Is it right for countries to ban the Islamic burqa? [ENDS 01/08/2010]

[alexxxxx]

Britain is not a successful multi-cultural country anymore - we now have racial ghettos with people who cannot even speak the mother tongue of this country. The entire thing is a sham and its PC speak to pretend otherwise that everything is fine and dandy. If immigration continues as it is now we will have racial riots within the next few decades and Enoch will be proved right as what happened in France.

I think this must affect a very small minority of areas. Where I live there are some areas with more asians or black people living there than the average, generally the poorer areas, but it isn't like if youre white you'll get stabbed or harassed going there. In france the riots are not riots between races but were against the police or in protest of discrimination - most riots are against the police or the establishment because of frankly the dreadful areas and poverty they live in.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The multi-cultural project pretty much spanned out of encouraged migration from the Commonwealth and the West Indies after World War II. It is still a successful multi-cultural society, Enoch spoke of mass riots etc and there has so far only been one in Bradford and a few tussles in Birmingham in that 3 or 4 decades. Enoch is wrong. You vastly exaggerate the ghetto and language barrier, it may well be a sign of things to come but it is not a problem at the moment.

But in principal I do agree with you on anti-discrimination laws, personally I think people should be able to wear what they like down the street and businesses are entitled to ban things providing they do it fairly, for example if they ban burqas they must also ban helmets, balaclavas etc.

It worked back then. Those people loved Great Britain and settled amongst the people - not in small secular groups as it occuring now in the modern day. Enoch Powell warned of racial ghettos and growing resentment amongst the white poor working class, well now you can see that in various areas where people belong to groups of each nationality/colour and in some areas (such as Southhall). We have all read the stories of teachers who cannot even teach anymore because their school now has kids who all speak differing languages.

It is not a problem at the moment no, and he warned it would become as you admit yourself. So why are we (or more so our politicians) waiting for it to happen?

[Camy]

My immediate response is yes - it's covering your face and it's a security risk. But then it becomes a question of where you draw the line and then whether balaclavas should be banned too. I think it's absolutely stupid that you can be driving down a road and see someone fully covered - you don't know what they are like or who they are. If it goes through that burquas are allowed, then it's just advertising a whole new way of hiding oneself.

Honestly, the UK Government is too scared of people calling them racist to ban this. The only balls they have is Ed and that's a waste of space too. The UK is trying so hard to be equal to everyone that they will eventually fall on their backs and end up being racist to themselves. Pathetic.

If burqas were banned in buildings (very much like smoking) then it would be getting there. But how would it be if you were mugged by someone wearing one in the street? Would you be so quick to say "they're ok to cover their face" then?

I agree with most of what you have to say, but @ the bit in bold: when do you ever see anyone wearing a balaclava? I've literally never seen anyone wearing one in my entire life, I've only ever seen burqas.

I think that they should be banned for several reasons:

-Security.
It's just common sense really, if any type of crime occurs involving someone wearing a burqa, it will be next to impossible to identify them.
-Oppression of women.
It's a symbol of the oppression of women is it not? Forgive me if I'm wrong on this point, but it's what I was lead to believe, and I also was lead to believe that women and men were meant to be equal in British society, so therefore its got to go.
-Multiculturalism.
In my opinion, it just doesn't work. It's too hard trying to cater for each different religion or race, and when you start giving exceptions to one group or the other it's just going to fall to pieces.
Everyone else has to keep their face uncovered, so should Muslim women, and if they aren't happy with it, they can go home?
Britain is mainly a Christian country, so anyone who wants to live here, should live by our laws and regulations. If they aren't happy with it, they should go somewhere else.

[alexxxxx]

It worked back then. Those people loved Great Britain and settled amongst the people - not in small secular groups as it occuring now in the modern day. Enoch Powell warned of racial ghettos and growing resentment amongst the white poor working class, well now you can see that in various areas where people belong to groups of each nationality/colour and in some areas (such as Southhall). We have all read the stories of teachers who cannot even teach anymore because their school now has kids who all speak differing languages.

It is not a problem at the moment no, and he warned it would become as you admit yourself. So why are we (or more so our politicians) waiting for it to happen?

you can't force different races to live where you want them to live (although singapore does this to get a 'healthy mix'). all the 'problem' areas are where old industries were (and where people from the commonwealth were brought in the 50s/60s to work there - real open door immigration) and no other fairly low-skilled industries replaced them when they closed in the 70s and 80s. in france the riots are with white people too and thats whats happened in the past in britain too.

[Samantha]

My response is no.
There should be NO dress code implimented on a whole country.
It's just like from a few weeks/months before which I read that this girl was banished from the School trip because she wouldnt dress like a muslim. Why should she dress differently to suit another countries dress sense and rules. The Burka shouldnt be banned as everyone should have a right to what they wear.

