Do you believe in 'god'?

[Forest-Law]

sorry if this is double post

these are the 3 main belief systems;

Creation science: God created the universe. All of the various species of plants and animals that currently exist (and that once existed) on earth are descendants of the original life forms that God created during the single week of creation. This is the most popular belief system.
Theistic evolution view: The universe is about 14 billion years old. The earth's crust developed about 4.5 billion years ago. God created the first cell, and then used evolution as a tool to guide the development of each new species. The process culminated in human beings.
Scientific view: Beliefs are identical to the theistic view, except that God is assumed to have played no part in the processes. Scientists assume evolution was driven by blind, purely natural forces.

[Mentor]

and what has our planet done to the animals that once lived here. used them to evolve. what is next in this planets evolution??? this species cannot live foever (your take on the word will has been taken way out of context - i meant this thread....because everybody has different opinions which they believe)

Evioltion, does not destory and make a new speacise, teh changes are indectable over short preriods, everything will continue to eveolve and change for verraly forever, the only way to whipe out a speacise, such as humans, would be complet simatinuls desctrution, aka blowing up the entire planet, in to small little rocks maybe, short of that where to wide spread to get rid of compolty, if climet changes, we Will eveolve to sute, as will ever other animal, strains of them will die, but more steps in the speacses will still be soon to follow, for its survaval to take place.

if infinity has been around forver and always, thsi contradicts u saying evrything needs a creator. if infinty does not need a creator why does God? (and infinity does need a creator because something must have started it all, something must have triggered the universe to expand)

No i didnt say evething needs a creator, you actaly said that as a reason for god.
If god is needed to create the univce that means everything would need a creator for that to work. But as i dont eblive in god, and belive the univce can come from nothing itself, then the whole ivtaly part isnt even needed.

The univces size is said to be infite, this is true, yet not true thogh, the univer is growing, so it could not be infite, But it is, since its exsplkaning at the maximum speed it is possible to travel at, so nothing being able to exseed it, its therefor infitly big due to hwoever fast you move the end wil always be out of reach etc.

so nature just one day creates a male and female human being and we're all one family? I understand the basics of evolution and much besides that. but why are we here and who put us here?

:rolleyes: nature didnt just randomly creat us, its a few billiuon years of eveoltion here, with enogh time and enogh matter, evently the right cheimcals will mix and there will be life, life will the spread, starung of with millions of indpenet cells, wich evenatly take on simbitic presnts to survive, and eventaly form larger single organims, repcodition at this stage is asexual, aka no male of femail. This comes around as another way of fast adpation and better surval chances, so this chance connection thrived and spread, becomeing ever more complexted, eveolving to survive what ever the obsical maybe, until us. Im going to hope u at least get natraol selctoiopn on this one

To put it briefly, the structure of the solar system was specially designed for mankind to live. BY WHO OR WHAT??

No it wasnt, it was just one of trillions and trillons of other planets on other stars, this place was capable of suproing life so life evolved, if it hadent been, it wouldnt and we woulnt be here, but somewhere else where it had, would probly be asking this same question anyway, but it did happen here, hence this question is asked here.
No plan, no considnce erher, we evolved where we could, logical realy.

[Forest-Law]

Evioltion, does not destory and make a new speacise, teh changes are indectable over short preriods, everything will continue to eveolve and change for verraly forever, the only way to whipe out a speacise, such as humans, would be complet simatinuls desctrution, aka blowing up the entire planet, in to small little rocks maybe, short of that where to wide spread to get rid of compolty, if climet changes, we Will eveolve to sute, as will ever other animal, strains of them will die, but more steps in the speacses will still be soon to follow, for its survaval to take place.


No i didnt say evething needs a creator, you actaly said that as a reason for god.
If god is needed to create the univce that means everything would need a creator for that to work. But as i dont eblive in god, and belive the univce can come from nothing itself, then the whole ivtaly part isnt even needed.

The univces size is said to be infite, this is true, yet not true thogh, the univer is growing, so it could not be infite, But it is, since its exsplkaning at the maximum speed it is possible to travel at, so nothing being able to exseed it, its therefor infitly big due to hwoever fast you move the end wil always be out of reach etc.




