University students lack focus?

[Jin]

I teach/assist a few lectures to university students, usually it is only < 200 students. Yesterday I did my first class of 300 - 400 in one of the largest theatres we have on our campus however kids in the rear rows seemed to be more interested in talking crap than listening.

Arguably it could be that the lecture was boring them but I am doubtful of it as I like to be a little bit mental in lectures to keep them engaged having been in lectures where I have actually struggled to stay awake. This particular lecture was about a part of their assignment (worth 30%) and I wanted to make sure that people were on the right track and were thinking the right way.

It was a first year class but I felt that about 20% of that lecture room have just come to university for a laugh and not because they are really there to study. Usually with smaller classes I throw people out after 3 warnings (to the whole lecture not to the individual) and that usually solves things within the first 15 mins.

But I couldn't throw out 80 students that would be ridiculous if that many students failed the entire year because of this module.

I am honest with students that I work with, I tell them straight that I am an undergraduate, I tell them that I won't know the answer to every question (but I will point them to somewhere or someone that does), I tell them my honest experience of university and how to get the best out of it. But even talking to other lecturers who have the same problems I can't think of a reason why.

So here are my questions to you,

1. Do you think University students are really there because they want to study or because they are pushed to do it or want to experience the typical lifestyle?
2. Do you think University's have become more and more lenient with their admissions?
3. Does your University suffer from similar problems with students who do not want to learn?
4. Would you have a problem with an undergraduate who held revision sessions, assisted in lectures and even gave lectures even if they were knowledgeable and were vouched by the faculty head?
5. Do you think the tuition fee increase will filter those who are wasting money and time at university from those who are serious about learning?

[Inseriousity.]

I'm not sure about every university but in my uni, I was told that first year doesn't count towards the degree, it's all about preparation for the next two years. That could be a reason why first years are less focused as they think they don't really have to concentrate now. Another reason is I think first year is about bringing everyone up to speed, not sure if it's the same with your course but everyone's at different levels and normally in my lectures when they're talking about something that someone already knows, they'll switch off and doodle... or talk. (e.g. there was a lesson on Aristotle but apparently this guy had already covered Aristotle in depth during his A levels so he just kept talking to his friend throughout the whole thing).

Do you think University students are really there because they want to study or because they are pushed to do it or want to experience the typical lifestyle?
I think the majority of them there want to learn and better themselves but there's a small minority who want the social experience rather than the academic.

Do you think University's have become more and more lenient with their admissions?
Hmm not sure. I don't think they have. There's massive competition for uni places nowadays. The top unis are definitely not lenient as they can afford not to. The lower-ranking unis are likely to be more lenient (not saying your uni is a bottom-of-the-table uni )

Does your University suffer from similar problems with students who do not want to learn?
In general, I think the majority think "I'm paying 3k+, I need to get the best value for money as possible"

Would you have a problem with an undergraduate who held revision sessions, assisted in lectures and even gave lectures even if they were knowledgeable and were vouched by the faculty head?
No. I'd rather have someone with less knowledge but can teach compared to someone with lots of knowledge but doesn't know how to teach it.

Do you think the tuition fee increase will filter those who are wasting money and time at university from those who are serious about learning?
Possibly but I honestly doubt it.

[Barmi]

Q: Do you think University students are really there because they want to study or because they are pushed to do it or want to experience the typical lifestyle?
A: It depends on the institution. At mine it's probably a combination of the above, but if the student wasn't genuinely interested in the subject then he wouldn't get past interview.

Q: Do you think University's have become more and more lenient with their admissions?
A: Again, it depends on the university. It's certainly not the case with the more competitive institutions.

Q: Does your University suffer from similar problems with students who do not want to learn?
A: No. Everyone here strikes the balance right between work and play. Only an idiot would go to university if he didn't want to learn (not to mention how rude it is to talk over an academic), and the more competitive universities generally don't have idiots.

