EU Referendum Megathread (Brexit)

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well it is long and tedious since Turkey has only met 1 out out of the 35 targets for joining since 1987, and you know very well that Greece lied about their financial situation to get in quicker.

Yeah cos we all know to take these countries at their word. :rolleyes:

If you believe the EU really believed Greece then you should be asking just how stupid are they in Brussels and why an organisation so moronic should have power over an entire continent of 400m people. Or maybe - call me cynical - but just maybe... the EU went along with it putting its own political goals before the economic reality. Y'know, just as they did with the Euro itself by moronically creating a monetary union without fiscal, banking or political union.

[The Don]

Yeah cos we all know to take these countries at their word. :rolleyes:

Huh? Are you saying that Turkey has met more than 1/35 of the targets necessary to join the EU since 1987?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Huh? Are you saying that Turkey has met more than 1/35 of the targets necessary to join the EU since 1987?

I'm saying when you say Greece lied about its economic situation to the European Union are you really as naive to think that the EU was stupid enough not to know that type of country's knack for making up dodgy figures? As I said, if it really did believe the Greeks and others then it only proves its [EU] dangerous stupidity.

And again as I said, maybe it is stupidity. After all, they created a monetary union without fiscal/banking/political union which would be like building the roof of your house before you've actually built the walls of the house. Either they're incredibly stupid, or, dangerous as they ignore realities in favour of their blind utopianism.

I personally opt for dangerous given how despite the absolute disaster they've caused, they continue onwards pushing for "more Europe" aka more power.

[The Don]

I'm saying when you say Greece lied about its economic situation to the European Union are you really as naive to think that the EU was stupid enough not to know that type of country's knack for making up dodgy figures? As I said, if it really did believe the Greeks and others then it only proves its [EU] dangerous stupidity.

And again as I said, maybe it is stupidity. After all, they created a monetary union without fiscal/banking/political union which would be like building the roof of your house before you've actually built the walls of the house. Either they're incredibly stupid, or, dangerous as they ignore realities in favour of their blind utopianism.

... Ok?

Doesn't change the fact that since Turkey applied to join the EU 29 years ago (technically it's predecessor...) they've only managed to meet 1 of the 35 objectives for joining. You're intelligent enough to know they aren't suddenly going to meet the other 34 within a couple of years, it's a nonissue.

[-:Undertaker:-]

... Ok?

Doesn't change the fact that since Turkey applied to join the EU 29 years ago (technically it's predecessor...) they've only managed to meet 1 of the 35 objectives for joining. You're intelligent enough to know they aren't suddenly going to meet the other 34 within a couple of years, it's a nonissue.

Other countries have done or have claimed to have done and have thus joined.

If it is a non-issue then why does Mr Cameron, leader of your campaign, not pledge to veto it? And why are they extending visa free travel?

See, this is the problem with this whole debate. You know Turkey as a candidate member is in the process of joining and that the European institutions along with British Government want it to join, but you also know how unpopular the thought of opening our borders up to 80 million Turks would be. So like Mr Cameron, you're sitting here trying to convince me otherwise that Turkey isn't going to join when it's a candidate country, when leaked cables are discussing visa free access to over 1m Turks after the referendum, when the EU is accelerating Turkish membership talks and extending visa free travel as the beginning of this and Mr Cameron himself is on record multiple times saying how he's Turkey's strongest supporter for joining.

It may not be joining tomorrow, next year or for two years. But it is going to join. Why can't Remain + the PM admit this so we can have an honest debate?

[The Don]

Other countries have done or have claimed to have done and have thus joined.

If it is a non-issue then why does Mr Cameron, leader of your campaign, not pledge to veto it? And why are they extending visa free travel?

See, this is the problem with this whole debate. You know Turkey as a candidate member is in the process of joining and that the European institutions along with British Government want it to join, but you also know how unpopular the thought of opening our borders up to 80 million Turks would be. So like Mr Cameron, you're sitting here trying to convince me otherwise that Turkey isn't going to join when it's a candidate country, when leaked cables are discussing visa free access to over 1m Turks after the referendum, when the EU is accelerating Turkish membership talks and extending visa free travel as the beginning of this and Mr Cameron himself is on record multiple times saying how he's Turkey's strongest supporter for joining.

No, I have never said "they are not joining" so i'd appreciate it if you didn't lie, I literally said in my first post "It would be wrong to say they're definitely never going to join". They are attempting to join. That is a fact. They have only met 1 out of the 35 targets necessary to join the EU in the past 29 years. That is a fact. They aren't magically going to be in the EU tomorrow, they are a long, long way from meeting the requirements to become a member of the EU. They then have to have their accession approved by all the leaders of the 28 EU countries. Turkey being a member of the EU is a nonissue as it's simply not going to happen for an incredibly long time, if ever.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It is an issue because it is in the process of joining, we're already shovelling money into it for it to join and we're about to grant it visa free travel.

You just don't *want* it to be an issue because it is unpopular for you to address. Why doesn't Cameron just say he'd veto it?

[The Don]

It is an issue because it is in the process of joining, we're already shovelling money into it for it to join and we're about to grant it visa free travel.

You just don't *want* it to be an issue because it is unpopular for you to address. Why doesn't Cameron just say he'd veto it?

Erm excuse me? Are you saying we are giving Turkey money through the EU?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I've just seen a clip of a passionate speech on Facebook I have never seen before. Blown away by it.

The late Peter Thorpe (Labour) with Barbara Castle sitting behind him. Amazing.

https://www.facebook.com/81270731550...9713003142535/

"Fear, fear, fear"

Erm excuse me? Are you saying we are giving Turkey money through the EU?

Indeed.

http://avrupa.info.tr/eu-funding-in-...riorities.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35486655

Turkey has been receiving pre-accession assistance from the EU since 2001, under the Turkish Financial Instrument. Funds are programmed on an annual basis under National Programmes for each year. As from 2007, this pre-accession Financial Instrument for Turkey has been replaced by the Instrument for Pre-Accession Assistance (IPA) which provides pre-accession assistance for both candidate and potential candidate countries.

[scottish]

I've just seen a clip of a passionate speech on Facebook I have never seen before. Blown away by it.

The late Peter Thorpe (Labour) with Barbara Castle sitting behind him. Amazing.

https://www.facebook.com/81270731550...9713003142535/

"Fear, fear, fear"



Indeed.

http://avrupa.info.tr/eu-funding-in-...riorities.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35486655

couldn't of been any use if we voted to remain a few days later?