Apple vs Google - Getting Personal.

[GommeInc]

I never actually said they brought out the first touchscreen phone nor the first MP3 player, but they brought out by far the most innovative and by far the best offerings of both.

Liar -

"They were the people to first bring the personal computer to the masses with the Apple Lisa and that was also the first computer to actually be COLOUR! God forbid could i use a computer these days if it was in black and white. They also brought multi-touch and a lot of other innovations."

They didn't even sell personal computers to the masses.

Also Multitouch was there's with a partnership, partnership always suggest they also had something to do with it, pretty much the same as the awesome Project Natal is their's through a purchase of a smaller company...

Also regarding the iPad, it has it's pro's, why did Apple need to change something that was already popular?

No, the partnership was between two people (or a small group of people). Apple just saw an opportunity and applied it to the iPhone. They didn't create multi-touch nor help develop it. They just implemented into a phone setting.

And exactly, the iPad was advertised to be better than a NetBook - a cross between an iPhone (first FAIL by Jobs, it hasn't got any phone functionality) and a MacBook (the second FAIL by Jobs, the iPad Touch XL relies on a MacBook/NetBook/PC/Mac to function).

[marriott0.01]

Liar -

"They were the people to first bring the personal computer to the masses with the Apple Lisa and that was also the first computer to actually be COLOUR! God forbid could i use a computer these days if it was in black and white. They also brought multi-touch and a lot of other innovations."

They didn't even sell personal computers to the masses.


No, the partnership was between two people (or a small group of people). Apple just saw an opportunity and applied it to the iPhone. They didn't create multi-touch nor help develop it. They just implemented into a phone setting.

And exactly, the iPad was advertised to be better than a NetBook - a cross between an iPhone (first FAIL by Jobs, it hasn't got any phone functionality) and a MacBook (the second FAIL by Jobs, the iPad Touch XL relies on a MacBook/NetBook/PC/Mac to function).

Exactly I said first to bring the personal computer to the masses, I said I never said 'first touchscreen phone nor the first MP3 player' they did bring the first REAL colour personal computer to the masses, the first one with a GUI is what I'm talking about. And Masses, yes. it was the masses, for those days, obviously not talking about the masses we have these days as that is just completely different.

Okay I may have been mistaken about the Multi-touch, the people to actually CREATE it were people at a University, but what Apple did was ADD to the innovation, which made it amazing..? So apple didn't just 'apply it to the iPhone' but they remastered the initial multi-touch development, so its not just a phone setting. And they were the first people to bring multi-touch to market.

The iPad is better than a netbook, netbooks are good for no one, they are small and pathetic. And it is a cross between an iPhone/iPod Touch, as it does have 3G, but it was never meant to be a phone, because would you SERIOUSLY want to put that massive thing to your face to answer a call? - no? Didn't think so. And the iPad was never meant to replace your computer.. Steve Jobs said himself. It's meant to be an extension on your internet usage out of using the computer all the time.. Obviously you'll still need a computer? And you may hate the iPad, but obviously a lot of people don't since it has sold a LOT of pre-orders, even more than the initial iPhone.

[GommeInc]

The idiot used NetBooks in his speech, he was comparing the iPod Touch XL to what the NetBook does, and failed miserably. Any techie person would of noticed this. The funny thing is, the Microsoft Courier, the HP tablet and the rest of the tablet PCs using a version of Windows 7, are rumoured to be using a proper OS, and can actually self-sustain themselves like a NetBook, but in a digital frame sort of way with USBs and so fort. The iPad is just a joke as far as the tech world is concerned. Apple failed just by calling it the iPad, with which the name has been used before in a viral video (or it existed on TV, not sure) which was a joke on ladies absorbent pads The name is far too similar to iPod too, no other company names its product so similarly. Not to mention it is seen as the iPod Touch, but for the elderly or people with poor eyesight. It's a ghastly blooming thing too, with an inch of border around the screen. Very digital picture frame-esque

[marriott0.01]