[Hitman]

is it common sense though? you are giving away rights to the government telling you what you can and cannot do. what would you say if they started to ban styles of music because of the threat of violence associated with it (ie rap/grime)? then films? then journals? newspapers, because they report things that would 'de-stabalise' the country? the web to do with 'protecting the country'?

Yes, it is common sense. The Government does that anyway, we are not truly free, there are loads of restrictions on what we can do - and with good reason too. Banning music is difficult - how would you enforce it? You really couldn't. You can enforce the banning of the burka. I do not doubt for a moment that the Government, or security/intelligence services restrict sensitive data from getting out... the world isn't as nice and friendly as it may seem. I guess it depends where and how you were bought up to realise this.

[RedStratocas]

and i swear i haven't seen your username round here in a long time.

well there was like a 6 month gap of me not posting anything last year lol but ive been back for a little bit i still dont post too much though. ive had a terrible throat infection for the past week so ive just been in bed so i think ive been posting more recently haha.

But we can see the people's face - we can identify them instantly. With a burka you cannot. It is common sense to put security before clothing 'rights' - and we're not singling out burkas, if there was a ban on the burka then there should also be a ban on balaclavas and any other garment that covers your face (expect for bike helmets when on a bike).

sorry for quoting an american but he said it best:

Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither

i still dont understand the "we can see people's faces" argument. whats that even matter? if you're a complete stranger to the person, what difference does it make whether or not you can see what their face looks like? if you think about it, if someone in a burqa were to mug someone, they'd be much easier to catch than someone who dresses more normally, since theyd stick out like a sore thumb. like i was saying, with security issues, OBVIOUSLY they should abide by the same laws as other pieces of clothing, but someone walking down the street in a burqa is their human right and doesnt pose any more of a security risk than someone in jeans and a t-shirt.

[Hitman]

well there was like a 6 month gap of me not posting anything last year lol but ive been back for a little bit i still dont post too much though. ive had a terrible throat infection for the past week so ive just been in bed so i think ive been posting more recently haha.



sorry for quoting an american but he said it best:



i still dont understand the "we can see people's faces" argument. whats that even matter? if you're a complete stranger to the person, what difference does it make whether or not you can see what their face looks like? if you think about it, if someone in a burqa were to mug someone, they'd be much easier to catch than someone who dresses more normally, since theyd stick out like a sore thumb. like i was saying, with security issues, OBVIOUSLY they should abide by the same laws as other pieces of clothing, but someone walking down the street in a burqa is their human right and doesnt pose any more of a security risk than someone in jeans and a t-shirt.

In that instance it'd be easier to find them, however you should see where I live. There are many people here wearing burkas... they are not so uncommon here and thus would be harder to find. I mean, sure they'd be easy to find in a crowd full of people dressing normally, but in a crowd of people where there are also other burka wearers then it's not so easy. Secondly, you probably didn't hear about it but some man dressed in a burka and tried to enter a jewellers. The owners buzzed him in, afterall he was a religious woman in a burka, right? Not so, as soon as he opened the door a load of men (in balaclavas I believe) barged in and ransacked the place. Then there's the extremist who tried to blow himself up, failed and tried to escape by wearing a burka as somebody mentioned before.

We all abide by laws and restrictions on what we can do, so none of us are truly free - and if we were truly free would we enjoy it? We'd be allowed to beat the **** out of somebody for no good reason, we could rape and murder without consequences... I think I'll stick to what we have now, thanks.

[alexxxxx]

Yes, it is common sense. The Government does that anyway, we are not truly free, there are loads of restrictions on what we can do - and with good reason too. Banning music is difficult - how would you enforce it? You really couldn't. You can enforce the banning of the burka. I do not doubt for a moment that the Government, or security/intelligence services restrict sensitive data from getting out... the world isn't as nice and friendly as it may seem. I guess it depends where and how you were bought up to realise this.

because my parents don't influence stupid ideas on me about how they think 'society' should be, or about immigrants and i've been able to make up my own view on the world without any sort of influence. my parents have only ever spoken about politics to me since i was 18. they don't buy newspapers apart from on sundays - where they get the fairly centrist times (compared to other papers).

it's true that we aren't as "free" as we could be, but you think more taking away civil liberties is a good way of going about it which is some twisted thinking in my book.

[Hitman]

because my parents don't influence stupid ideas on me about how they think 'society' should be, or about immigrants and i've been able to make up my own view on the world without any sort of influence. my parents have only ever spoken about politics to me since i was 18. they don't buy newspapers apart from on sundays - where they get the fairly centrist times (compared to other papers).

it's true that we aren't as "free" as we could be, but you think more taking away civil liberties is a good way of going about it which is some twisted thinking in my book.

Neither do mine, what I meant by that is if you're in a place where there's no crime or no foreigners then you will have a very different view or opinion to somebody who has.

Providing they make us safer yes. If it's for no reason then no, it's pointless but I've stated the reason and in my book it should be banned - and the majority agree.

Anywho I am no longer participating, not that it matters because there's not a huge amount more to debate. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx