UKIP costs Cameron-Conservatives an estimated 20 to 25 seats, depriving them of power

[Catzsy]

Fact: UKIP will have lost their deposit in 90% of the seats they fought.
Fact: They are not representing the silent majority.
Fact: In the present democratic system of government in the UK they do not matter at all.

It is also extremely arrogant of whoever suggested that they cost the Conservatives 20 -25 seats as tbh it is more likely in the absence of UKIP they would have voted for the BNP whose policies are the most similar. Thank god for small mercies I guess as they don't matter either.

[-:Undertaker:-]

oh please! that's like saying the BNP cost the Tories votes because they're both right wing, when really most BNP voters would normally opt for Labour :S. absolute shambles of a story. yeh i'll accept UKIP may have brought out the euro-sceptics from the Tories but this is just pathetic lmao! clutching at straws much?

Evidence to suggest otherwise?

It is very clear from even examning UKIPs top brass that they are disillusioned Tories and Tory HQ is getting worried. The same occured in th 1980s with the Labour Party where many votes started going to splinter votes such as the militant side of Labour and the socialist/communist groups (and if you dispute what i'm saying, go read on it).

Fact: UKIP will have lost their deposit in 90% of the seats they fought.
Fact: They are not representing the silent majority.
Fact: In the present democratic system of government in the UK they do not matter at all.

It is also extremely arrogant of whoever suggested that they cost the Conservatives 20 -25 seats as tbh it is more likely in the absence of UKIP they would have voted for the BNP whose policies are the most similar. Thank god for small mercies I guess as they don't matter either.

Fact: UKIP beat Labour in European 2009 (PR) elections.
Fact: UKIP has far more policies in agreement with public than Labour does.
Fact: Under the unfair FPTP system they have no say despite having a large vote share.

You are both putting party politics inbetween it, UKIP have had an effect as proven by the reaction of both Conservtive bloggers, commentators and Conservative HQ as well. UKIP did have an effect, fourth biggest party with 900,000 votes which deseated even some eurosceptics such as David Heathcoat-amory and Bob Spink sadly where UKIP did not stand down despite Lord Pearson demanding they did so. Let us use some examples from Conservative leaders even; Michael Howard threw many out of the Conservative Party who sympathised with UKIP and David Cameron launched an attack a few years ago on the party not to mention his article in the Daily Mail days before the election which tried to bring in disllusioned Tories.

If you followed politics, you'd know that all is not as it seems within the Conservative Party.

[Catzsy]

Fact: UKIP beat Labour in European 2009 (PR) elections.
Fact: UKIP has far more policies in agreement with public than Labour does.
Fact: Under the unfair FPTP system they have no say despite having a large vote share.

You are both putting party politics inbetween it, UKIP have had an effect as proven by the reaction of both Conservtive bloggers, commentators and Conservative HQ as well. UKIP did have an effect, fourth biggest party with 900,000 votes which deseated even some eurosceptics such as David Heathcoat-amory and Bob Spink sadly where UKIP did not stand down despite Lord Pearson demanding they did so. Let us use some examples from Conservative leaders even; Michael Howard threw many out of the Conservative Party who sympathised with UKIP and David Cameron launched an attack a few years ago on the party not to mention his article in the Daily Mail days before the election which tried to bring in disllusioned Tories.

If you followed politics, you'd know that all is not as it seems within the Conservative Party.

They do not matter in UK Politics. End of. Not interested in what is happening in the conservative party as this thread was about a claim that UKIP denied the consevatives 25 seats which is a pretty silly claim and a poor excuse to try and big up was an absolutely disastrous showing in the polls.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They do not matter in UK Politics. End of.

As we have said before, under FPTP no party matters apart from the Conservative Party and Labour Party and once in a lifetime, the Liberal Democrats. The system is fixed against both smaller parties and the Conservative Party in favour of the Labour Party and thats why many are wishing that Nick Clegg can bring about the change (proportional representation) that this country needs. How is it right that if I vote any other party in my area other than the winning party (Labour) that my vote does not count? - thats not fairness.

UKIP did cost the Conservative Party the election and if UKIP did not exist then another party similar to UKIP would be there and that would have also of cost the Cameron-Conservatives the election. Its you vs the figures provided & political commentators just so you can prove some party political point. I will refer as I always do to the comments on many Conservative newspapapers to see the affect UKIP is having on the Conservatives and theres no doubt in my mind that if the election hadn't been so close, then the UKIP vote would of been well over the one million mark.

