Coalition just the same as Labour? they prove it everyday, now with ID cards

[AgnesIO]

This is what I was thinking, quite like Undertaker to take any oppertunity to take something so trivial out of proportion. I hardly think that having the same login details for multiple websites is quite the same as carrying the key to identity theft in your pocket.

I realise that the governments plan is not to help us, but they want all our identities to be stolen, and to wind up certain 100% anti-three main party people. They therefore devised this plan which would successfully annoy absolutely anyone who dislikes the three main parties in the first place.

However, I think this could be quite logical in shops etc, I know that isn't the idea, but if it had your name on it, you would have to swipe your identity card to make your purchase - would make catching criminals easier as police would be able to find out exactly where they had been.

[Hecktix]

I agree that this is by far the ID card system that labour proposed (and I supported, afterall for reasons that the likes of Mathew & Robbie have said in this thread, ID cards could work quite well if introduced correctly).

However as Technologic quite rightly pointed out, this is more of a single identity on the web, for instance at the moment you have to have a different account for student finance and other areas of direct.gov.uk. However, I can only see this single account nonsense as a security flaw.

[FlyingJesus]

Dan as others have said this is clearly not the same thing as having to carry around a chipped ID card in case a passing policeman wants to check if you're an illegal immigrant lol. My bank, along with many others, has a login system whereby you are required to use your card in a special reader to get the access codes and get into online banking, which is pretty much what this looks like tbh, rather than a way for the government to steal your private details and hold records of their political enemies

[GommeInc]

I assume it will be less risky to carry these than a passport or something?

In Spain, you have to have your passport with you when driving, so perhaps this would take a similar role?

I'd say it's more risky to be carrying around something like an ID card that allows you access to Government websites and services, than a passport which only makes up part of the ID card.

[Inseriousity.]

I agree that the 3 main parties are pretty much the same (although we both know they'll never create a coalition cos thats just not how powerhungry leaders work). Despite that, I don't have much of a problem with ID cards anyway. I studied french and one of the french exchange student was amazed that we didnt have them.

I think it's a bit of a conspiracy theory that governments will be very interested in your details. They want to know what you're doing, where you're going blah blah blah. Well I feel sorry for the poor bugger who has to keep track of my life. As you say, the majority of people are law-abiding citizens. So in a country with 60 million people, why do you think they're going to have any interest in you?

[Chippiewill]

I think it's a bit of a conspiracy theory that governments will be very interested in your details. They want to know what you're doing, where you're going blah blah blah. Well I feel sorry for the poor bugger who has to keep track of my life. As you say, the majority of people are law-abiding citizens. So in a country with 60 million people, why do you think they're going to have any interest in you?

It's not like they don't have loads of your information anyway, they can track your movements with new CCTV software and since on average per day you are caught on three hundred CCTV cameras they can get a lot of information about you, eating habits, clothing interests etc.

Thing is, they don't, because they don't actually have a use for that information. The people we should be fearing are the supercorporations who we give our information too and sites like this where someone could actually just take all our passwords by saving an unencrypted copy of it everytime we log in and steal paypal accounts and the like because they'd also have our emails. Worrying about a governent who knows that you have a peanut allergy is ridiculous when google knows about 90% of the sites you go on.

[alexxxxx]

I wouldn't even say the title of this is even correct. The government isn't even building a centralised system, it seems like a card company will certify that it is you when then the government website asks it.

And gommeinc, have you never applied for a student loan or applied for a provisional driver's licence?

back to the ID debate, i think that there are arguments for and against.

[GommeInc]

And gommeinc, have you never applied for a student loan or applied for a provisional driver's licence?

Never had a student loan or applied for one, and I cannot remember what I did for my provisional license I can't see how the card would be needed for this other than for an ID code which can be hammered in each time.

It depends if all of your accounts and access to the Government websites and schemes merged into one is safe, reliable and worth the cost. The card in my opinion is useless, but merging all the accounts and allowing a single way to access all of the services seems like a good idea though. I don't see the point in the card just for a picture and a chip, both of which exist in two forms (passport and driver's license).

All I know is that the idea is a little bit better than the Labour version which wanted everything attached to the card and just screamed "waste of tax payer's money". This is just borderline.

[alexxxxx]

Never had a student loan or applied for one, and I cannot remember what I did for my provisional license I can't see how the card would be needed for this other than for an ID code which can be hammered in each time.

It depends if all of your accounts and access to the Government websites and schemes merged into one is safe, reliable and worth the cost. The card in my opinion is useless, but merging all the accounts and allowing a single way to access all of the services seems like a good idea though. I don't see the point in the card just for a picture and a chip, both of which exist in two forms (passport and driver's license).

All I know is that the idea is a little bit better than the Labour version which wanted everything attached to the card and just screamed "waste of tax payer's money". This is just borderline.

No, read the article. It never says they want to start up dishing people out cards, it says that the card companies 'who have already verified the identities' can certify that they are who they say they are. So you could log into the government system with your NatWest account, for instance.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Dan as others have said this is clearly not the same thing as having to carry around a chipped ID card in case a passing policeman wants to check if you're an illegal immigrant lol. My bank, along with many others, has a login system whereby you are required to use your card in a special reader to get the access codes and get into online banking, which is pretty much what this looks like tbh, rather than a way for the government to steal your private details and hold records of their political enemies

The article states it is not the exact same thing, the worry is that they are introducing it via the backdoor as they always do with almost everything. The government preaches about civil liberties and how nasty Labour took them away from us (granted which it did, faced with a useless opposition) but the coalition is doing exactly the same behind closed doors. I'm just exposing them for their hypocrisy, and the idea that big government is on the way out is total nonsense and its time Conservatives and Liberal Democrats stop saying so.

I like the idea of ID cards because it stops, or helps prevent, illegal immigration. However I don't like it because I won't be able to get beer by claiming I'm 18 when I'm 16 with a car >_> (Blue Badge ftw).

But yeah I think in general it is a good idea, but if they thought it was a good idea they shouldn't have scrapped it because it just makes them look hypocritical now.

Does it? I thought good border controls stopped illegal immigration, and we fly with passports to prove who we are don't we? ..and there's nothing you can do about uncontrolled immigration anyway when you are part of the EU.

The next thing i'll be reading is that it stops terrorism.

I've always been a fan of ID Cards to be honest. It reminds me if when we go on a cruise and everyone is given their room key on a little card with their name, DOB, etc; you can also pay for stuff on it at the bars and shops which is brilliant.

I think ID Cards are a good way to know exactly who is who and I think it can only be beneficial.

Why do I need to prove who I am? and to who and for what reason? i'm an innocent subject, i'm not a criminal nor have I been convicted of any criminality and besides, I already have a passport, a birth certificate and a NI card therefore I can prove who I am to you any time I wish.

So wheres the benefit in the government having my fingerprints/eye scans?

If this was done the right way, then they'd have a biometric chip on them which, upon swiping, it would give photographs of the pupil and fingerprint. It would make border control in countries such as the United States much easier because all you'd need to do is swipe your card. It's like carrying a mini-passport and I think it has potential.

Why not chip new borns aswell? it'll make us all safe, surely?

Interesting to see that they've brought it back after shooting it down though. It appears to be arguing for the sake of arguing in Parliament lately. Oh you're a Labour MP so obviously your idea if ****e, and the likes....

Not surprising that they have really is it, sometimes I forget we even had an election back last May.

From what I understand from this highly informative article the government wants to bring in a standardised system by which everyone has a single log in for the various government websites to reduce costs? This is hardly a return to ID cards....

Not to the full system no, but then we never knew properly what the plans were even when Labour were considering them. Not trusting any of them (with good reason and evidence provided on request) I view this with suspicion.

This is what I was thinking, quite like Undertaker to take any opportunity to take something so trivial out of proportion. I hardly think that having the same login details for multiple websites is quite the same as carrying the key to identity theft in your pocket.

See above.

I realise that the governments plan is not to help us, but they want all our identities to be stolen, and to wind up certain 100% anti-three main party people. They therefore devised this plan which would successfully annoy absolutely anyone who dislikes the three main parties in the first place.

Well they don't really need someone to go out of their way and steal them when government loses them itself all of the time. It is interesting you bring up, although with sarcasm, why the government feels the need to make us carry around chips, take our fingerprints (thus destroying habeus corpus) and have our eye scans - because not one of you or the government seems to have made the case for it yet.

So, naturally, because I think I wonder why this is. Do you?

However, I think this could be quite logical in shops etc, I know that isn't the idea, but if it had your name on it, you would have to swipe your identity card to make your purchase - would make catching criminals easier as police would be able to find out exactly where they had been.

If we put CCTV everywhere (maybe even including indoors) crime would also be severely reduced by logic, support that aswell? or does that sound too sinister and something that a government upto no good would do to its people?

I'd say it's more risky to be carrying around something like an ID card that allows you access to Government websites and services, than a passport which only makes up part of the ID card.

The government has a habit of losing information of both subjects and its own information, why the people in this thread trust government handling any of their details let alone more is simply beyond me.

I agree that the 3 main parties are pretty much the same (although we both know they'll never create a coalition cos thats just not how powerhungry leaders work). Despite that, I don't have much of a problem with ID cards anyway. I studied french and one of the french exchange student was amazed that we didnt have them.

I think it's a bit of a conspiracy theory that governments will be very interested in your details. They want to know what you're doing, where you're going blah blah blah. Well I feel sorry for the poor bugger who has to keep track of my life. As you say, the majority of people are law-abiding citizens. So in a country with 60 million people, why do you think they're going to have any interest in you?

A free government and a free country doesn't need ID cards, as i've said before - I can already prove who I am using offical government documents as can the rest of us. I do not see why I should be treated like a criminal, have my civil liberties trashed when the case for bringing in ID cards is non-existent.

I wouldn't even say the title of this is even correct. The government isn't even building a centralised system, it seems like a card company will certify that it is you when then the government website asks it.

And gommeinc, have you never applied for a student loan or applied for a provisional driver's licence?

back to the ID debate, i think that there are arguments for and against.

.. is this alexxxxx the libertarian speaking?