Do you believe in 'god'?

[Not-Thrilled]

...by forgetting about religion. It'll never happen, as only intelligent people can see that religion was created long ago to contain people and keep them obedient.
E.g. "If you steal, you'll go to hell and be burnt alive."
Unfortunately, it's still believed today as it's an easy thing to believe in and is seen as a refuge for some people. It offers easy answers to very difficult questions, perfect for simpletons.
Person A: How did the earth come abouts?
Person B: God did it duh.
Person A: How did we come abouts?
Person B: God made us duh.
Person A: How does God look after all the other billions and billions planets in the universe then?
Person B: Ugh...umm...hmm...shutup before I get God on you.

It gets pretty laborious these sorts of theads to be honest. You get people who think they know everything saying "god iz gay", you get silly religious people going on about some god and you get the reasonably intelligent people going on about how it's impossible. Just one never ending circle of conflicting ideas. Does it ever get anywhere? No. Do you ever change someone's opinion on religion? No. Is it pointless? Yes.

[Mentor]

Ok this is gona be one hell of a big reply.

It isnt that I dont believe, its that I dont know. There is no solid proof either way that there is a god or not. No one can say they know, because they dont. It will always remain a mystery.

Although, if I had to guess, I would say no. Because if there is a god, why would he let bad things happen? If he doesnt want people to kill each other, why doesnt he stop them himself? He is all powerful, why cant he? And on that, why would he care? Why would we care if one person didnt go to a certain place on sunday to praise him?

Anyway, a few things I have noticed about religion:

"Religion is a source of comfort and strength in a world torn apart by religion"- John Stewart. It was ment in a humorous way, but that quote, it does make you think.

How come when we talk to god, it is called praying, but if god talks to us, its insanity? It makes no sence. If it isnt unbelievable that there is an all powerful being no one has ever seen before, why isnt it unbelievable that person talked to someone?

Why are religious people, a lot of catholics, so concerned about gay marrage? It says NOWHERE in the bible that gay marrage is wrong. All the time they use saying that, could be used for helping the poor, which is mentioned a million times in the bible.

Some religions believe that only a certain number of people can fit in, or go to heaven. If this is true, why would they want people to convert? Wouldnt they want a better chance for themselves to go to heaven?

There is truth in what you say, in the older less edited version of the bible jesus actaly hung around with gay people, as theres were at the time scoitys outcasts just like the leppers and all that. Then again many cristsans dont even take the main messages of the bible and deniy what it even says.
Aka Jesus Was a ******* aka was born out of wedlock, wich is half the point of the story, as by the curant standards that was wrong (changed to be wrong in the editings in the new load aslo) as well as the point jesus was supposed to be a practising jewish etc etc "/

I personally do, because i cannot see how life could exist without a god... I mean, life had to be created somehow...

Well its quite easy if u do you reaserch, enogh time, enogh matter to work with within the laws of phiscics, its statsicaly immppoessible life didnt come around evenetaly, and hey presto herer we are after a few billion years of evoiltion from bactreaia to us.

These objective moral laws come from society. I.e., it wasn't right for women to wear dresses until later on during the 20th century:
"A century ago, prescribed sartorial propriety for women meant torsos had to be trussed up in corsets and bare flesh kept to an absolute minimum.
The undeniable biological fact that women had legs, and were able to do anything other than keep them firmly together, had to be kept secret at all costs. Even horse riding was carried out sideways-on, legs together and heavily swathed.
Times have moved on, and the sight of a woman in jeans or shorts is no longer motivation for panic and rioting on your average city street."

"Times have moved on." If you get what I'm saying, as time goes on, more things become acceptable, more things become unacceptable. People have developed a perception of right and wrong, based on society as well as their own judgement. They don't need a God to tell them whether it's right or not to murder a baby. If God told them what was right and wrong, I don't think we'd've gone to war quite so many times, or there wouldn't be so much murder. It's because people's perceptions of right and wrong differ on matters, that we have war, murder, and argumentation (not unlike this thread). I just believe you're contradicting yourself here, saying God provided the morals of right and wrong, whereas people commit murder. Surely he would've made some pretty fatal mistakes, don't you think?

I agree with that, morality is based on teh scocal climet, and not just over time preidos, over location as well, even traveling around erupoe you would notice some major diffences in the socal outlooks, wich in tern shape morality, some of these points used to ad humar to the hsbc adverts for exsample.

