My opinions and flaws about HXF.

[Jamesy]

Good point. But if he argues with upper management won't he most likely be fired?

[jrh2002]

Something that's crossed my mind recently is the amount of posts jrh makes saying "I wish I could change x, y and z" when he is an AGM. Surely he has the power to enforce these changes, or at the very least put the ideas forward and argue them with higher management?

Jrh, what exactly is your job?

My main job is sorting out any staff problems/rule breaking. If there is any big issues I get the nice job of sorting it out and removing x, y and z and nvr would be doing similar but hes usually on during the silly hours due to his location so usually one of us is about I can't just make big changes like you all ask for but cna put a case forward for the change.
Sierk, Mad and the AGM's all read the feedback so I put my point across here for all to see including the members. If I feel strongly enough about an issue I will of course PM who it concerns for their opinion, chat about issues on msn or post it in the correct staff forum for example the forum management forum or the AGM forum but if I do that then you would all be asking why there is no response from staff even though we could be discussing it.

Do you want us to be more open and have our opinions on full view like I am trying to do even if it is being discussed out of view from everybody or do you want them kept hidden and then accuse us of ignoring the issues even though you don't know if we are ignoring them or not?

Good point. But if he argues with upper management won't he most likely be fired?

If I disagree with something strongly enough I would argue why even if it did mean I got fired but I hope that never has to happen.

[Jamesy]

My main job is sorting out any staff problems/rule breaking. If there is any big issues I get the nice job of sorting it out and removing x, y and z and nvr would be doing similar but hes usually on during the silly hours due to his location so usually one of us is about I can't just make big changes like you all ask for but cna put a case forward for the change.
Sierk, Mad and the AGM's all read the feedback so I put my point across here for all to see including the members. If I feel strongly enough about an issue I will of course PM who it concerns for their opinion, chat about issues on msn or post it in the correct staff forum for example the forum management forum or the AGM forum but if I do that then you would all be asking why there is no response from staff even though we could be discussing it.

Do you want us to be more open and have our opinions on full view like I am trying to do even if it is being discussed out of view from everybody or do you want them kept hidden and then accuse us of ignoring the issues even though you don't know if we are ignoring them or not?



If I disagree with something strongly enough I would argue why even if it did mean I got fired but I hope that never has to happen.

I hope not either

[Corporal]

I havent read anything other then your post but if you look at your data then ive noticed something.

---\ <- When I joined.
----\ <- When most of the "legends" left.

Maybe its you?

[Cixso]

I havent read anything other then your post but if you look at your data then ive noticed something.


Maybe its you?

I'll enter you into a joke book.

[nvrspk4]

No disrespect Percy but I'm so not reading that lol... I'll be here until the weekend.
Also Xiangu, you can't really "leave the forum if you don't like it," it shouldn't really come down to it. I know this doesn't really compare but could you imagine if that was Parliament's answer to us everytime we didn't agree with them?--"leave the country".

I kind of figured that No offense taken.

You shouldn't waste your time posting massive essays because 9 out of 10 people aren't going to read them. I know you try to help by answering everyone’s questions but it gets so confusing.

I agree with JackHb, get rid of infractions. When you receive and infraction it makes you feel like an e-rebel and makes you think that you have nothing to be good for so you may as well break rules and just go wild. (Speaking from experience) Also, people who have permission to give them out get way too much pleasure in it.

If anybody cares enough about the issue, they'll read it. For me that is sort of a test, and then I debate with the people who feel strongly enough to read through it and respond - after all, that is where the best arguments will come from. I did post a two point summary at the bottom though, because I don't want to exclude people who don't feel like reading that from the discussion

Indeed, and because you wouldn't know, you woldn't have anything to complain about other than a PM from a forum moderator.

Heh, a very good point. I guess the counterargument to that is that people have a right to know where they stand on a disciplinary basis - but personally I'm more leaning towards siding with you

More than what you get with the infraction system. The infraction system would of been better on old Habbox and the usernotes system would of been better in this generation. Moderators etc don't have a clue what a member has done and obviously wouldn't know every member, so notes on each member would be a hell of alot easier for old and new moderators alike. The infraction system is so basic that a forum which knows each member wouldn't of been an issue, but for the it is now, it is.