:rolleyes: nature didnt just randomly creat us, its a few billiuon years of eveoltion here, with enogh time and enogh matter, evently the right cheimcals will mix and there will be life, life will the spread, starung of with millions of indpenet cells, wich evenatly take on simbitic presnts to survive, and eventaly form larger single organims, repcodition at this stage is asexual, aka no male of femail. This comes around as another way of fast adpation and better surval chances, so this chance connection thrived and spread, becomeing ever more complexted, eveolving to survive what ever the obsical maybe, until us. Im going to hope u at least get natraol selctoiopn on this one

No it wasnt, it was just one of trillions and trillons of other planets on other stars, this place was capable of suproing life so life evolved, if it hadent been, it wouldnt and we woulnt be here, but somewhere else where it had, would probly be asking this same question anyway, but it did happen here, hence this question is asked here.
No plan, no considnce erher, we evolved where we could, logical realy.

so, in reply to your belief of how life began...

The chemicals and whatnot create living things over billions of years. Therefore, life was a) EITHER INTENDED OR b) AN ACCIDENT:

a) if it was intended...who intended it? It makes no sense for every living thing to be put down to accidents. Something must have intended human life to be born and evolutionise.

b) If it was an accident, human life has no real purpose in the universe. There is no meaning to life and everyhting people are doing and where and how we are living - even doen to the point of destroying the planet (global warming etc) - ITS ALL ACCIDENT! It's illogical.

and in reply to your belief in EVOLUTION:

I tink in 100 or 200 years, we wil be messing with our own genome to prodce desired effects such as heightend intelligence and slowed ageing. (Though I shudder to think of the misuse the same technlogy will be put to).
In 10000 years, we would not even recognize us, we will be so advanced compared to what we have today. It would be like a caveman stumbling into modern chicago (worse actually, due to the exponential nature of growth and development). Natural genetic shifting will be the least of the sources of change, barely noticeable above intentonal genetic change and technology.

Human Life will eventually end...perhaps in a billion years or more or less...

*btw, i'm watching Cannibal:The Musical on the HorrorChannel at 11pm. Forgive my failure to reply if that comes to that.

[Mentor]

so, in reply to your belief of how life began...

The chemicals and whatnot create living things over billions of years. Therefore, life was a) EITHER INTENDED OR b) AN ACCIDENT:

a) if it was intended...who intended it? It makes no sense for every living thing to be put down to accidents. Something must have intended human life to be born and evolutionise.

b) If it was an accident, human life has no real purpose in the universe. There is no meaning to life and everyhting people are doing and where and how we are living - even doen to the point of destroying the planet (global warming etc) - ITS ALL ACCIDENT! It's illogical.

There is no meaing of life, or speacal purpos, thats just for people who are to big headed to accept in teh big skeam of things where pretty insignifant. But there is meaing to life, as in meaning is what we asign to it, its not like where living agaist our wishes, being foced to live, for a reason, i like many people quite like being alive and enjoy it "/

Accidnt is just your way of diffeing the ovios chance, chance played a big role, but it wasnt realy chance, it was stastical, with a univce of "infinte" size its immposble for there not to be a planet just right for life to evenolce, chances are there are many planets far better suted to life even than ours.

Intention would require a persons want, if god is supposedly imprsonal, as u suaggest by meantion the other exsiatnce stuff, that would mean he coulnt not intend anything, nothing needs to be inteneded, for somthing to happen, the majorty of cause and effect arnt intended, people dont intend to trip over, yet every so often they do dont they.

and in reply to your belief in EVOLUTION:

I tink in 100 or 200 years, we wil be messing with our own genome to prodce desired effects such as heightend intelligence and slowed ageing. (Though I shudder to think of the misuse the same technlogy will be put to).
In 10000 years, we would not even recognize us, we will be so advanced compared to what we have today. It would be like a caveman stumbling into modern chicago (worse actually, due to the exponential nature of growth and development). Natural genetic shifting will be the least of the sources of change, barely noticeable above intentonal genetic change and technology.

Human Life will eventually end...perhaps in a billion years or more or less...

