurosceptic attitude, well yes thats true because thats a policy and people vote based on policies otherwise we wouldnt have elections. You call me naive for actually telling you what the election figures were, yet were you not the one telling us in another thread about a month ago that the Liberal Democrats were going to do really good in this upcoming election? - UKIP may gain one seat and i'm not pretending that they'll do fantastic by sweeping into government/opposition but meanwhile you pretend to yourself that the Liberal Democrats are going to do fantastically from what I remember of that thread. Yeah, here it is your exact words;

"The Liberal Democrats are the ones to watch this election. I can see them becoming a more mainstream party with the possibility of opening up a 3 way election in 2015" - They continue to trial in the polls at the 18% mark and this time around they dont have the advantage of disaffected Tory voters because they are turning to UKIP/BNP.

[Soy]

vote plaid cymru!!!!!!!!!!!

everyone should speak welsh!!!!!!!!!!!

[lazerman]

Im voting the BNP and the family are too.

The boarders are to be closed.

[Robbie]

Im voting the BNP and the family are too.

The boarders are to be closed.

COMPLETELY closing the borders would be suicidal for the country. We need some CONTROL of immigration, not just closing the borders

[lazerman]

Reasons why?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Reasons why?

We want people who will help our country, people who will work and people who will intergrate. The majority of people want this, but alas the government just ignores it and the same with the Lib/Con opposition. Although I can sympathise with you, people are sick of it and nobody listening so they just think "well screw it, just ban the whole lot of them" and hence why the BNP continues to grow.

[lazerman]

Doesn't surprises me,


Never thought strongly about BNP that much till this happened:
http://habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=630094


Government obvs dont care about us, we gonna be turning in to some Islam country pretty soon if it not already happened.