Well Moderators can view all of a user's infractions, just as they could usernotes. The difference is that Infractions aren't automated to tally and can't be searched to see how many a user has. And infractions expire and can be appealed, whereas usernotes don't I think the infraction system is more detailed, so I disagree with you on that point, however the usernote system caused fewer problems and I would rather bring that back with some increased labor for a less confrontational forum.

This is when you need a good owner and/or general manager who can turn around to the member moaning, stick two fingers up and say "they are entitled to have an opinion much like your one now." Habbox has no reason to be 'professional,' no fansite has. Leave the professional work to the site you've based your site on. Again, management etc should just tell the member moaning about unprofessionalism to grow up and get a sense of humour.

I agree entirely We'll see about that. I'm not really sure where we left our policy of telling *certain* (not all) members where they can get off But personally I think we should bring back that way of dealing with things, much more efficient

Is this a task he has set upon himself or has the general management butted in again :rolleyes: J1MI needs to have total control and say in anything on the forum, it is afterall his department and people need to know this. He's already done a few good tasks as far as I have heard and seen, like he is in the process of hiring moderators and hopefully he was the one behind the rule changes. Can he hire administrators and super moderators, or is this something for the meddling general manager and owner to decide?

J1MI decided on that task all by himself to his credit, he took it on because he believed that it needed to be done. SMods are decided on by J1MI with Sierk and MAD, admins are sometimes discussed with the FM but I believe some administrative appointments aren't (of course AFMs are always discussed with the FM.)

I agree completely. If they do a minimal job and have more than 1 job, they should really only stick to the one job and do their utmost best to perfect their tasks. As you have said, no passion anymore. In my opinion, to the 'higher ups', the goal is to get a high-up title, and not do any good, sufficient work to prove why you got that title in the first place.

The problem is that the job isn't fun anymore, because in all honesty (I'm so going to get people angry with this) the staff members have been given the job of doing everything possible to please the members and have lost their right to have fun. Personally, I would trade off a little popularity to make sure my staff were enjoying themselves.

8F8 doesn't work here anymore so he should be kicked out ASAP, unless the general manager really cannot handle his position, which from word of mouth, he can't. I've heard 8F8 has assisted with a few things that MAD has done, or yelled at him. One of the two, maybe both

My comment was actually more of a joke than anything, 8F8 retains his permissions because of his service to Habbox. Although his opinion would bear great weight with sierk and the rest of us due to the respect we have for him, he doesn't really have a formal job, responsibility, or powers

So is Joshuar's title redundent? Perhaps an administatorial job is something he should be moved to? Adzeh shouldn't be touching the departments, only the managers. Department work is for the Department Managers and the Department Managers report back to the (A)GM with any concerns that they don't have the power to touch and assisting managers is for assistant managers And what is all things staff?

No, he still represents the International Site within the AGMs, and he also helps out with general things where he can Plus he takes care of the main Habbox site now too.

Reminds people who their roles are e.g. shouts at MAD when he touches the forum by putting and adding things which should be done by J1MI. Reminds J1MI to his job and not let anyone else do it for him other than given a few ideas from members and ask for opinions. Tells the Department Managers what their duties are etc etc. At the moment, jobs are in a tangled web, or a heap, or any other example.

Ah. Well, I don't think that anyone would be given the authority to "shout at MAD" and he technically has the right to make forum changes if he wants. But as far as Department Managers and stuff goes that's a part of Adam's job IIRC.

That is quite a leap... 500 would surely be better and because no one can buy rep anymore, it'll solve people have too high a rep power.

In all honesty, lower requirements for others and removing the rep to increase rep would balance out the problem I think.

If they do this rep hierarchy, threaten to remove it completely by a caution. New members don't have any rep power so making a new account would be pointless. And don't moderators, administrators etc have the ability to PM more than one person? Send the gang a PM asking what on earth they are doing

Its not like someone comes out and says "I'm better than you because the number next to my name is higher." Its much more implicit. The second method has been tried but I got a bunch of complaining threads about it and was told that I was apparently being too harsh :rolleyes:

Was there a poll? It's easier to find out who wants what with a poll with a simple 'yes' and 'no'. A 'don't care' option is for people who don't think. And isn't it better to take ideas into consideration from other Habbo/Forum based councils? Most just turn out to be a glorified feedback forum with members

Considering there was all support and no opposition, I figured a poll would be extraneous, but I think Catzsy may have posted one. It may become a glorified Feedback Forum, but hopefully it won't. Really what it will be is a more controlled Feedback Forum where people actually post opinions instead of "YOU IDIOTS, YOU SCREWED UP, SORT IT OUT!" Plus, I think the Council will become more of a sounding board, a screening committee if you will

And what is this manager of the help desk currently doing?

Rare Values Manager / HxHD Manager / Forum Moderator

Rare Values is a huge feature with Habbox, no wonder the help desk doesn't get the right attention... You need someone who actually has the time to run it and not have another job which is possibly one of the most important features on Habbox. No offense necessary to Immenseman, because it's not his fault he has been given two important Habbo related tasks.

A fair point, however that's why both departments have co-managers, and that's why he can handle it. IMO.

Anyhoo, surely it would be easier for you and the departments you're managing if you spread the work load? Owner of the Help Desk doesn't mean anything other than you own the room, you have a manager to run that. But Staff Editor which, reflecting on it, probably is like a Staff Role Manager, is kind of a big task along side Events Manager. You definitely do a good job with VIP Editor so I won't criticise you on that department

The roles have been spread out There are two Staff Editors. Myself and jrh2002 One on the day shift and the nocturnal one And thank you muchly Its rare to hear praise nowadays.

Then you have to take into account how many of the members are active for about 1 to 2 weeks

A fair point, but even so that would mean that those members were around for 1-2 weeks before.

Something that's crossed my mind recently is the amount of posts jrh makes saying "I wish I could change x, y and z" when he is an AGM. Surely he has the power to enforce these changes, or at the very least put the ideas forward and argue them with higher management?

Jrh, what exactly is your job?

I think that's a bit unfair to call him out like that, as it seems you're attacking him for not getting enough done or not being given enough power. In j's defense, he does champion causes he believes in, and he MAD and I have had debates about many many things over the PM system, and we have made some changes, for instance certain words were unfiltered, others were no longer infracted, certain cases are now let slide.

[GommeInc]

Well Moderators can view all of a user's infractions, just as they could usernotes. The difference is that Infractions aren't automated to tally and can't be searched to see how many a user has. And infractions expire and can be appealed, whereas usernotes don't I think the infraction system is more detailed, so I disagree with you on that point, however the usernote system caused fewer problems and I would rather bring that back with some increased labor for a less confrontational forum.

I guess that would be one problem with having usernotes. Unless they can be edited when the usernote was based on false claims. But I suppose than one issue with usernotes isn't anything compared to the issues of the infraction system. Perhaps when Habbox Forum has a few more moderators and is a little bit more organised, you could trial the usernotes system and see what the staff think and remind them that they shouldn't pick the infraction system because they know how to use it

I agree entirely We'll see about that. I'm not really sure where we left our policy of telling *certain* (not all) members where they can get off But personally I think we should bring back that way of dealing with things, much more efficient

Bear in mind that you probably should have a limit and have a bit of reason for firing back at the member, otherwise there would be trouble

J1MI decided on that task all by himself to his credit, he took it on because he believed that it needed to be done. SMods are decided on by J1MI with Sierk and MAD, admins are sometimes discussed with the FM but I believe some administrative appointments aren't (of course AFMs are always discussed with the FM.)

Surely J1MI has grown into his boots now and can manage the task of hiring administators? To save them destroying a forum if they ever turn rogue, give them limited access which I know you can do on IPB forums, not sure about vBulletins though. It depends who owns the forum though, they deserve a say in the matter. I wouldn't think a GM would need a say in hiring administators, not when AGMs can't which is like a watered down GM.

The problem is that the job isn't fun anymore, because in all honesty (I'm so going to get people angry with this) the staff members have been given the job of doing everything possible to please the members and have lost their right to have fun. Personally, I would trade off a little popularity to make sure my staff were enjoying themselves.

It depends what their jobs are and how many people have the same job. What needs to be done is to hire a few more staff members on each department, if possible and needed, to relax the tension and share the word load around. I've noticed News Reporters have shrunk in size, and I can personally say news reporting is a very dull task Alot seems to be expected of them and being volunteers, it's hard.