[Bun]

evidence to suggest otherwise? oh god you sound desperate. this election must have been a big blow to you eh? and yes, i know all about the 1980s so don't patronise me, kiddo.

[-:Undertaker:-]

evidence to suggest otherwise? oh god you sound desperate. this election must have been a big blow to you eh? and yes, i know all about the 1980s so don't patronise me, kiddo.

It was a good result really, although disappointing that we did not pick Buckingham up where the vote was split between the opposition. As now proven by your post, you cant actually find anything to suggest that the Tories didnt lose the election/come much shorter of a parliamentary majority because of UKIP in the face of the numerous articles which have provided figures on the topic. If you know all about the 1980s then you should also see how the same is occuring now to the Conservative Party where its core vote is being hammered away by UKIP.

On one hand we have two Labour supporters on here saying 'nonono it wasnt UKIP' just because they'll naturally oppose anything to do with UKIP and on the other hand we have conservative newspapers saying that UKIP did prevent a Conservative Party win, backed up with polling figures in various seats - whose argument holds more water?

[Catzsy]

As we have said before, under FPTP no party matters apart from the Conservative Party and Labour Party and once in a lifetime, the Liberal Democrats. The system is fixed against both smaller parties and the Conservative Party in favour of the Labour Party and thats why many are wishing that Nick Clegg can bring about the change (proportional representation) that this country needs. How is it right that if I vote any other party in my area other than the winning party (Labour) that my vote does not count? - thats not fairness.

UKIP did cost the Conservative Party the election and if UKIP did not exist then another party similar to UKIP would be there and that would have also of cost the Cameron-Conservatives the election. Its you vs the figures provided & political commentators just so you can prove some party political point. I will refer as I always do to the comments on many Conservative newspapapers to see the affect UKIP is having on the Conservatives and theres no doubt in my mind that if the election hadn't been so close, then the UKIP vote would of been well over the one million mark.

No Political point to be made - you made the thread. Unfortunately they are just a minor party with minor support whose chances have been vastly overated particularly on this forum. The silent majority are not behind them as has been claimed so there is really nothing more to be said. All the candidates looked like James Bond lookalikes to me from the old films I actually watched every minute of the election so I knew what the figures were. They achieved on average between 900 and 1400 and mostly lost their deposits.

[Hitman]

I think UKIP did well. An increase in votes (albeit small, but an increase nonetheless). Under PR they'd of got 20 seats. They came 4th in regards to overall votes. Nearly one million votes. That's 1 in 32 voters voted UKIP - not a huge amount but not insignificant either.

[-:Undertaker:-]

No Political point to be made - you made the thread. Unfortunately they are just a minor party with minor support whose chances have been vastly overated particularly on this forum. The silent majority are not behind them as has been claimed so there is really nothing more to be said. All the candidates looked like James Bond lookalikes to me from the old films

In a FPTP system they will remain a minor party (although still the 4th largest in the UK), nobody is pretending they have the same throw as the Labour or Conservative Party. However under a proportional representation system they could very well form a government with the Conservatives (provided this system comes in) which this article shows up very well; http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ed...e-their-moment

Because whether you like it or not, the vast majority of the British public want more prisons, harsher sentences, withdrawal from the European Union and once the FPTP system has been removed you will find people becoming much more fluid in their voting, abandoning tribal politics and thats when we have real change on both sides of the political spectrum.

[Catzsy]

In a FPTP system they will remain a minor party (although still the 4th largest in the UK), nobody is pretending they have the same throw as the Labour or Conservative Party. However under a proportional representation system they could very well form a government with the Conservatives (provided this system comes in) which this article shows up very well; http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ed...e-their-moment

Because whether you like it or not, the vast majority of the British public want more prisons, harsher sentences, withdrawal from the European Union and once the FPTP system has been removed you will find people becoming much more fluid in their voting, abandoning tribal politics and thats when we have real change on both sides of the political spectrum.

How do you work out they are the 4th largest party in the UK? The only parties behind them were the nutters and the Raving Monster loony party as far as I could see in any constitunency. Sorry if the vast majority of people had wanted what you said then they would have voted for them. That's democracy.