Do you think you are born gay or it is a lifestyle?

[Judas]

I can be childish also if you wish Judas, you hetrosexual denier (thats right, remember the holocaust).

But as I said before, you homosexuals who act like yourself do yourselves no favours at all with your attitudes to criticism.

1) I'm not a homosexual
2) No one has criticised me in this thread for my orientation, I'm simply trying to explain to you what the word homophobia means.

Stop with your baseless claims pls :S

[-:Undertaker:-]

From my Collins thesaurus:

Phobia
aversion, detestation, dislike, distaste, dread, fear, hatred, horror, loathing, obsession, repulsion, revulsion, terror

In that case, why is nobody labelled as 'EUphobic', 'ClubHabbo phobic' or 'immigration phobic' - why? because its ridiculous and childish.

Clearly not and the 'he started it' excuse would also be childish

Well actually thats an sarcastic example, but nevermind.

[Judas]

In that case, why is nobody labelled as 'EUphobic', 'ClubHabbo phobic' or 'immigration phobic' - why? because they aren't actual words like homophobic is

fixed.

[FlyingJesus]

In that case, why is nobody labelled as 'EUphobic',

Eurosceptic

'ClubHabbo phobic'

Sensible

or 'immigration phobic'

Intraxenophobic or nationalist

- why? because its ridiculous and childish.

Or possibly because there are other words for them and not everything has to use the same language roots, especially in a language as diversely inspired as English

[beth]

GirlNextDoor15 has not voiced any fear of homosexuality/homosexuals, there is no homophobia at all in her post. At that, she has not even expressed any dislike (which is not homophobia, see above) towards homosexuality or homosexuals in general, rather towards the culture that surrounds the issue ... And you have just added to that culture, the idea that homosexuality is above all criticism.



Indeed, this is correct. We only have to look at gay 'pride' marches (which our shameful councils pay for) when most people actually find them repulsive, cringeworthy and flaunty for a variety of reasons from the message to the theme. We only have to look at the propaganda in schools, not just preaching just tolerance anymore (which is not the place of schools anyway) but actually teaching 'acceptance' which I find a sinister hint of Orwell's 1984 within. We also have the cult of the likes of Lady Gaga and the usual 'baby I was born this way' rubbish that we have to put up with whenever homosexuality is brought up, which, sadly, closes any rational debate on the subject down.

There is nothing homophobic nor have you shown any hatred or dislike of homosexuals in your post. Even if you had shown a dislike of homosexuality or even a fear (personally i've never come across a fear of homosexuals so I don't see why its being mentioned so often) then you are perfectly entitled to do so.

(if there's any bizarre autocorrects in this post its cause i'm doing it on my phone.)

i said borderline for a reason but i do believe there was negative connotation from her words towards homosexuality/homosexuals. which i disagree with. if you don't like gay culture that's different to disliking homosexuality is it not? and if that is what she meant it could've been worded better. homophobia to me is someone disliking homosexuality to the point of being offensive about it. i don't really care who/why/how i came to have that personal definition but i am very much entitled to my own opinion.

i can understand people disliking gay culture, but i believe people disliking homosexuality is odd. if yr comgortable with yr own sexuality why does someone else's sexuality bother you so much?

but then not to contradict myself, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Eurosceptic

Sensible

Intraxenophobic or nationalist

Or possibly because there are other words for them and not everything has to use the same language roots, especially in a language as diversely inspired as English

As you can see, not a 'phobic' word - homophobic is used purposely to dismiss any criticisms or dislike of homosexuality by classing this criticism/dislike of homosexuality as some sort of mental retardation. This is because the word has been hijacked, unlike on other topics as of yet, to silence all criticism of homosexuality. When phobia becomes added to everything we dislike/criticise, then i'll take you all seriously using it - until then i'll treat it as you all do but care not to admit so; an attempt to dismiss criticisms and distaste to homosexuality.

If I dislike homosexuality I am not homophobic, I simply dislike it just as I may dislike the colour orange/a family member.
If I criticise homosexuality I am not homophobic, I simply am criticising homosexuality in general/parts of homosexuality.
If I have an irrational fear of homosexuality I am homophobic.

(if there's any bizarre autocorrects in this post its cause i'm doing it on my phone.)

i said borderline for a reason but i do believe there was negative connotation from her words towards homosexuality/homosexuals. which i disagree with. if you don't like gay culture that's different to disliking homosexuality is it not? and if that is what she meant it could've been worded better. homophobia to me is someone disliking homosexuality to the point of being offensive about it. i don't really care who/why/how i came to have that personal definition but i am very much entitled to my own opinion.

i can understand people disliking gay culture, but i believe people disliking homosexuality is odd. if yr comgortable with yr own sexuality why does someone else's sexuality bother you so much?

but then not to contradict myself, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

But it isn't that - homophobia is simply a dismissive term used to dismiss any criticism/dislike of homosexuality. If you really have the courage of your convictions and believe you have sensible counter-points to those who show a dislike/criticise homosexuality, then debate it rather than use dismissive terms 'well your just a homophobe' as though the arguments advanced are being advanced by somebody mentally retarded.