My comment was actually more of a joke than anything, 8F8 retains his permissions because of his service to Habbox. Although his opinion would bear great weight with sierk and the rest of us due to the respect we have for him, he doesn't really have a formal job, responsibility, or powers

I noticed he fully resigned and joking doesn't pick up on radar

No, he still represents the International Site within the AGMs, and he also helps out with general things where he can Plus he takes care of the main Habbox site now too.

As content manager, which really is the only real claim to being an AGM when you think about. Content Manager is a big job for a big site and he pretty much controls everything content wise (or should do). No one really should help out where they can, because what they are helping with should be dealt with someone else. Like anything news related should be with the news manager etc etc.

Ah. Well, I don't think that anyone would be given the authority to "shout at MAD" and he technically has the right to make forum changes if he wants. But as far as Department Managers and stuff goes that's a part of Adam's job IIRC.

Even though it goes against J1MI job and possibly tasks? MAD should have little say in what goes on in the forum, J1MI should have the last and final say because it is his department. Otherwise he would be a forum technician

Its not like someone comes out and says "I'm better than you because the number next to my name is higher." Its much more implicit. The second method has been tried but I got a bunch of complaining threads about it and was told that I was apparently being too harsh :rolleyes:

Then you tell them they shouldn't act immature and think so highly of rep. If they complain further, remove 100 rep points each time they make a new thread or a comment which you would consider rude That'll shut them up.

Considering there was all support and no opposition, I figured a poll would be extraneous, but I think Catzsy may have posted one. It may become a glorified Feedback Forum, but hopefully it won't. Really what it will be is a more controlled Feedback Forum where people actually post opinions instead of "YOU IDIOTS, YOU SCREWED UP, SORT IT OUT!" Plus, I think the Council will become more of a sounding board, a screening committee if you will

You'll probably get people saying "YOU IDIOTS..." anyway, but you may aswell trial it. I just think it's a big department to take on board when so many other problems need to be leveled out.

A fair point, however that's why both departments have co-managers, and that's why he can handle it. IMO.

I'm sure I noticed a few issues with Habbox's Trade Values, quite serious ones at that. If the co-managers do more work, surely they should be the manager? And I've not noticed alot of activity from HxHD when I log on, or heard of any help desk events if they still exist? Surely something is wrong? Granted, help desks seem to be coming slowly extinct.

The roles have been spread out There are two Staff Editors. Myself and jrh2002 One on the day shift and the nocturnal one And thank you muchly Its rare to hear praise nowadays.

Hmmm, well if you say you can manage it then there's no harm in that. If then events department all of a sudden blossoms then maybe it will become a task to be the manager, but we'll ahve to wait and see

A fair point, but even so that would mean that those members were around for 1-2 weeks before.

True, but that if they have made the 1-2 weeks. They may have got bored in-between

[The Professor]

I think that's a bit unfair to call him out like that, as it seems you're attacking him for not getting enough done or not being given enough power. In j's defense, he does champion causes he believes in, and he MAD and I have had debates about many many things over the PM system, and we have made some changes, for instance certain words were unfiltered, others were no longer infracted, certain cases are now let slide.

I apologise if it came across as an attack, it wasn't.

In response to j's post, on the contrary, I commend you for publicly displaying your opinion. However, it confused me that you usually have some form of "I wish I could" in your post when you are one of the highest up in the hierarchy. Coupled with the fact that if you are doing anything, we can't see it because it is private, it gives the impression that you have a high up job but not a lot of influence over decisions

I know my thought process anyway

[GommeInc]

I understand what you mean! Because he is an AGM, it means he should have a strong say in any matter, yet from what he said, he only deals with staff issues and rules, which isn't exactly AGM standard...

EDIT: Typed a bit fast there, mistakes edited

[Adzeh]

I understand what you mean! Because he is an AGM, it means he should have a strong say in any matter, yet from what he said, he only deals with staff issues and rules, which isn't exactly AGM standard...

EDIT: Typed a bit fast there, mistakes edited

Each AGM has a specific role to focus on within Habbox; having a structure with our jobs lets us get more done. Jrh and Nvr are involved in all staff issues and the rules, but nvr is also responsible for VIPs. I am responsible for departmental success and Joshuar is responsible for Habbox International.

Jrh said that he deals with staff and rules, but it doesn't mean that he cannot post in other threads. More to the point, I guarantee you that 75% of complaints and feedback threads will have some sort of input by him.

Just because we are AGMs, doesn't mean we always have to have a strong opinion on things .