Q: Would you have a problem with an undergraduate who held revision sessions, assisted in lectures and even gave lectures even if they were knowledgeable and were vouched by the faculty head?
A: Without doubt I would. To be lectured and supervised by a world class academic in one paper but an undergrad in another? That is not what I expect and thankfully nobody I know is put in that situation. My lecturers are organised by the Faculty and my supervisors by my Director of Studies; all teaching is done by fellows with the necessary experience and academic background. Having undergrads undertaking any teaching just tells me a faculty is understaffed.

Q: Do you think the tuition fee increase will filter those who are wasting money and time at university from those who are serious about learning?
A: I hope so, but probably not. University applications have been on the rise for many years even after tuition fees were introduced, and given how most places are oversubscribed anyway I don't think think there will be a problem with filling spaces.

Edit: I don't mean any of the above to cause you any offence and I'm sure you have an excellent grasp of the content you're lecturing on. I just worry that an institution isn't managing its resources particularly efficiently if it has to delegate teaching to undergraduates as opposed to the leading academics and textbook writers.

[RandomManJay]

1. Do you think University students are really there because they want to study or because they are pushed to do it or want to experience the typical lifestyle?
Personally, I came to university to study, but I do know quite a few people here who have came because they really didn't have a choice, and of course those who just came for the lifestyle. It's a mixture really.

2. Do you think University's have become more and more lenient with their admissions?
I would most likely say yes, but it will depend on which universities you look at. I know that some tend to contact other universities during the selection process and quietly enquire about who has applied where. Such as a university asking its neighouring university or a university at the same level (in terms of application) if any of their applicants have applied there, and then work out a way of keeping some and dropping others that the other university will take. This is all completely "hush! hush!" of course since its illegal, and much more difficult now that most universities only recieve electronic applications.

3. Does your University suffer from similar problems with students who do not want to learn?
During the first year definately, with some stragglers in the second year and next to none in the third. There are quite a few who only come for the experience of going, like the nightlife etc. and then buggar off after their first year. I can remember quite a few on my course who by the second year didn't understand the most basic things on our course, and took extreme offense when the lecturer stated that she couldn't look at coursework drafts, even though its policy and they say it every year. Only one seemed to progress into their third year, and she dropped out after the first week when she realised she had to do essays which were 3000 words long.

I do think that every university would have this problem to some degree. I can imagine Oxford or Cambridge might not have such an issue as compared to say Manchester Metropolitan or York St John (only examples ).

4. Would you have a problem with an undergraduate who held revision sessions, assisted in lectures and even gave lectures even if they were knowledgeable and were vouched by the faculty head?
It depends on how qualified they are. My university doesn't allow people under PhD level to give lectures with PhD students only being allowed to teach in seminars. I wouldn't really have a problem with revision sessions, provided they were knowledgable. But actually taking a lecture I would disagree with, as a degree is only really the first step into higher education, and the people they would be teaching along side have spent years in the field obtaining Master degrees, Doctorates and PhDs, to which they have earned the right and have certification that they understand what they're actually talking about. It a person intends to stand in front of a lecture who hasn't even got a degree equivalent to the one they're trying to teach, then they don't belong there.

5. Do you think the tuition fee increase will filter those who are wasting money and time at university from those who are serious about learning?
I think it would go one further than that and stop people who actually want to go for an education from going. Given the economy I can see why they're increasing them, but they're shrugging everything onto a demographic which is by in large a young demographic, which have very little experience given they've been mostly in compulsory education most of their lives. There is already worry and concern about post graduate jobs, and nearly every university tries to boast its employment rating for those straight out. But I can't blame people who don't want to come to university with the possibility that they may be several thousand pounds in debt (with loans etc.) only to come out it and not being to to get a job that will adequetly support them.

[Jin]

Interesting ideas,

Just want to clarify I only do 2 lectures a week the rest are workshops.

Also I do not decide the lecture content that is already prefabricated for me along with the slides or necessary content I merely talk them through it and answer any questions I can or I get them to actually think for once in their life.

Come to think about it my lectures are less lectures than they are workshops.

[Hecktix]

I think this is quite common in the universities that require lower entry requirements, I know my university doesn't tolerate this stuff, there were a group of about 15 students on our course who earlier in the year simply talked through every single lecture, following a series of complaints by a significant amount of other students these 15 students were actually removed from our course.