The idiot used NetBooks in his speech, he was comparing the iPod Touch XL to what the NetBook does, and failed miserably. Any techie person would of noticed this. The funny thing is, the Microsoft Courier, the HP tablet and the rest of the tablet PCs using a version of Windows 7, are rumoured to be using a proper OS, and can actually self-sustain themselves like a NetBook, but in a digital frame sort of way with USBs and so fort. The iPad is just a joke as far as the tech world is concerned. Apple failed just by calling it the iPad, with which the name has been used before in a viral video (or it existed on TV, not sure) which was a joke on ladies absorbent pads The name is far too similar to iPod too, no other company names its product so similarly. Not to mention it is seen as the iPod Touch, but for the elderly or people with poor eyesight. It's a ghastly blooming thing too, with an inch of border around the screen. Very digital picture frame-esque

Tbh, Netbooks are an answer to nothing. Netbooks are meant to be a device which is ideal for watching movies/viewing photos/browsing the web. To be honest the screens are generally unvibrant and completely awful. They're also meant to be good for productivity, which to be honest, why?! Can you type on that keyboard? Nope. I sure can't. When going to tech events like CES or Macworld or even MWC, I'll always take my MacBook Pro with me, I'll probably do the same on Saturday when I go to the Ideal Home show, I'd never replace it with either the iPad or a crappy little netbook.

The HP slate, to be honest don't get me started. That thing is a tech mans wet dream lols, same with the Microsoft Courier. The HP slate running Windows 7 is great, hopefully it can actually RUN Windows 7 unlike most of Dell's computers.. lol. The courier is no longer running Windows 7 and is getting it's own software and UI, if you haven't seen the latest UI just ask me to send you a link, and I'll be happy to show you.. But yeah them two products beat the iPad? I've never said the iPad was AMAZING! It's good at what it's meant to do, it's bloody brilliant for photos and videos and even web, but it's like a netbook crap for productivity.

The iPad is a good device in its own respect, it fits a certain niche of the market, rather than the masses, much the same as netbooks. Joshua Toplosky who is the editor of engadget actually tweeted 'Just ordered an iPad, and I can't think of why on earth I did?' Because plain and simple, some people don't see the point of the iPad as it's just a reworked version of the iPod Touch but some people do see the point, and it is a great device if you were a MASSIVE fan of the iPod Touch...

I saw that video was rather funny lols.

And it's actually funny to hear you say about the resemblance to a digital photo frame, as my actual thoughts on the iPad, is that the photo slideshows are epic. lols. Honestly, I would rather use this thing as a digital photo frame than any other product on the market.

Now, as I've said, several times... I do believe that some tech companies like Microsoft, HP etc are great as they have brought innovation to the market, but they've done it without stealing, so isn't it right that Apple can protect their innovation from being stolen from?

[xxMATTGxx]

I think Apple is a big joke at the moment to be honest, what Tom (Recursion) said is very true. I'm on Google's side all the way, I use their services everyday.

[GommeInc]

Tbh, Netbooks are an answer to nothing. Netbooks are meant to be a device which is ideal for watching movies/viewing photos/browsing the web. To be honest the screens are generally unvibrant and completely awful. They're also meant to be good for productivity, which to be honest, why?! Can you type on that keyboard? Nope. I sure can't. When going to tech events like CES or Macworld or even MWC, I'll always take my MacBook Pro with me, I'll probably do the same on Saturday when I go to the Ideal Home show, I'd never replace it with either the iPad or a crappy little netbook.

You clearly have not seen what alot of students are using A NetBook is ideal for students - cheap, reliable and productive. They come with webcams too, which is pretty good, a student can get in contact via webcam to people. They're more productive than what an iPad is capable of - although the iPad is now no longer compared to a NetBook, you might as well put salt in Job's wound, he made a terrible mistake attacking the NetBook market with bias and ignorance.

The HP slate, to be honest don't get me started. That thing is a tech mans wet dream lols, same with the Microsoft Courier. The HP slate running Windows 7 is great, hopefully it can actually RUN Windows 7 unlike most of Dell's computers.. lol. The courier is no longer running Windows 7 and is getting it's own software and UI, if you haven't seen the latest UI just ask me to send you a link, and I'll be happy to show you.. But yeah them two products beat the iPad? I've never said the iPad was AMAZING! It's good at what it's meant to do, it's bloody brilliant for photos and videos and even web, but it's like a netbook crap for productivity.

So the Courier is no longer using a type of Windows 7? Urgh, why must they be so annoying? :/ Then again, the way the Courier is being advertised is like the iPad, good for books and can be used like one. Microsoft did a better job announcing the Courier than Apple did with the iPad - Microsoft told you what the plans were and what it would be ideal for, while Apple were trying to make a new product out of an already existing product - just with a new iBook Store (or whatever Apple ahve called it).