The human body has had million of years to develop. Give it some credit.

Humans had millions, think of the billions of years it took to get from the bacteria to the humans, that all went in to the making also, and then the billions of the statical chnaces of the bactrea coming around, and multiply that my the near infinate amount of places this would be happening, and its hard to image how life / humans could not have eveolved.

Illogical? I'm not quite sure I can agree with you. Is it entirely logical that a God created this world in less than a week?

good point since, if u have a conspet of god at all as all powerful, the time preriods would make no diffence to how long it should take somthing all powerful to achive this. even if the evidance shows to a massive degree it oviosly didnt.

Well, we must know something about God, because we have the Bible. Whether it is correct, or incorrect, it's still telling us about God, right?

Very incorrect, To Know somthing would mean it had to be true, wether empircal, ratonal or otherwize, as it is immposble to exsperince any effects of this, or run teh conspet mentaly as proof, It is there for absoulty immpsobe to Know. We know there is a bible, but we do not know if what it says is compleat Bs or true. so therefor we do not KNOW.

(And accounting for the belief of there being no God, at least we know something about the theory of God.)
Prove there's no truth. Prove there's no religion. This is why this argument doesn't get resolved, you can't prove there's a God, and you can't prove there is no God. (Sure, maybe because of all the people adamant there is one. If it was merely another theory that a scientist came up with, it would get dismissed pretty quickly on the account of having no proof. But it's not.)
But while God is worshipped by so many, you actually have to prove there's no proof, or no existence of God.

Proveing theres no proof is quite easy, since the bible is in no way shape of form proofs, unless you take from another thread pokmon as proveing jiggle puffed is real?

If it was an accident, it was a damn lucky one.

AN accdincent it isnt real, its probalty, theres so much time, so much space, so much matter, so much movement, that its more aless immposble for it not to have happened, and an accidnt is a mistake, there was nothing to make a mistake, so it was chance, and probalty that braogh us around.

I disagree. God wants us to love Him, but without free will, we could not sincerly love Him. We canot be forced to love someone. If God creted us without free wil, we would be living machines and not made in his image and likenes. God permits moral evil to the extent that he gives us free will. Thanks to us, the moral evil in the world is the result of our choice.

If its our choise, why does he send people for hell for doing it, when hes the one being more evil, casuing all the erthequakes and sunamis? or would it be simpler to conclude there just isnt a god.

and as for moral laws; you, as an atheist, believe that laws have been created has' times move on '. That society is continually changing and is able to make decisions as to what is acceptable and unacceptable. AS A CATHOLIC, I believe that these are HUMAN LAWS, so divine and moral laws must have come from GOD. The basis of which is The Ten Commandments.

So how come somethings that are unacceptablke in the 10 commandments are perfectaly acceptable moraly to the majorty of people today, and in many cultures thrwoight history its been diffent also, murder for exsample, isnt that what happened in the roman coluseums? that was perfectly moraly acceptable to them enevr there less "/
Murder, as in burning witches by Cristaians, way to follow your own teachings, God must have messed up inseting them in to his followers brains.

As I've said in this thread many times I think the Holy Bible is not intended for literal interpretation. I believe that God created or at least intended for the creation of this world.

Theres nothing to stop u belive that yet, as theres nothing to stop anyone else belive otherwize, we are still a long way of knowing before, but the evidenace strongly favors the no god when u look, so im sticking with that.

thats what i told him.....lets forget him now :8 Everybody has their own theory to everything. One of which, Christianity, is w.i.d.e.l.y accepted.

Most views are also widely accepted, by diffent groups of people, and if u check teh figures, aithism is souring up there in erupoe, and cristanty is plumeting down.

this is my favourite quote about this topic:

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., of Materialism and Astronomy - are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset."

-- C.S. Lewis

Thats i kind od inpertion, as There was no inetinion, so no mistake. Probalyty and chance played the roll. roll a dice you get someone from 1 to 6, your not going to randomly get a 7. Why becuse of the way the dice is formed. The unoiverce is also formed to conform to a base set of laws, eleteromagntism garvety etc etc.
Within this fraim the chance came abouit, trhe chnace of getting rolling a 6 with a dice, with a 100 billion trys, is nearly deffinty your going to get a 6, so getting life, wich is a far higher level of chance, but an equalty higher level of chances to get it in.

this proves my point. if you believe that human life was created by partly chance, or fully chance.....or anything in which you don't believe that there is a greater power...there is no greater meaning to life other than live it.

