Rolf Harris found guilty of indecent assaults

[The Don]

Sentencing remarks: http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-conte...-v-harris1.pdf
Summary of the evidence: http://www.theage.com.au/world/rolf-...skin=text-only

Both links contain descriptions of the assaults.

[FlyingJesus]

What genius came up with giving 69 months for sexual assault

[The Don]

What genius came up with giving 69 months for sexual assault

The Labouchere Amendment (which made homosexuality a crime) had only been scrapped two years prior to his first offence, so it's no wonder the sentencing guidelines are ridiculous when they're being influenced by that time period.

[-:Undertaker:-]

And no, but if they're no longer a threat then why keep them locked up when that money and space could go towards housing a true threat?

I think you're forgetting what the justice system is for in the first place.

In any case, we can easily afford it - stop sending £11bn overseas and clean the scum up from our streets, there's your money worry sorted.

Well then we fundamentally disagree because you obviously think prisons should be for punishment and retribution whilst I think they should be preventative and to rehabilitate.

Punishment acts as a deterrence, thus preventing others from doing the same.

I agree with Kardan, from some of the charges - especially regarding the 7-year old - the sentence is disgusting. But again, as i've always said... if somebody in my family is ever murdered or harmed in the most serious way, and either the Judge or the system (politicians) decide to let that vermin out onto the streets then i'll hold the Judge/politicians just as responsible as the person who carried out the crime.

And I cannot say what I may decide to do to rectify that situation.

[The Don]

I think you're forgetting what the justice system is for in the first place.

If you think justice should defined by retribution then you're no better than those that support sharia law.

Punishment acts as a deterrence, thus preventing others from doing the same.

Sensible punishments, yeh. Harsh punishments do nothing but encourage more/worse crimes.

I agree with Kardan, from some of the charges - especially regarding the 7-year old - the sentence is disgusting. But again, as i've always said... if somebody in my family is ever murdered or harmed in the most serious way, and either the Judge or the system (politicians) decide to let that vermin out onto the streets then i'll hold the Judge/politicians just as responsible as the person who carried out the crime.

And I cannot say what I may decide to do to rectify that situation.

Vigilante justice is not justice.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you think justice should defined by retribution then you're no better than those that support sharia law.

Yes, because operating a civilised justice system with a jury and innocence until proven guilty is akin to cutting peoples hands off.

Sensible punishments, yeh. Harsh punishments do nothing but encourage more/worse crimes.

Who is arguing against sensible punishments? We're arguing here for sensible punishments, which are no longer handed out.

Vigilante justice is not justice.

Oh it is to me. I constantly find myself now wishing for murderers to have their throats slashed in prison because I know that our soft headed injustice system will let them out after a few years and they'll be back on the streets, likely to commit over and over.

Now I do not want that, as i'd prefer a civilised system as we used to have. But the politicians have brought me to this and the politicians will bring me to potentially having to administer justice myself if anybody I care about is ever harmed and does not recieve justice.

If a justice system starts failing to deliver justice, then vigilante groups/individuals will begin to do it. Look at failed states for examples.

[FlyingJesus]

"It's the politicians' fault that I have violent wishes towards people"

[-:Undertaker:-]

"It's the politicians' fault that I have violent wishes towards people"

If a family member is abused or murdered by somebody who is released after having committed those crimes in the past, then the blame in part then falls on either the Judge who sentenced them or the politicians who passed the law limiting sentences to a certain period. Absolutely.

The same applies to a scenario where a family member is murdered and a lax sentence is given. If the state won't administer justice, somebody has to.

[The Don]

Yes, because operating a civilised justice system with a jury and innocence until proven guilty is akin to cutting peoples hands off.

Wanting a retribution based law system is akin to the eye for an eye system which is a large principle in sharia law based countries.

Oh it is to me. I constantly find myself now wishing for murderers to have their throats slashed in prison because I know that our soft headed injustice system will let them out after a few years and they'll be back on the streets, likely to commit over and over.

What would you rather we do with murderers instead of trying to rehabilitate them? Kill them? How is that any different to cutting off somebody's hand for stealing? It's pure savagery and i'm glad that the death penalty has been abolished in the UK. The reality is that the large majority of criminals will eventually roam the streets again someday. Rather than trying to punish them we should attempt to rehabilitate them so that when they are released they can become functioning members of society. If you kept them in prison and didn't educate them (which I recall you're against, correct me if i'm wrong), allow them access to books and encourage them to improve themselves then they will simply resort to crime when released as they will be exactly the same as when they entered the correctional system, other than being older, having less job prospects due to their criminal record, and considerably more angry at society.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wanting a retribution based law system is akin to the eye for an eye system which is a large principle in sharia law based countries.

So there's really no comparison except that Islamic countries believe in justice as we do, right.

What would you rather we do with murderers rather than try to rehabilitate them? Kill them? How is that any different to cutting off somebody's hand for stealing? It's pure savagery and i'm glad that the death penalty has been abolished in the UK. The reality is that majority of criminals will eventually roam the streets again someday, rather than trying to punish them we should attempt to rehabilitate them so that when they are released they can become functioning members of society. If you kept them in prison and didn't educate them (which I recall you're against, correct me if i'm wrong), allow them access to books and encourage them to improve themselves then they will simply resort to crime when released as they will be exactly the same as when they entered the correctional system, other than being older, less job prospects due to their criminal record, and considerably more angry at society.

Rehabilitation among murderers is a complete myth as those selected for rehabilitation, along with most murders in the first place are committed not by serial murderers but in fits of rage, anger or a long-standing personal grudge. Those selected for rehabiltation in those circumstances are unlikely to kill again for the reason that they never intended to go on a killing spree in the first place, that the person they killed was a one-off event, ie a neighbour who they really really really loathe and despise and it boils out of control (the anger). Or a thief who ends up in a struggle with an elderly homeowner and ends up knocking them on the head leading to their death.

But that isn't the point. The point is that my family member is DEAD via an unforgivable act of evil and I want justice for my family member or anybody for that precise matter. The person who ended the life of the one close to me should be punished (preferably via hanging in my opinion).

Now if people like you want to 'rehabilitate' the likes of savage and evil child-murderer Ian Huntley, then so be it. But just think what people like me will resort to because I can tell you that if somebody I know is murdered and the murderer is let off then I will be seeking revenge in spades, and not just against the murderer but also those who failed to administer the just penalty for the taking of a life. Think Michael Caine in Harry Brown (the film) who I was cheering on throughout.

..other than being older, having less job prospects due to their criminal record, and considerably more angry at society.

Typical liberal-left mentality, that the fault is with society (ie everybody else).

No, the fault is with the one who committed the crime in the first place.