The iPad is a good device in its own respect, it fits a certain niche of the market, rather than the masses, much the same as netbooks. Joshua Toplosky who is the editor of engadget actually tweeted 'Just ordered an iPad, and I can't think of why on earth I did?' Because plain and simple, some people don't see the point of the iPad as it's just a reworked version of the iPod Touch but some people do see the point, and it is a great device if you were a MASSIVE fan of the iPod Touch...

What niche is this? It just turned up on the door with a note saying "Buy me!" That area of this particularl market has always exist under the iPod Touch market, except now they have a larger one to use with 3G. Again, the way it was released was poorly done. It's not a new product, they might as well of chucked it in with the iPod Touch and said "here's a bigger one, don't get too existed - it's nothing special."

And it's actually funny to hear you say about the resemblance to a digital photo frame, as my actual thoughts on the iPad, is that the photo slideshows are epic. lols. Honestly, I would rather use this thing as a digital photo frame than any other product on the market.

I thought it was an Apple branded picture frame in the pictures. That border is rediculous

Now, as I've said, several times... I do believe that some tech companies like Microsoft, HP etc are great as they have brought innovation to the market, but they've done it without stealing, so isn't it right that Apple can protect their innovation from being stolen from?

But they're protecting something that can be done by anyone - it's not special. This is the argument with patents and mobile UIs. The US patent system is so bonkers you can patent anything, in a general way. Apple have patented Multi-Touch, which is generalised and not specific. While other countries, you can only patent the way in which multi-touch is implemented as a concept. Apple are just trying to hog something that anyone should be able to do, because, naturally, they're worried that other companies will (and mostly definitely will anyway), do a better job. Isn't this what comes in Android 2.2?

[Firehorse]

Tbh, Netbooks are an answer to nothing. Netbooks are meant to be a device which is ideal for watching movies/viewing photos/browsing the web. To be honest the screens are generally unvibrant and completely awful. They're also meant to be good for productivity, which to be honest, why?! Can you type on that keyboard? Nope. I sure can't. When going to tech events like CES or Macworld or even MWC, I'll always take my MacBook Pro with me, I'll probably do the same on Saturday when I go to the Ideal Home show, I'd never replace it with either the iPad or a crappy little netbook.

The HP slate, to be honest don't get me started. That thing is a tech mans wet dream lols, same with the Microsoft Courier. The HP slate running Windows 7 is great, hopefully it can actually RUN Windows 7 unlike most of Dell's computers.. lol. The courier is no longer running Windows 7 and is getting it's own software and UI, if you haven't seen the latest UI just ask me to send you a link, and I'll be happy to show you.. But yeah them two products beat the iPad? I've never said the iPad was AMAZING! It's good at what it's meant to do, it's bloody brilliant for photos and videos and even web, but it's like a netbook crap for productivity.

The iPad is a good device in its own respect, it fits a certain niche of the market, rather than the masses, much the same as netbooks. Joshua Toplosky who is the editor of engadget actually tweeted 'Just ordered an iPad, and I can't think of why on earth I did?' Because plain and simple, some people don't see the point of the iPad as it's just a reworked version of the iPod Touch but some people do see the point, and it is a great device if you were a MASSIVE fan of the iPod Touch...

I saw that video was rather funny lols.

And it's actually funny to hear you say about the resemblance to a digital photo frame, as my actual thoughts on the iPad, is that the photo slideshows are epic. lols. Honestly, I would rather use this thing as a digital photo frame than any other product on the market.

Now, as I've said, several times... I do believe that some tech companies like Microsoft, HP etc are great as they have brought innovation to the market, but they've done it without stealing, so isn't it right that Apple can protect their innovation from being stolen from?

i'm just casually reading this thread and everyone is making very valid points against apple and it seems you're typing 'till the death to defend them. Its like you religiously worship them or something, take a look from a wider viewpoint and realise that apple aren't all they seem to be. Yes their stuff looks snazzy a lot of the time but thats like buying food for what it looks like and not what it tastes like - the iPad is nowhere near as superior as a netbook and for your information yes you can type easily on netbooks because their keyboards are larger than the horizontal one on the iPad, I own a netbook and FYI: It has all the capabilities of a normal computer apart from no DVD drive which can be added via USB anyway.

