Transsexual's fight for implants lands taxpayer with £18,000 bill

[Wig44.]

No, I can't believe anyone thinks this peron should get any surgery on the NHS. Treat the psychological problems (depression, suicidal thoughts) with psychology, not surgery.

I don't think comparisons can be drawn between homosexuality and trassexualism because they are completely different things. Homosexuals have been shown to be exactly the same as heterosexuals, no hormonal differences or structural differences in the brain etc. Transsexuals have already been found to have some diferences. For example; http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034.

[Catzsy]

No, I can't believe anyone thinks this peron should get any surgery on the NHS. Treat the psychological problems (depression, suicidal thoughts) with psychology, not surgery.

I don't think comparisons can be drawn between homosexuality and trassexualism because they are completely different things. Homosexuals have been shown to be exactly the same as heterosexuals, no hormonal differences or structural differences in the brain etc. Transsexuals have already been found to have some diferences. For example; http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034.

The article you posted actually indicates that there are chemical differences so I don't get your argument that they should not be allowed surgery? Treating them for depression etc costs money too so maybe allowing them the surgery is going to be more cost effective in the long run?

[HotelUser]

No, I can't believe anyone thinks this peron should get any surgery on the NHS. Treat the psychological problems (depression, suicidal thoughts) with psychology, not surgery.

I don't think comparisons can be drawn between homosexuality and trassexualism because they are completely different things. Homosexuals have been shown to be exactly the same as heterosexuals, no hormonal differences or structural differences in the brain etc. Transsexuals have already been found to have some diferences. For example; http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034.

Or we can take advantage of one of the extremely rare cases where money can make you happy and just give them what will change their life forever.

[Mrs.McCall]

I agree with the psycological thing though. Someone with psychological problems shouldn't be given irreversable surgery. They should undergo strict vetting which I am sure was in place here.

[Catzsy]

I agree with the psycological thing though. Someone with psychological problems shouldn't be given irreversable surgery. They should undergo strict vetting which I am sure was in place here.

They do go through long and arduous periods of vetting and psychological tests to make sure it is the best course of action for them. It can take years.

[Mrs.McCall]

I think it's sad that they go through it but I still think it should be paid for privately and I'd say that for anything cosmetic.

Here's one for you. How about women who have had a masectomy (breast removed) due to breast cancer? Should they get free reconstructive surgery on the NHS? Or how about somebody who had their nose broken and it becomes mis-shapen?

[Catzsy]

I think it's sad that they go through it but I still think it should be paid for privately and I'd say that for anything cosmetic.

Here's one for you. How about women who have had a masectomy (breast removed) due to breast cancer? Should they get free reconstructive surgery on the NHS? Or how about somebody who had their nose broken and it becomes mis-shapen?

Yes I think both should be paid for. If somebody loses a leg they get an artificial one. Nobosy would complain about that. Also a mishapen can cause problems with breathing etc.

[Mrs.McCall]

It's interesting how to decide. I guess that's what Ethics teams are for! Yeah, mishapen noses can be a pain. I had a deviated septum and couldn't breathe well but NHS refused to pay so had to go private.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Okay, lets correct your use of the word chemical here.

There is a homosexual male who sees another male and is sexually aroused. What's happening here:

Their inferior temporal cortex, orbitofrontal cortex, cingulate cortex, right insula and caudate nucleus parts of the brain all exhibit increased activity, the bloodflow to the male's sexual parts increase and thus they are aroused.

If it's as black and white chemical as you say then every male would experience the exact same symptoms and degrees of arousal when they're exposed to the same sexual scenery or thoughts.

However this is not true. You visualize or think of sexual things, and then to the degree of attractiveness determined SUBJECTIVELY on a per person basis you are aroused to different degrees.

You're not simply mixing carbon and nitrogen to get cyanide here. There are MANY MANY MANY subjective feelings at play before hand, even without the person realizing it.

Saying it's purely chemical to support your stance is baseless because it just simply isn't a cut and dry chemical thing, there ARE subjective elements at play and you can't argue that simply due to the fact that different people are just aroused by different things.

It is a chemical reaction mainly which thus influences other areas of your person, transsexuality on the other hand is not influenced at all by chemicals only by thought and the idea that 'I am a man trapped in a womans body' or vice versa. Healthcare should not be influenced by thought/mental issues, it should be based on reality.

The thought that you are the opposite sex is not medical reality, its fantasy/wishful thinking.

Clearly she has issues based on the fact she feels trapped and I believe these should be dealt with first. I think anybody who may have psychological issues should not be allowed plastic surgery such as Heidi Montag or even Michael Jackson but that's a debate for another day

The difference is that those people paid for it themselves, and cosmestic surgery is rather different to taking hormones and changing organs around in order to imitate the opposite sex; personally I find that kind of surgery deeply distasteful.

I do agree with you 100%. The argument you're saying is that trans people shouldn't be allowed sex change ops on the NHS. Completely agree, the NHS doesn't have the funding to carry out such requests.

I am, however, worried about the 'facts' you base your argument on. I feel that you've used this as an opportunity to express views that represent the LGBT community in a negative way. Now, you may be part of that community but that doesn't give you a free pass to say damaging things such as homosexuality being chemical because that opens the floor for homophobes (perhaps not yourself) to use that argument against people.