As for my exact opinions on sexuality, I haven't spoken them out in this thread - i've just stood up against one side of the debate being shut down as it usually is through the use of certain words, just as with global warming (denier), immigration (xenophobe) etc etc. But GirlNextDoor15 wasn't even showing a dislike/distate towards homosexuality, let alone a phobia of homosexuality.

If people are going to oppose criticism of homosexuality, then they are going to have to come up with better reasons for rejecting that criticism rather than simply saying that any criticism or distaste of homosexuality is 'homophobia'.

[Inseriousity.]

If people are going to oppose criticism of homosexuality, then they are going to have to come up with better reasons for rejecting that criticism rather than simply saying that any criticism or distaste of homosexuality is 'homophobia'.

Likewise, one could argue that:

If people are going to oppose criticism of criticism of homosexuality, then they are going to have to come up with better reasons for rejecting that criticism of the criticism rather than simply arguing over the origins of a word.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Likewise, one could argue that:

If people are going to oppose criticism of criticism of homosexuality, then they are going to have to come up with better reasons for rejecting that criticism of the criticism rather than simply arguing over the origins of a word.

Because all you do is stifle debate with that word, thats why no debate can be held on it either here on in the public square - anyone who dares shows a dislike, distate or criticism of homosexuality is instantly dismissed as a frothing-at-the-mouth 'homophobe'.

I stated before, I haven't even given my opinions so much on this topic - but i've seen another member vilified for a harmless comment.

[peteyt]

GirlNextDoor15 has not voiced any fear of homosexuality/homosexuals, there is no homophobia at all in her post. At that, she has not even expressed any dislike (which is not homophobia, see above) towards homosexuality or homosexuals in general, rather towards the culture that surrounds the issue ... And you have just added to that culture, the idea that homosexuality is above all criticism.



Indeed, this is correct. We only have to look at gay 'pride' marches (which our shameful councils pay for) when most people actually find them repulsive, cringeworthy and flaunty for a variety of reasons from the message to the theme. We only have to look at the propaganda in schools, not just preaching just tolerance anymore (which is not the place of schools anyway) but actually teaching 'acceptance' which I find a sinister hint of Orwell's 1984 within. We also have the cult of the likes of Lady Gaga and the usual 'baby I was born this way' rubbish that we have to put up with whenever homosexuality is brought up, which, sadly, closes any rational debate on the subject down.

There is nothing homophobic nor have you shown any hatred or dislike of homosexuals in your post. Even if you had shown a dislike of homosexuality or even a fear (personally i've never come across a fear of homosexuals so I don't see why its being mentioned so often) then you are perfectly entitled to do so.

You do bring an interesting point. When it comes to gays, to me there is a big issue with problem/issue with the way they are often shown, the issue being THE MEDIA.

How many gay's do you see that aren't over the top camp on TV. Not very many. I feel the media really should try to show gays at both ends of the spectrum and in the middle. Instead of just having over the top camp hosts, Graeme Norton coming into my mind right now, why not have some softer gays.

I find it kind of weird how some gay's love to flaunt how their gay, I'm gay look at me. You don't really see the straight equivalent like I'm straight look at me. I'm not saying that that's a bad thing, but it just seems the media only shows one side.

And I do have an example. The actor Russell Tovey who's been in Doctor Who and the BBC3 comedy Him & Her (Where he interestingly plays a very convincing straight guy in a relationship). He found it hard to come out simply because there was no role model for him, there was no proper blokey kind of gay's instead simply the over the top famboyant type and so while he considers himself gay he thinks he doesn't fit into the gay type society.

I think that's the important thing here. There are people out there that are gay that act straight, because that's just them, they don't like the over the top campyness. The Media really needs to portray both sides. I think it would help with people confused about their sexuality like Russell Tovey.

Also after reading all your comments I still don't fully agree with being born gay. I read that the lady who was voted off X Factor at the weekend, can't remember her name, but apparently she turned Lesbian after her last relationship.

You could say that she always knew she was, but to me people's tastes change. Music I used to like I hate now. I mean you hear of people who've been straight all their life and then they meet one person of the same sex and they feel a powerful connection that they'd never felt with the same sex before.

I know Patrick Wolf a musician doesn't actually believe in sexuality himself. Instead he thinks its based on the person, so he may fall in love with a brilliant girl or a brilliant guy, but it is the person he falls for and not the sexuality of that person.

[Inseriousity.]

Because all you do is stifle debate with that word, thats why no debate can be held on it either here on in the public square - anyone who dares shows a dislike, distate or criticism of homosexuality is instantly dismissed as a frothing-at-the-mouth 'homophobe'.

I stated before, I haven't even given my opinions so much on this topic - but i've seen another member vilified for a harmless comment.

No you don't stifle debate with that word because the debate continues on regardless of it. She wasn't described as a 'frothing at the mouth homophobe', she was described as a "borderline homophobe" which is just an opinion and not fact. The only one stopping the debate is you by going onto completely different tangents as you say you haven't even given your opinion and we're already on page 4.