On the matter of Steve Jobs, I Quote: "The iPad is truly magical, amazing, superior, wonderful to hold, perfect experience.... etc etc etc" He is just being a salesman when he gets on that stage, nothing more nothing less.

[marriott0.01]

You clearly have not seen what alot of students are using A NetBook is ideal for students - cheap, reliable and productive. They come with webcams too, which is pretty good, a student can get in contact via webcam to people. They're more productive than what an iPad is capable of - although the iPad is now no longer compared to a NetBook, you might as well put salt in Job's wound, he made a terrible mistake attacking the NetBook market with bias and ignorance.

To be honest, the most popular computer with students is still the mac, and using the mac it's obvious why. And of course the iPad is not very productive. Never said it would be because that would just be stupid lols, and I would attack the NetBook market because they are an embarrassment to technology, they're underpowered and just too small. And when you were talking about a webcam to 'get in contact with people' I actually chuckled at that

So the Courier is no longer using a type of Windows 7? Urgh, why must they be so annoying? :/ Then again, the way the Courier is being advertised is like the iPad, good for books and can be used like one. Microsoft did a better job announcing the Courier than Apple did with the iPad - Microsoft told you what the plans were and what it would be ideal for, while Apple were trying to make a new product out of an already existing product - just with a new iBook Store (or whatever Apple ahve called it).

No the courier doesn't but the OS they're using is very nice - http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/m...ctures-and-de/ - AND officially Microsoft haven't announced it, which doesn't surprise me, because why announce an unfinished product? Apple has made a product which is better than the Kindle for reading, and I'd rather read on the iPad than the iPhone or even my laptop. So I guess you've gotta give it props for that. And yeah it is the iBook store.

What niche is this? It just turned up on the door with a note saying "Buy me!" That area of this particularl market has always exist under the iPod Touch market, except now they have a larger one to use with 3G. Again, the way it was released was poorly done. It's not a new product, they might as well of chucked it in with the iPod Touch and said "here's a bigger one, don't get too existed - it's nothing special."

Lols, I love how you phrased that, and no it appeals to people who want the best movie experience and a gorgeous touchscreen device that is large enough to see the internet on the go. Obviously this isn't the end of all products that are going to do this, and this is going to be destroyed by things like the HP slate and the courier (maybe) but we've got to continue moving on, and obviously it isn't going to be anything 'special' rather like every single new phone, as Microsoft put it, 'is just a slightly better version than the last'. So you don't really get much innovation happening in the mobile devices industry anymore, now Apple is on top lols.

I thought it was an Apple branded picture frame in the pictures. That border is rediculous

Maybe if they marketed it as that they could sell one to you

But they're protecting something that can be done by anyone - it's not special. This is the argument with patents and mobile UIs. The US patent system is so bonkers you can patent anything, in a general way. Apple have patented Multi-Touch, which is generalised and not specific. While other countries, you can only patent the way in which multi-touch is implemented as a concept. Apple are just trying to hog something that anyone should be able to do, because, naturally, they're worried that other companies will (and mostly definitely will anyway), do a better job. Isn't this what comes in Android 2.2?

The US Patent System may be like that, but investments are made and returns need to be made, so Apple, as well as any other company that owns IP will sue if people try to make money off their innovation. You wouldn't think a company would spend loads on R&D and then just let other companies use this R&D time and money willy nilly. And I'm a great big fan of Android, I can hardly fault it, I love the OS, and I am great with giving phone advice and generally my advice would have to include Android as an option, as it is amazing...

i'm just casually reading this thread and everyone is making very valid points against apple and it seems you're typing 'till the death to defend them. Its like you religiously worship them or something, take a look from a wider viewpoint and realise that apple aren't all they seem to be. Yes their stuff looks snazzy a lot of the time but thats like buying food for what it looks like and not what it tastes like - the iPad is nowhere near as superior as a netbook and for your information yes you can type easily on netbooks because their keyboards are larger than the horizontal one on the iPad, I own a netbook and FYI: It has all the capabilities of a normal computer apart from no DVD drive which can be added via USB anyway.

On the matter of Steve Jobs, I Quote: "The iPad is truly magical, amazing, superior, wonderful to hold, perfect experience.... etc etc etc" He is just being a salesman when he gets on that stage, nothing more nothing less.