We asign our own meaing, the human speacis main meanings of life are simply to gain knolage, and to survive, wich si what sepertaes us, as we being the only speacies on our plente to have the knolage we have knolage, is the reason we seek the knolage to start with.

o i enjoy life and like being alive and arguably it is an effective evolutionary strategy to believe there is a meaning for life - just as it is an equally effective strategy to believe in life after death. there are many 'meanings of life' in christianity (eg live this life good, and you'll live the next one better) others, atheists included, beleieve the meaning of life is this; to make a constructive contrbution to the evolution of humanity, in order to maximize our longterm chancs of survival (immortality). In essence, the 'meaning of life' is to incraese evolutionary fitnes.

How would that be a everilty stratergy, evoltion is not a consiose event? we dont make choises in it, its happening indepentantly, due to the varitaion within the speacise. How does there ether beinge life after death? or just dieing, have any effect on our lifes? if we belive in life after death, wasit our lifes praying and no doing any real good? thats a waste of a life to me, if we belive in no life after death, so make the best of this one, and help others to have better ones in term, then u have doen somthing with your life, and its less of a waster, wich ever it could be life after death or just the death?

But would you not think God would want it to be that way? For instance, take the Adam & Eve story, say its true, they made the wrong choice by taking the apple, they wanted knowledge like God, it was curiosity and jealousy that made them take it. And people nowadays make the wrong choices, like murder, they get punished for it, just like Adam & Eve got punished.

Gods supposed to be ominsiant, meaing he already knew what we would do before we did it, so why did he need to test us to start with? Plus he made us that way, knowing the way he made us ment we would, why is he punishing us, for whats oviosly his mistake?

But I know what your saying is on a whole different level, but if its true God doesn't want to help us. We gotta help ourselves.

If hes on a whole diffent level, he would not have sent jesus down, he would not cair if u loved him or not, he would not cair if u prayed or not, etc etc, wich goes complty agaist the personal god who talks to indevicuals descipbled in the bible?

...by forgetting about religion. It'll never happen, as only intelligent people can see that religion was created long ago to contain people and keep them obedient.
E.g. "If you steal, you'll go to hell and be burnt alive."
Unfortunately, it's still believed today as it's an easy thing to believe in and is seen as a refuge for some people. It offers easy answers to very difficult questions, perfect for simpletons.
Person A: How did the earth come abouts?
Person B: God did it duh.
Person A: How did we come abouts?
Person B: God made us duh.
Person A: How does God look after all the other billions and billions planets in the universe then?
Person B: Ugh...umm...hmm...shutup before I get God on you.

It gets pretty laborious these sorts of theads to be honest. You get people who think they know everything saying "god iz gay", you get silly religious people going on about some god and you get the reasonably intelligent people going on about how it's impossible. Just one never ending circle of conflicting ideas. Does it ever get anywhere? No. Do you ever change someone's opinion on religion? No. Is it pointless? Yes.

I strongly dissagre with the last bit, since scinace is based on the evidance, if the evindance suddley shows there is a god after all, anyone who actaly belives in sciance, would follow whats shown by the evidcance, if not there would be no point to the science to strat with, scinece moves, and changes so it is correct, it eveolves. only religion stays static and unchanging, and therefore evenatly dies?

[Not-Thrilled]

I strongly dissagre with the last bit, since scinace is based on the evidance, if the evindance suddley shows there is a god after all, anyone who actaly belives in sciance, would follow whats shown by the evidcance, if not there would be no point to the science to strat with, scinece moves, and changes so it is correct, it eveolves. only religion stays static and unchanging, and therefore evenatly dies?

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that debating god/religion never changes anyone's view on it. People usually have very strong views on religion and it would take something quite big to change them. Like evidence, as you said. It will never be proved though, either way, whether god exists or doesn't.
I disagree with your last points. Religion doesn't necessarily "stay static" especially recently as we've seen with September 11th. Not that views are changing or anything, just their beliefs are evolving and being adapted to the modern world. Also, religion will never die unfortunately, as I said. It's too big.
(Good post btw, nice to see.)

[RedStratocas]

Im not arguing either way, but really, no one can know for sure. I dont THINK that there is, but if there is, okay, Ill believe it, but for now, I have no idea.

But I hate the religions that say that other religions are wrong. I think buhdism is great, because they respect other religions and beliefs, and I think thats because they are smart enough to say, they dont know if there is one that is right, or one that is wrong ect.

Anyway, yeh mentor, bible has been revised. It used to say a bunch of things it doesnt today. Its because as time passed, there was a scientific explenation for things that jesus or god did, so they took it out, so it didnt look like a lie. I think as time goes on, there will be more and more evidence proven against that there is a god, because in the past 2000 years, there hasent been any evidence for there being a god, only against. "Miracles" dont count.

[Mentor]

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that debating god/religion never changes anyone's view on it. People usually have very strong views on religion and it would take something quite big to change them. Like evidence, as you said. It will never be proved though, either way, whether god exists or doesn't.
I disagree with your last points. Religion doesn't necessarily "stay static" especially recently as we've seen with September 11th. Not that views are changing or anything, just their beliefs are evolving and being adapted to the modern world. Also, religion will never die unfortunately, as I said. It's too big.
(Good post btw, nice to see.)

oh ok. But i dont get your last part about religion changes? ive witness no changes in any belife systems, nore am aware of them, other than certain realigos bodys punlicly condeming terrisum, every one of the religions already supposedly condemed that and vilence before that, "/

Also i dissgaree that religion will never die, since a only a few 100 years ago, and aithist would have been just as rediculus to many, there was no over option, but the amount of non belives are at stedy increce. So on the premis there is no major desatsers wich will set back our cultural and technilgical ideals by a huge amount, the ever growing scinetific knaolge will evnatly wipe out any and all forms of religios belifes, athogh i agree it would take a lage exsapnce of time for such a cultaral change to come about complty

Im not arguing either way, but really, no one can know for sure. I dont THINK that there is, but if there is, okay, Ill believe it, but for now, I have no idea.

But I hate the religions that say that other religions are wrong. I think buhdism is great, because they respect other religions and beliefs, and I think thats because they are smart enough to say, they dont know if there is one that is right, or one that is wrong ect.

Anyway, yeh mentor, bible has been revised. It used to say a bunch of things it doesnt today. Its because as time passed, there was a scientific explenation for things that jesus or god did, so they took it out, so it didnt look like a lie. I think as time goes on, there will be more and more evidence proven against that there is a god, because in the past 2000 years, there hasent been any evidence for there being a god, only against. "Miracles" dont count.

As you said no one can know, but i still think thats a yet, i do think evenatly it will be solave able once and for all.
I also agree with buddism, its the only religion that has quotes that i quite like and agree with in it, along with its attaituds and outlooks, athogh in considertion buddism, Doesnt nessarly have a God to it, it is actaly a aithist religion in terms, as that budda has never been seen as a god, but more as a teacher, or great exsample etc.

Also the last bit is true, the bible was upated regualy to make up for any major incsostnacys when say somthing was proven to be complty propstrus, alot of the reason they exsicused many of the orgnal people who tranlated it in to english, as that was avible to everyone meaning they could not cover up any major changes made in it. Wich is why the religion has stoped be edited now and has started lossing its point and become alot of bs in many arias "/

[zak-x]

WOW great debating carry on =]

[Forest-Law]

I'll end my posting in this thread, (for a while at least), with this;

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.

[Flunky-Sunset!]

Very incorrect, To Know somthing would mean it had to be true, wether empircal, ratonal or otherwize, as it is immposble to exsperince any effects of this, or run teh conspet mentaly as proof, It is there for absoulty immpsobe to Know. We know there is a bible, but we do not know if what it says is compleat Bs or true. so therefor we do not KNOW.

Ahh, I think you missed my point. That, if God did happen to exist (bear with me, here), and the Bible happened to be true, then you would've known. (A long shot, but still one possibilty, right?) But, however, we know about the theory of God. If it's all a story, then we know much about this "story" from the Bible. I'm not sure if I can explain it in another way, actually.

Proveing theres no proof is quite easy, since the bible is in no way shape of form proofs, unless you take from another thread pokmon as proveing jiggle puffed is real?

I meant that, though there's no proof that God himself exists, so many people are believers that you can't convince them all. The atheist would, therefore, have to present clear proof that God did not exist, to sway opinions. Having no proof that God exists just isn't enough for most people. ;P

But I hate the religions that say that other religions are wrong.