So I guess it depends on how strict the department is and how strict the uni is I guess, our uni is particularly good for my course and there are a lot of applicants for relatively small places (we are quite a small university) and they remind us pretty much weekly that if we aren't here to get on with the work then we are welcome to leave.

[N!ck]

Doesn't really sound anything like my lectures. People may play about with their phones every so often or whisper the odd word to the person next to them, but generally they're completely silent. If there was a conversation going on it would be pretty noticeable and the lecturer would put a stop to it straight away. Generally my lecturers have this sort of banter about them which would definitely change the whole feel of the lecture if it was run by someone less experienced.

1. Do you think University students are really there because they want to study or because they are pushed to do it or want to experience the typical lifestyle?

Yep, they want to be there.

2. Do you think University's have become more and more lenient with their admissions?

Not on my course.

3. Does your University suffer from similar problems with students who do not want to learn?

Not really. There is a general lack of focus and cbaness with a lot of students, but we just try to push through and get on with it.

4. Would you have a problem with an undergraduate who held revision sessions, assisted in lectures and even gave lectures even if they were knowledgeable and were vouched by the faculty head?

If they knew what they were doing then no. But generally my lecturers are all 40+ and some a lot older still. We have postgrads demonstrating in labs and workshops who are generally excellent and you learn to avoid the rubbish ones quickly.

5. Do you think the tuition fee increase will filter those who are wasting money and time at university from those who are serious about learning?

Hopefully, but there isn't any of these on my course thankfully. A few that couldn't hack it dropped out towards the start of first year.

[AgnesIO]

I teach/assist a few lectures to university students, usually it is only < 200 students. Yesterday I did my first class of 300 - 400 in one of the largest theatres we have on our campus however kids in the rear rows seemed to be more interested in talking crap than listening.

Arguably it could be that the lecture was boring them but I am doubtful of it as I like to be a little bit mental in lectures to keep them engaged having been in lectures where I have actually struggled to stay awake. This particular lecture was about a part of their assignment (worth 30%) and I wanted to make sure that people were on the right track and were thinking the right way.

It was a first year class but I felt that about 20% of that lecture room have just come to university for a laugh and not because they are really there to study. Usually with smaller classes I throw people out after 3 warnings (to the whole lecture not to the individual) and that usually solves things within the first 15 mins.

But I couldn't throw out 80 students that would be ridiculous if that many students failed the entire year because of this module.

I am honest with students that I work with, I tell them straight that I am an undergraduate, I tell them that I won't know the answer to every question (but I will point them to somewhere or someone that does), I tell them my honest experience of university and how to get the best out of it. But even talking to other lecturers who have the same problems I can't think of a reason why.

So here are my questions to you,

1. Do you think University students are really there because they want to study or because they are pushed to do it or want to experience the typical lifestyle?
2. Do you think University's have become more and more lenient with their admissions?
3. Does your University suffer from similar problems with students who do not want to learn?
4. Would you have a problem with an undergraduate who held revision sessions, assisted in lectures and even gave lectures even if they were knowledgeable and were vouched by the faculty head?
5. Do you think the tuition fee increase will filter those who are wasting money and time at university from those who are serious about learning?

1) I think a lot of people DO go to university for the experience, and obviously the nights out etc. I know some people who have gone, because their friends went - so they realised none of their friends would be at home. However, I believe the majority do really want to get a degree out of it, and be successful.
2) I think this is a difficult question to answer. There are more and more courses at university, which as far as I am concerned simply encourages idiot. For example the infamous "Harry Potter Studies", not to mention the "Studies of David and Victoria Beckham".
3) N/A, I am yet to go
4) If the undergraduate was interesting and was a good speaker I would be fine with this - infact someone who can relate to the student is better than a man who hasn't been a student for 30 years in my opinion.
5) I think the rise in tuition fees will HELP the situation, however I believe - because of the student loans - many will still go for the experience, as although you will get in huge debt, it will still not be too bad for you - considering the low payments on student loans. Of course, I could be wrong.

Honestly Jin, I think you are bloody brave to stand in front of 400 people in a lecture hall to talk, keep going mate - certainly a good one for the CV in the future too!