I'm not fighting to the death for Apple, and I wouldn't say Apple are perfect - no company is. I would say Apple are great because there products are good, and you can see i'm taking on the points that people are making, and developing them as a counter argument. I have taken a wider view point, and I do realise that other companies have made a lot of innovations.

Also have you even ever tried typing on an iPad? It is actually so easy to type with, I've tried typing with a netbook, they are incredibly difficult to type with because unlike the keys on the iPad's horizontal screen, they're incredibly cramped. And yes, they may have the capabilities, but they don't have the hardware in them to run Windows like say a normal desktop computer can Windows. It's why i would never recommend to anyone on getting a netbook, they're just not powerful enough or useable enough - yet.

Which CEO of a company ISN'T a salesman? They want you to buy their product quite evidently, otherwise they wouldn't bother getting on stage. Although Steve Jobs has this different personality around him that he can really connect with his audience.

[HotelUser]

I want to point out I find it incredibly humorous how several of you are calling Steve Jobs an idiot, when you've completely neglected what he's done for the industry, without him personal computers wouldn't be where they're at today, and a blackberry or 2 inch screen windows mobile phone would be our best smartphones. For an idiot I guess he sure does well with the innovation, and creation of a multibillion dollar company? And I'm not preaching here because I too think Apple charges too much for products, and I am not a fan of the nonjailbroken app availability on an iPhone. Once you folks learn 1/2 of the business choices Jobs has made, and learn more about his business strategy, I'll be prepared to listen to you rant about him. Otherwise I don't care?

More on what I said about deeming your guys opinions irrelevant: several of you have said some things I don't quite find accurate. For example when Vista was the operating system of choice for a lot of you and I took it upon myself to tell you how horrible it was you disagreed saying there's nothing wrong with Vista and that I was nuts, yett, when Windows 7 rolls around most of you magically have an epiphany and you're now looking through the same glasses as I am, saying it does suck? Why on Earth am I going to now care what you have to say when it's so plainly obvious you're going to follow whatever's new from Microsoft :S

On the iPad, how about instead of criticizing the people buying them (HI TOM) or the product itself (HI MATT), you actually get some experience using one before going all hate on it. When I take a thread and completely tear up the Blackberry I'm going to hate on it yes, but I'm going to provide many reasons why I don't like it based on the experience I have using it. If you don't have experience using it the only real thing you can hate about it's the price. If you're saying anything else I'm not really going to care. It's like when two users on the forum were twittering about how stupid the Magic mouse is. The mouse wasn't out yet and the main hater doesn't use OS X. How on Earth can he justify criticizing it when he's never used it? He can't.

@GommeInc Now that I've got my quad core since Christmas I use Windows 7 and OS X both equally. I honestly don't have a bias against Windows or OS X. My 2007 PC has been re-imaged 4 times. My 2007 iMac has never been re-imaged. My 2007 iMac will boot faster on worse spec than the intel core2quad. When it comes to gaming my quad core's going to win hands down, but for lasting longer my iMac's going to prevail. It's more money but in my opinion it actually is more of a solid product. It's like the iPods, my sony mp3 walkmen is toast but my first gen iPod's still working like new.

[N!ck]

More on what I said about deeming your guys opinions irrelevant: several of you have said some things I don't quite find accurate. For example when Vista was the operating system of choice for a lot of you and I took it upon myself to tell you how horrible it was you disagreed saying there's nothing wrong with Vista and that I was nuts, yett, when Windows 7 rolls around most of you magically have an epiphany and you're now looking through the same glasses as I am, saying it does suck? Why on Earth am I going to now care what you have to say when it's so plainly obvious you're going to follow whatever's new from Microsoft :S

I'm sorry, I've never been a big Vista fan and have never really used it as my primary OS. The service packs fixed a lot of the issues but I'm still not a fan. You want to know why? Because it's more like OS X in the sense of "end users are idiots so let's hide all of the things that more advanced users might want to do and make them more effort to get at" and "lets make it do stuff automatically in the background to make everything "better" but not really let the user have much say in what's going on". Windows 7 is also like this in some ways IMO, not not as bad. It's still far better than XP.

Vista was fail. The iPad will be fail.

Also, this whole multi-touch thing really pisses me off. It's like saying "we were the first people to make scroll wheels on mice work with our OS so let's patent it and not let anyone else use it". Ludicrous hardware patents that actually stop other companies from advancing and being competitors.