Lets play them at their own game

[-:Undertaker:-]

Play them at their own Game

Following the three main parties, the Conservatives, the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats showing contempt for democracy and the will of the people (with the exceptions of the 111 fair and patriotic MPs of all three parties including those from Northern Ireland), maybe its time to try again until they [the political class] get the message.

A new petition has been started on the HM Government e-petitions website stating that, following the dismal response from parliament, they need to try again to respect the wishes of the people - just ask Ireland, France and the Netherlands! I'd urge all on here to sign so that we get the referendum on who runs this country.

If you can’t beat them then join them. Old Holborn suggests that the Europhiles should be played at their own game; keep asking them the same question until you get the answer that you want. Guido is inclined to agree:

This tactic, however fruitless when faced with a careerist political class, is what the European Union does when it doesn't get the 'right' answer. The key difference being that this is what the people want, not what the politicians want. This will not rest.

Click to sign here.

Thoughts?

[.Tom.]

I totally agree a referendum on our participation in the EU should be called, it is clearly what the people want

However, my only issue with this is that a large part of our population do not truly understand the changes that would take place if we did indeed remove ourselves from the EU

It effects so many different aspects of our lives, I think if we did pull out, there would be an uproar from the people who simply voted with the 'Britain is Best' mindset, when they truly realise that the EU has provided some great positives to our lives, as well as the negatives.

[Chippiewill]

Just signed this, a very important issues that should not have been dismissed with such ease. It is a farce that the government are not respecting the system that allows for a far more direct democracy.

[jam666]

Greece now gets a referendum, where the hell is ours?. They may be a select few but a big thank you to the 111 patriots who voted FOR a referendum.

[GommeInc]

Greece now gets a referendum, where the hell is ours?. They may be a select few but a big thank you to the 111 patriots who voted FOR a referendum.

Not every day you can say Greece is more of a democracy than the UK

[AgnesIO]

I totally agree a referendum on our participation in the EU should be called, it is clearly what the people want

However, my only issue with this is that a large part of our population do not truly understand the changes that would take place if we did indeed remove ourselves from the EU

It effects so many different aspects of our lives, I think if we did pull out, there would be an uproar from the people who simply voted with the 'Britain is Best' mindset, when they truly realise that the EU has provided some great positives to our lives, as well as the negatives.

The problem is the people don't understand the matter. There are many advantages to the EU, but some people refuse to look at those.

[AgnesIO]

Greece now gets a referendum, where the hell is ours?. They may be a select few but a big thank you to the 111 patriots who voted FOR a referendum.

And the Greek referendum is the most stupid decision made by a politician in a long time. If the Greeks vote against it, they could cause a global economic crisis. That would be a perfect example of a referendum that was a bad idea.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The problem is the people don't understand the matter. There are many advantages to the EU, but some people refuse to look at those.

What are these advantages, and secondly if you consider them advantages ask yourself whether or not these advantages could be made on a national level/treaty level in order to suit each individual sovereign state better than pan-legislation?

From studying the topic I have found no advantages to our membership which could not be implemented by our parliament/an agreement.

And the Greek referendum is the most stupid decision made by a politician in a long time. If the Greeks vote against it, they could cause a global economic crisis. That would be a perfect example of a referendum that was a bad idea.

Without the Euro this crisis would not have reached the levels it has done. These nations are broke, they are going to default no matter what the EU and national government say, and they will have to exit the Euro at some point.

Allow the people to decide, rather than unelected EU commissioners.

[AgnesIO]

What are these advantages, and secondly if you consider them advantages ask yourself whether or not these advantages could be made on a national level/treaty level in order to suit each individual sovereign state better than pan-legislation?

From studying the topic I have found no advantages to our membership which could not be implemented by our parliament/an agreement.



Without the Euro this crisis would not have reached the levels it has done. These nations are broke, they are going to default no matter what the EU and national government say, and they will have to exit the Euro at some point.

Allow the people to decide, rather than unelected EU commissioners.

That is so hypocritical! Don't allow the unelected EU commissioners decide, but let the unelected people (who will have far less knowledge than the unelected EU commissioners) decide. Yeah right.

