Immigration now just one point behind the economy as most important issue facing UK

[The Don]

Facepalm. What on earth are you talking about? Free trade doesn't exist solely within the European Union legal framework you know, hence the WTO framework along with Free Trade Agreements which are diplomatically thrashed out between the EU-Saudi Arabia or the EU-Switzerland. Mexico is not within the EU, EEA or EFTA yet enjoys a negotiated FTA with the EU. The same for countless other countries.

In ANY case you don't have to be in the EU to be in the EEA - Norway and Iceland are the two prime examples of EFTA states that are in the EEA but not in the EU.

The UK would have to negotiate this though which is what we've been arguing. We can't just say "Sorry brussels but we're leaving the EU, but we want all the benefits of remaining, ta."

[-:Undertaker:-]

The UK would have to negotiate this though which is what we've been arguing. We can't just say "Sorry brussels but we're leaving the EU, but we want all the benefits of remaining, ta."

Well yes we can, through article 50. Nobody is arguing for a sudden overnight withdrawal without a transitional process - that's what article 50 is for. The British Government would sit down with the EU and negotiate over the areas we still wanted to co-operate in on an intergovernmental basis. Then, following the end of the two-year period when negotiatioins have been completed the United Kingdom would cease to be a member of the EU and those arrangements that will have been thrashed out would come into effect. A smooth process.

If it was as economically risky as you seem to think, then three former Chancellors wouldn't be advocating it.

[The Don]

Well yes we can, through article 50. Nobody is arguing for a sudden overnight withdrawal without a transitional process - that's what article 50 is for. The British Government would sit down with the EU and negotiate over the areas we still wanted to co-operate in on an intergovernmental basis. Then, following the end of the two-year period when negotiatioins have been completed the United Kingdom would cease to be a member of the EU and those arrangements that will have been thrashed out would come into effect. A smooth process.

A smooth process if brussels allowed it which brings us full circle. Pointless debate.

[-:Undertaker:-]

A smooth process if brussels allowed it which brings us full circle. Pointless debate.

And Brussels wouldn't make it difficult as it wouldn't be in the interests of Brussels or allowed under WTO rules.

[The Don]

And Brussels wouldn't make it difficult as it wouldn't be in the interests of Brussels or allowed under WTO rules.

~Completely ignores the entire flood gate point~ If the UK left without repercussion, other countries might follow which is definitely not in the interests of Brussels which is why I don't think it would happen as smoothly as you think it would. Anyway, we're arguing over a hypothetical scenario based on assumptions. Silly debate.

[-:Undertaker:-]

~Completely ignores the entire flood gate point~ If the UK left without repercussion, other countries might follow which is definitely not in the interests of Brussels which is why I don't think it would happen as smoothly as you think it would. Anyway, we're arguing over a hypothetical scenario based on assumptions. Silly debate.

The European Union isn't in a position to be issuing threats to the world's sixth largest economy and number one financial centre - if it did then it'd be in trouble at the WTO and would look like a pariah on the international stage. And the fact that you think Brussels could act in such a way is surely all the more argument to leave what has become a centralised and power hungry organisation that has no regard for what the peoples of Europe think about the 'project'. It's time for all of Europe to pull the plug, but my prime concern is this country. My country.

[The Don]

The European Union isn't in a position to be issuing threats to the world's sixth largest economy and number one financial centre

The EU has the worlds largest economy, I fail to see your point? The UK would be harmed more than the EU.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The EU has the worlds largest economy, I fail to see your point? The UK would be harmed more than the EU.

The EU isn't a single economy though. The single market is far from complete so the concept of a single market or the EU as one economic bloc is as ridiculous as classing NAFTA as one economic bloc.

Under trade barriers, both sides always lose. So it is in both parties interest to avoid a trade war and to negotiate an amicable divorce with as much relaxed trade as possible: something the UK has always been very vocal in pushing on the world stage. There really is nothing to worry about and all this talk of a trade war is just that: talk.

[The Don]

The EU isn't a single economy though. The single market is far from complete so the concept of a single market or the EU as one economic bloc is as ridiculous as classing NAFTA as one economic bloc.

Under trade barriers, both sides always lose. So it is in both parties interest to avoid a trade war and to negotiate an amicable divorce with as much relaxed trade as possible: something the UK has always been very vocal in pushing on the world stage. There really is nothing to worry about and all this talk of a trade war is just that: talk.

This is kinda that whole assumption thing again. I withdraw from this thread, can't be bothered going round in circles.

[-:Undertaker:-]

This is kinda that whole assumption thing again. I withdraw from this thread, can't be bothered going round in circles.

Well it's also my assumption that if we withdraw from the EU we won't be kicked out of NATO or invaded by the EU. Why? Because I use common sense and tell myself that while that could potentially happen (as anything could) the political and economic factors at play determine that it won't happen or is very unlikely to happen.

I've heard all this before, it's just scaremongering as a last resort in attempt to keep us away from the exit door.