We can already mess with are genome if we wanted, its realy just conquring the "morals" of certain parts of the population, wich have stoped it, wich then again is equaly moraly wrong, people suffer debiting illnesses, and die, when it woiuld be in realty incedibly easy to save them if they were alownd, in china it is and works succefuly, such as regreowng spinal tissue to cure parlised people, clone organs, so that people would not need to shorten there own lifes as donaters to save some elses, would mean the problems with organ regetion would be none exsitant, would be cheep and easy, with organs genticaly matching in abundace.
Yet we still do not, then again, progress is being made with the alloal of stem cell reaserch.

Also a cave man child, would be equaly as integent as you if it had teh same education as you, meandefiles even could equal todays mental capasitys "/ Are brain power hasnt realy changed in quite some time due to it being at more aless the pincal of effectivness, if it were any bigger it would be to slow, any smaller wount be able to giuve same cognative powers, meaing are brains would need to eveolve more aless a complty new proccessing system in order to function much beoned ours, wich would be more aless creating an enteirly diffent level of perseption "/

so im doubtful change would be that huge, the amount of knolage and undertsaning would be greatly incresed due to deveolpments in sciance, and other arias, plus due to the fact we will most likly have blown ourslef up a few times, we should probaly be phiscaly more resistant, and ahev a diffent scocal climent, as well as qavoding any realy major setbacks have started conqiquing the solar system.

im aslo doubtful of any large scale huamn infuced genrit modifcaions, as im doubtful it would be wanted, since it would take the fun out of things like sprots if people were genitcaly made to be able to run faster, and would most likly be treated like performace inhencaing drugs, the genitic modifation techolagys would be far more likly be used for desise screaning and immunty implants in childern, aka whiping out all desigs wihc sounds pretty good to me "/

[RedStratocas]

It isnt that I dont believe, its that I dont know. There is no solid proof either way that there is a god or not. No one can say they know, because they dont. It will always remain a mystery.

Although, if I had to guess, I would say no. Because if there is a god, why would he let bad things happen? If he doesnt want people to kill each other, why doesnt he stop them himself? He is all powerful, why cant he? And on that, why would he care? Why would we care if one person didnt go to a certain place on sunday to praise him?

Anyway, a few things I have noticed about religion:

"Religion is a source of comfort and strength in a world torn apart by religion"- John Stewart. It was ment in a humorous way, but that quote, it does make you think.

How come when we talk to god, it is called praying, but if god talks to us, its insanity? It makes no sence. If it isnt unbelievable that there is an all powerful being no one has ever seen before, why isnt it unbelievable that person talked to someone?

Why are religious people, a lot of catholics, so concerned about gay marrage? It says NOWHERE in the bible that gay marrage is wrong. All the time they use saying that, could be used for helping the poor, which is mentioned a million times in the bible.

Some religions believe that only a certain number of people can fit in, or go to heaven. If this is true, why would they want people to convert? Wouldnt they want a better chance for themselves to go to heaven?

[JoeyK.]

I personally do, because i cannot see how life could exist without a god... I mean, life had to be created somehow...

[Moose]

No, I don't.

[Flunky-Sunset!]

Title of the thread caught my eye. (By the way, I'm not sure putting God in quotes worked very effectively... we all know what you're talking about, without the quotes.)

Anyway, I just had a few points to pick:

simplest of human senses - right and wrong - does there really exist "right" and "wrong"? Is there anything wrong with ****, murder, child abuse? If so, why? Where do these objective moral laws come from, if not from God? How can there be a moral law without a moral lawgiver?

These objective moral laws come from society. I.e., it wasn't right for women to wear dresses until later on during the 20th century:
"A century ago, prescribed sartorial propriety for women meant torsos had to be trussed up in corsets and bare flesh kept to an absolute minimum.
The undeniable biological fact that women had legs, and were able to do anything other than keep them firmly together, had to be kept secret at all costs. Even horse riding was carried out sideways-on, legs together and heavily swathed.
Times have moved on, and the sight of a woman in jeans or shorts is no longer motivation for panic and rioting on your average city street."

"Times have moved on." If you get what I'm saying, as time goes on, more things become acceptable, more things become unacceptable. People have developed a perception of right and wrong, based on society as well as their own judgement. They don't need a God to tell them whether it's right or not to murder a baby. If God told them what was right and wrong, I don't think we'd've gone to war quite so many times, or there wouldn't be so much murder. It's because people's perceptions of right and wrong differ on matters, that we have war, murder, and argumentation (not unlike this thread). I just believe you're contradicting yourself here, saying God provided the morals of right and wrong, whereas people commit murder. Surely he would've made some pretty fatal mistakes, don't you think?

Yeah, I believe in God. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. Someone designed the world, everything is just so complex, human beings and the human mind is just the start. I think its amazing how the human body works, and I think in order for such a creation, someone must have created it.

The human body has had million of years to develop. Give it some credit.

it is an illogical conclusion to decide that the universe and every living thing in it was created by chance. There must be a creator, and in catholic belief, this creator is God. Religion is just one answer to the creation of the universe, one of which I happen to believe in, and many others, including yourself, do not. I am sure you have your own theory in how the universe began and what will happen to you, or your infinite self, when you die.

Illogical? I'm not quite sure I can agree with you. Is it entirely logical that a God created this world in less than a week?

In a world beyond our intelligence (so here nothing is like it is on earth....no matter what i can think of, everything exceeds the depths of my imagination) someone or something is controlling everything we do. They are controlling our brains, SO, they make our decisions. They made me take the decision to write this message, someone to make this forum, discover the internet, power, ETC. SOOooo does it realy matter to exist or question our existence, if everything we think is already planned out -Already been made so we never actaully live. There is no point in existence or death becuase its all planned.

I think this is what people refer to as fate?

We know Nothing, about god, full stop. Theres nothing suggesting a greater world, at all, all it is stupid complications to a relativly simple univce when it comes down to it.
There is no "truth" to the bible (i use truth in the phiophical term) or even to religion in its own right

Well, we must know something about God, because we have the Bible. Whether it is correct, or incorrect, it's still telling us about God, right? (And accounting for the belief of there being no God, at least we know something about the theory of God.)
Prove there's no truth. Prove there's no religion. This is why this argument doesn't get resolved, you can't prove there's a God, and you can't prove there is no God. (Sure, maybe because of all the people adamant there is one. If it was merely another theory that a scientist came up with, it would get dismissed pretty quickly on the account of having no proof. But it's not.)
But while God is worshipped by so many, you actually have to prove there's no proof, or no existence of God.

b) If it was an accident, human life has no real purpose in the universe. There is no meaning to life and everyhting people are doing and where and how we are living - even doen to the point of destroying the planet (global warming etc) - ITS ALL ACCIDENT! It's illogical

If it was an accident, it was a damn lucky one.

There is no meaing of life, or speacal purpos, thats just for people who are to big headed to accept in teh big skeam of things where pretty insignifant. But there is meaing to life, as in meaning is what we asign to it, its not like where living agaist our wishes, being foced to live, for a reason, i like many people quite like being alive and enjoy it "/

Well said. ^_^;

I think that's all I had to say...

[Forest-Law]

Title of the thread caught my eye. (By the way, I'm not sure putting God in quotes worked very effectively... we all know what you're talking about, without the quotes.)

Anyway, I just had a few points to pick:



These objective moral laws come from society. I.e., it wasn't right for women to wear dresses until later on during the 20th century:
"A century ago, prescribed sartorial propriety for women meant torsos had to be trussed up in corsets and bare flesh kept to an absolute minimum.
The undeniable biological fact that women had legs, and were able to do anything other than keep them firmly together, had to be kept secret at all costs. Even horse riding was carried out sideways-on, legs together and heavily swathed.
Times have moved on, and the sight of a woman in jeans or shorts is no longer motivation for panic and rioting on your average city street."

"Times have moved on." If you get what I'm saying, as time goes on, more things become acceptable, more things become unacceptable. People have developed a perception of right and wrong, based on society as well as their own judgement. They don't need a God to tell them whether it's right or not to murder a baby. If God told them what was right and wrong, I don't think we'd've gone to war quite so many times, or there wouldn't be so much murder. It's because people's perceptions of right and wrong differ on matters, that we have war, murder, and argumentation (not unlike this thread). I just believe you're contradicting yourself here, saying God provided the morals of right and wrong, whereas people commit murder. Surely he would've made some pretty fatal mistakes, don't you think?

I disagree. God wants us to love Him, but without free will, we could not sincerly love Him. We canot be forced to love someone. If God creted us without free wil, we would be living machines and not made in his image and likenes. God permits moral evil to the extent that he gives us free will. Thanks to us, the moral evil in the world is the result of our choice.

and as for moral laws; you, as an atheist, believe that laws have been created has' times move on '. That society is continually changing and is able to make decisions as to what is acceptable and unacceptable. AS A CATHOLIC, I believe that these are HUMAN LAWS, so divine and moral laws must have come from GOD. The basis of which is The Ten Commandments.

Illogical? I'm not quite sure I can agree with you. Is it entirely logical that a God created this world in less than a week?

As I've said in this thread many times I think the Holy Bible is not intended for literal interpretation. I believe that God created or at least intended for the creation of this world.

I think this is what people refer to as fate?

thats what i told him.....lets forget him now :8 Everybody has their own theory to everything. One of which, Christianity, is w.i.d.e.l.y accepted.

If it was an accident, it was a damn lucky one.

exactly....

this is my favourite quote about this topic:

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., of Materialism and Astronomy - are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset."

-- C.S. Lewis

Well said. ^_^; (towards meaning of life, there is no purpose etc)

this proves my point. if you believe that human life was created by partly chance, or fully chance.....or anything in which you don't believe that there is a greater power...there is no greater meaning to life other than live it.

There is no meaing of life, or speacal purpos, thats just for people who are to big headed to accept in teh big skeam of things where pretty insignifant. But there is meaing to life, as in meaning is what we asign to it, its not like where living agaist our wishes, being foced to live, for a reason, i like many people quite like being alive and enjoy it "/

o i enjoy life and like being alive and arguably it is an effective evolutionary strategy to believe there is a meaning for life - just as it is an equally effective strategy to believe in life after death. there are many 'meanings of life' in christianity (eg live this life good, and you'll live the next one better) others, atheists included, beleieve the meaning of life is this; to make a constructive contrbution to the evolution of humanity, in order to maximize our longterm chancs of survival (immortality). In essence, the 'meaning of life' is to incraese evolutionary fitnes.

I think that's all I had to say...

[Steph]

It isnt that I dont believe, its that I dont know. There is no solid proof either way that there is a god or not. No one can say they know, because they dont. It will always remain a mystery.

Although, if I had to guess, I would say no. Because if there is a god, why would he let bad things happen? If he doesnt want people to kill each other, why doesnt he stop them himself? He is all powerful, why cant he? And on that, why would he care? Why would we care if one person didnt go to a certain place on sunday to praise him?

Anyway, a few things I have noticed about religion:

"Religion is a source of comfort and strength in a world torn apart by religion"- John Stewart. It was ment in a humorous way, but that quote, it does make you think.

How come when we talk to god, it is called praying, but if god talks to us, its insanity? It makes no sence. If it isnt unbelievable that there is an all powerful being no one has ever seen before, why isnt it unbelievable that person talked to someone?

Why are religious people, a lot of catholics, so concerned about gay marrage? It says NOWHERE in the bible that gay marrage is wrong. All the time they use saying that, could be used for helping the poor, which is mentioned a million times in the bible.

Some religions believe that only a certain number of people can fit in, or go to heaven. If this is true, why would they want people to convert? Wouldnt they want a better chance for themselves to go to heaven?

But would you not think God would want it to be that way? For instance, take the Adam & Eve story, say its true, they made the wrong choice by taking the apple, they wanted knowledge like God, it was curiosity and jealousy that made them take it. And people nowadays make the wrong choices, like murder, they get punished for it, just like Adam & Eve got punished.

But I know what your saying is on a whole different level, but if its true God doesn't want to help us. We gotta help ourselves.