Same. It's just hypocrisy when religions start using retorts of "Your religion is wrong!"
"No, yours is!"
Etc.

...by forgetting about religion. It'll never happen, as only intelligent people can see that religion was created long ago to contain people and keep them obedient.
E.g. "If you steal, you'll go to hell and be burnt alive."
Unfortunately, it's still believed today as it's an easy thing to believe in and is seen as a refuge for some people. It offers easy answers to very difficult questions, perfect for simpletons.
Person A: How did the earth come abouts?
Person B: God did it duh.
Person A: How did we come abouts?
Person B: God made us duh.
Person A: How does God look after all the other billions and billions planets in the universe then?
Person B: Ugh...umm...hmm...shutup before I get God on you.

It gets pretty laborious these sorts of theads to be honest. You get people who think they know everything saying "god iz gay", you get silly religious people going on about some god and you get the reasonably intelligent people going on about how it's impossible. Just one never ending circle of conflicting ideas. Does it ever get anywhere? No. Do you ever change someone's opinion on religion? No. Is it pointless? Yes.

I see you have a very fixed opinion already. By the way; "you get silly religious people going on about some god and you get the reasonably intelligent people going on about how it's impossible. Just one never ending circle of conflicting ideas."
Most arguments are "one never ending circle of conflicting ideas." So if someone has a belief, they're not intelligent? (I think you may have the wrong word anyway. Intelligence, in a simple definition, is the potential to acquire knowledge. Maybe "reasonably knowledgeable" would have been better wording. But I'm getting off track... o.o).

"It gets pretty laborious these sorts of theads to be honest. You get people who think they know everything saying "god iz gay""
Not once did I see someone say "god iz gay". o_o; Whether it's a generalisation or not... it's pretty faulty, huh? Anyway, if the threads are too laborious for you, don't read them. I know it's a simple answer, "don't read it." etc. But, honestly, I hate it when people complain when they have the ability to, oh yes, not click on the link. Maybe you were curious? If you were, why did you only post to tell us that religious people are "silly" and that the only intelligent ones are the ones saying God doesn't exist? I see a narrow minded person before me. However, I'm not one to judge.
Maybe I misunderstood your post? It came across as a very (as I've said already) fixed opinion.

Does it ever get anywhere? Well, there's quite a few pages. I'd say it's gotten somewhere. It's made you post, hasn't it?
Do you ever change someone's opinion on religion? Who cares if you don't? The point is to explain to people why you believe/don't believe in something.
Is it pointless? Not if someone learns something.

"by forgetting about religion. It'll never happen, as only intelligent people can see that religion was created long ago to contain people and keep them obedient. "

I agree that it may have been created to retain obedience. (Though there's the intelligence thing again...)

[-sFusion-]

Woah, your first post was so long I didnt actually read it, and there are so many posts, I didnt read any of them either, so forgive me if I repeat someone's point.

Anywayz, Yea i believe in "God" just because I know I've asked for stuff to him and I in someone get a response of either yea, no, or later. Weird I know.

And, I just think someone created the universe, cuz its so perfectly position so we can live here.

And I'm not a firm believer in luck, so without a God, we're super lucky that we are on the perfect planet and alive.

Plus, if there isn't a God, there isnt an "afterlife" and that means once we die, we're dead, so what's the point of life? To live 70 years and die? I'd rather we live 70 years and then go to heaven or something.

Just my thoughts on the issue..

[Forest-Law]

Woah, your first post was so long I didnt actually read it, and there are so many posts, I didnt read any of them either, so forgive me if I repeat someone's point.

Anywayz, Yea i believe in "God" just because I know I've asked for stuff to him and I in someone get a response of either yea, no, or later. Weird I know.

And, I just think someone created the universe, cuz its so perfectly position so we can live here.

And I'm not a firm believer in luck, so without a God, we're super lucky that we are on the perfect planet and alive.

Plus, if there isn't a God, there isnt an "afterlife" and that means once we die, we're dead, so what's the point of life? To live 70 years and die? I'd rather we live 70 years and then go to heaven or something.

Just my thoughts on the issue..

those pages u didn't read is basically me and a few others defending what u just sed. If your interested, I suggest you read through them. There are has been some great input from everyone.