But, as I say, the crux of this thread is debate whether or not the NHS should fund these operations and I think no.

Whether I represent or say things that conflict with the idea of an LGBT 'community' is irrelevent, the idea that because you are gay means you have to have militant gay stances on every issue or question the right of speech of those who don't agree with homosexuality/transsexualism is a strand of militantism.

I for one don't agree (on a personal level) with gay marriage or civil partnerships as I feel marriage is the bedrock of the family, I also do not agree with gay adoption and thus wouldn't do it myself. On the other hand (with the marriage issue) I also respect the idea that thats my choice and the choice should be open to those who do want to get married but it should also be there for those who don't wish to perform such ceremonies (ie the Church).

But back to the transseuxal issue as thats more of a diversion; I don't agree with transsexualism, but also respect the right that if somebody should want to carry this out to their body they should have every right to do so - however not at the expense of the taxpayer especially at a time when cancer drugs are being denied to cancer patients who are in real need of help.

That is my issue with this.

That's an entirely different situation - you seem to be confusing transexualism with illogical fashion ideas. This person does not simply want to look like a woman because they like how women look, they are in all mental and chemical aspects a woman. That aside, this is not an £18000 surgery as suggested, it's an £8000 one that's ended up costing more because the NHS illegally backed out of completing the course of treatment, and considering there are rather a lot of people paying a lot of tax in this country I can't see how you can complain at £8000 being used to help someone be happy enough in themselves to not be trying to commit suicide - that is saving a life, no matter what you think of the life being saved

I agree with the NHS point, it was wrong of them to do it in the first place. However the second part, you are basically giving into blackmail - if somebody is willing to take their life then thats a choice and not a condition.

There is no aspect of 'saving a life' as the life is not in danger, unless of course he wishes to take it himself.

As above, it's quite clearly not just an aesthetic problem if it affects her to the point of attempting suicide. You not understanding a medical problem doesn't make it not one

Its a mental problem yes, he feels himself to be a woman when in reality he is not. I gave the Jesus Christ example before, some people genuinely believe they are the son of god - however you'd quite rightly dismiss them as nuts. This is the same thing, just for idealogical purposes we're stampeided into pretending transsexualism is some sort of disease.

Not sure if you're aware of this Dan but attraction doesn't always hand in hand with erections, even in your teens

Homosexuality is chemical, transsexualism is not - one is the chemical reaction of the body, the other is a thought.

That is no evidence at all - it is your opinion which is not backed up by any valid sources.

The only 'evidence' you provided before was a sob-site which pretends or makes out that transsexualism is some form of disease rather than what it is in reality, a mental thought where the subject actually thinks they are the opposite sex. They may be similar to the opposite sex yes in personality just as many gay guys are - but thats called being feminine as its part of your personality.

Just because suicide is a choice doesn't mean that their illness that lead's them to want to commit suicide should not be dealt with in a sympathetic manner. You will be telling me next there is no such thing as mental illness and people should get a grip. The last two paragraphs are just errant nonsense. How does somebody with paranoid delusions of thinking they are Jesus Christ have anything to do with the suffering caused to a person who feels they are a woman in a man's body? Are you saying they are paranoid schizophrenics? Some Gay people think they are straight? Maybe they are bi - I don't know but where does that come from unless they are in the closet voluntarily and if so that is their choice.

It-is-not-an-illness!

If it is an illnesss, it is only a mental illness - which needs to be treated, not by giving into this 'illness'. You are pretending that it is some sort of chemical illness like a real disease, it is not. It is merely a thought which goes to the extreme.

As for the Jesus Christ part, well whats the difference? they believe they are Jesus Christ just as transsexuals believe they are the opposite sex when in reality they are not; (in the case of a male) they have male DNA, male genes, male hormones and male sex organs and always will be male no matter how many drugs/hormones they pump into themselves to satisfy their mental imagination that they are somehow something different. It would be like myself believing I don't have black hair when I do and I always will have as its in my gene codes.

As for the gay issue, yes i'm telling you - many people believe 100% they are straight until it finally dawns on them that they are anything but, you can search numerous teen forums for that particular case.

The same applies to transsexualism, its a mental thought - not reality.

Yes I think both should be paid for. If somebody loses a leg they get an artificial one. Nobosy would complain about that. Also a mishapen can cause problems with breathing etc.

Yes but that is reality Rosie, if I lose my leg that is reality - transsexualism on the other hand is in the mind, it is not real.

[HotelUser]

It is a chemical reaction mainly which thus influences other areas of your person, transsexuality on the other hand is not influenced at all by chemicals only by thought and the idea that 'I am a man trapped in a womans body' or vice versa. Healthcare should not be influenced by thought/mental issues, it should be based on reality.

The thought that you are the opposite sex is not medical reality, its fantasy/wishful thinking.

Straight relationship arousement: caused by subjective thoughts which trigger hormonal reaction (please see how brain works above)

Gay relationship arousement: caused by subjective thoughts which trigger hormonal reaction (please see how brain works above)

Transgendered relationship arousement: caused by subjective thoughts which trigger hormonal reaction (please see how brain works above)