And, obviously if you worked out agreements then we would be fine - but the fact is we wouldn't just be able to walk out, and then get every agreement we like, Dan - whatever that ****** of a man Nigel says, or what you say - sorry, but it is true.

Firstly, being part of the EU means the 27 countries inside it can come together in decisions, such as imports and exports which mean we are very powerful - which without the EU we would not be quite as powerful - it is common knowledge you will be heard more if there are more of you - or two is better than one.

Also, being part of the EU means we can easily trade with other countries inside it - and again, yeah an agreement would enable us to do this too. But it doesn't take a scientist to work out that countries are not just going to let leave their Union and get still get all the benefits. An example of a problem that could arise..; lets use chocolate. The UK has turned in to the biggest chocolate manufacturer in the world. However, the UK then decides to leave the EU - which the EU are obviously not happy about, as they have now lost money and an extra bit of power. So, the EU decides it will tax us on any Chocolate imported in to the EU from the UK - - and the tax is very, very high - so no one bothers to buy the chocolate in Europe anymore. BANG, the UK industry has just lost half a billion consumers in an instant - and half a billion of the most wealthy consumers in the world.

I have also studied the topic - and unlike some, I actually look at both advantages and disadvantages of it - rather than being completely against it or completely for it (heh, lets be honest, that is how parties such as the BNP come around..) Pretending the EU has no advantages whatsoever shows your lack of knowledge, not vast amounts of knowledge.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That is so hypocritical! Don't allow the unelected EU commissioners decide, but let the unelected people (who will have far less knowledge than the unelected EU commissioners) decide. Yeah right.

Then you need to find out what democracy means, the people decide how the country is run - not foreign unelected EU diplomats, not the IMF or the World Bank. As for knowledge, turns out the people have been CORRECT haven't they? along with 'that ****** of a man' Nigel Farage.

The game is up, everything you EU supporters have said has turned to mush and you still defend it as it collapses around our heads.

And, obviously if you worked out agreements then we would be fine - but the fact is we wouldn't just be able to walk out, and then get every agreement we like, Dan - whatever that ****** of a man Nigel says, or what you say - sorry, but it is true.

Yes we could, we simply repeal the 1973 EEC Act.

Parliament remains sovereign in theory, its as simple as that just as Iceland did the same when it left.

Firstly, being part of the EU means the 27 countries inside it can come together in decisions, such as imports and exports which mean we are very powerful - which without the EU we would not be quite as powerful - it is common knowledge you will be heard more if there are more of you - or two is better than one.

You have no idea of this project then, you are talking there about co-operation - I would be for such a body. The European Union works on the premise that nation states are overruled by the Commission. That is not working together, that is being told what to do.

Please read about the ECJ and the Commission which is the motor for implementing EU Law and then tell me its about 'working together'.

Also, being part of the EU means we can easily trade with other countries inside it - and again, yeah an agreement would enable us to do this too. But it doesn't take a scientist to work out that countries are not just going to let leave their Union and get still get all the benefits. An example of a problem that could arise..; lets use chocolate. The UK has turned in to the biggest chocolate manufacturer in the world. However, the UK then decides to leave the EU - which the EU are obviously not happy about, as they have now lost money and an extra bit of power. So, the EU decides it will tax us on any Chocolate imported in to the EU from the UK - - and the tax is very, very high - so no one bothers to buy the chocolate in Europe anymore. BANG, the UK industry has just lost half a billion consumers in an instant - and half a billion of the most wealthy consumers in the world.

Wrong, please read about the World Trade Organisation (WTO) which prohibits this.

As for simply leaving, yes we can - Norway, Mexico, Switzerland and around 40 other countries have signed trade agreements with the EU.

I have also studied the topic - and unlike some, I actually look at both advantages and disadvantages of it - rather than being completely against it or completely for it (heh, lets be honest, that is how parties such as the BNP come around..) Pretending the EU has no advantages whatsoever shows your lack of knowledge, not vast amounts of knowledge.

I look forward to your replies, because of the 'advantages' you have raised - they are simply hot air and/or are false.