The future of the NHS, your opinions.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't understand? Do you mean if the people "caused" their own HIV?

By the HIV example I mean this - you state that obese people cause their own health issues are the NHS should not pay for this (even though the whole point of the NHS is free healthcare to all, on demand) - ok fair point. But why is this same attitude not applied to those who contract HIV whereas it is applied to smokers and obese people who caused their own health problems due to the risks they knowingly took.

Sex is exactly the same in the vast majority of cases of HIV, which I will go onto below.

He's assuming each time you have sex you carry an HIV tester kit to see if your sexual partner or one night stand has HIV I think he's focusing on the people who have HIV and know it, but refuse to protect others through some form self-loathing and like to spread it, and forgets that people without it should not be expected to be paranoid of life and have everyone they come in contact with check themselves, and I am also assuming he thinks obesity hits you one day when you least expect it. One day 9 stone, the next 19 stone

If you have unprotected sex, anal sex, sex with multiple partners or even sex with a condom/protection (which is not 100% guranteed) then that is the same as bringing it upon yourself just as obesity and smoking are classed as (the logic of lxce and the anti-smoking lobby, not mine). There are a few cases where yes, it can be considerd not brought upon ones self; an example of a couple who have been together for years, one patner cheats and contracts HIV and then passes onto the other) however whether its politically fashionable to say this or not - HIV is in the same league as smoking and unhealthy eating if you want to block people from treatment for smoking, eating in an unhealthy manner or contracting sexual diseases.

Yet they are never classed as on the same line as one another, why is this?

[GommeInc]

Yet they are never classed as on the same line as one another, why is this?

Possibly because sex is natural. Obesity is mostly unnatural, it's only a concern when it's something someone cannot avoid like ligament problems in their legs (which my brother has). Smoking is pointless so don't get me started on that, and is done for "leisure" and nothing else, there are no benefits like a baby at the end of it or deep, natural sexy urges. I can see where there could be differences.

Some people do need to keep their trousers up though. If you're having sex like a rabbit with anything with a pulse then you deserve it if you do not take the time to think about the risks, and having sex with people knowing this is pretty disgusting if you're happy spreading it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Possibly because sex is natural. Obesity is mostly unnatural, it's only a concern when it's something someone cannot avoid like ligament problems in their legs (which my brother has). Smoking is pointless so don't get me started on that, and is done for "leisure" and nothing else, there are no benefits like a baby at the end of it or deep, natural sexy urges. I can see where there could be differences.

As is eating (being natural), some for example have better metabolisms than others - afterall both over-eating and sex are both urges. If you have sex in a scenario as I described above, you are knowingly putting yourself at risk from HIV/other diseases when you need not to, just as smoking and unhealthy eating put you in the same position and the same applies to teenage girls who become pregnant. We all have independent thought (or so I would like to think) and we can use them and use our own judgement whilst being aware of the risks - don't treat certain types in a differing way just because its fashionable to.

Smokers put themselves at risk, as do obese people as do people having sex (also at those having anal sex [protected or unprotected] which is far more dangerous) - all know the risks involved, so why are all not treated the same in these debates when it comes down to what the NHS should or shouldn't treat?

[alexxxxx]

privatisation of the NHS will prove to be a disaster like almost every other privatisation scheme - higher costs for everyone, benefiting the monopolist owners, government but not the tax payers (or even worse insurance payers)...

[Technologic]

It's not thought because being fat nothing good comes out of it for the person, except for maybe being happy but i don't know if you truly can be with that disability, whereas a professional sports player has kept himself/herself fit and done their job. Many people play squash and don't need a knee replacement whereas the people who eat themselves into that state can't possibly claim being fat is a side effect by chance, like a bad knee is for the squash player.

Just so you don't think i'm a complete fatist i also don't believe smokers should be treated for lung cancer etc, alcoholics for liver failure etc. It's hard line but it might actually stop people from being so flippant with their bodies knowing that they can just go and get it sorted for free.

Fat people pay taxes, smokers pay taxes. They have every right to be treated.

[-:Undertaker:-]

privatisation of the NHS will prove to be a disaster like almost every other privatisation scheme - higher costs for everyone, benefiting the monopolist owners, government but not the tax payers (or even worse insurance payers)...

Not all privatisation schemes have led to a disaster, yes some have led to higher costs - but only because the reforms swapped government monopoly for corporate monopoly. A bus service for example is a monopoly for corporations of which councils decide on who is given the contract when if it were to be done properly anyone would be open to run a bus service along any given route they wished to serve - thus would lower the prices through competition. The west and capitalism (the best form of economics) has advanced in the past solely due to competition.

We often talk about all these 'great' public services our councils run with taxpayer money...... I don't know of any.

[Technologic]

People expect too much from the NHS, it provides what is needed. It's not a hotelier