iPhone - Good idea? [Closes 10/02/07]

[HUGECOOL]

I was generalising the whole, chunky MP3 players. Do they have an actual name? Because the orignal MP3 player was like a Memory Stick you just put in the PC.

Yes, they're called hard drive-based media players, which Creative was among the first to make.

What events? The Zune is hardly anything to make people lose trust? They're not that bad are they

"Antitrust laws, or competition laws, are laws which prohibit anti-competitive behavior and unfair business practices. The laws make illegal certain practices deemed to hurt businesses or consumers or both, or generally to violate standards of ethical behavior."

Because Microsoft employees were not speaking well of a company's products, they're facing an antitrust class action. The source I gave you previously stated this. ;/

Considering someone just generalised the whole Mac updating times, it gives me a rough idea how often they update. I am guessing from 1 month to a week "/ You seem to have mis-read what I wrote, I said old and obsolete. Updates get old and a better one comes along to replace, which is why Windows gets its updates still

So if Macs get updates, how would that be different than Windows being updated? "/ It isn't. And wth? Any update that has already been processed by users becomes old and obsolete in any operating system. "/ You're just creating issues that don't even exist. Oh, and 'rough ideas' aren't factual so you can't base your evidence on them, especially not in debates.

iPods are easy to fix, Apple gives them away like ice-cream on a very hot day at the beach. When your iPod is broken, you send away for a new one and get a replacement. They give them away so easily because they're so cheap to make. I think having your iPod stolen is also covered by this warranty.

So how will the iPhone be any different? It costs around $300 to manufacture and all Apple products come with a 1-year warranty which can be extended. Again, you're creating issues out of non-issues. And how do you know iPods are easy to fix? "/

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, my friend

Is it? That explains why you haven't mastered it yet. But I digress..

With a phone you need one finger, with the iPhone you need 2 which longate the browsing time to get to a certain menu you want.

Thanks for traveling to the future, trying out an iPhone, and explaining to me how many digits one takes to operate. "/

You only use one finger to operate the phone. Having a touch screen doesn't mean it requires more digits to operate. It's basically a regular phone with flat buttons that interact upon touch as opposed to pushing, so how do you need more fingers to operate the iPhone? "/ And all the videos I've seen with the iPhone, the user operates the phone with one finger, and two when resizing pictures. See, maybe if you'd base your responses on factual evidence rather than 'rough ideas', you'd see how silly your comments sound even though you've deluded yourself into thinking they make sense.

No I am certain you only need one finger to push 1 button. With the iPhone, you need to to browse around it, looking at the videos. This argument came from ages ago in the thread saying the iPhone is easy to use and fast to browse.

Read previous statement. And unless a phone requires the user to input a multi-button action to execute something, you don't need more than 1 finger. "/

No but I can name a phone which has more size eating things. The Sony Ericsson has a bigger, powerful camera, loads of applications, a huge system which allows you to use more than one application at a time, like using more than one window at a time on a PC. And you are obviously wanting the answer to be "I can't think of any", mainly because there is no touch-screen phone on the marker till February when one of the other companies touch-screen phone comes out "

Size-eating things? At least you have the terminology down. "/ And yes, the answer is "I can't think of any" because there are no phones with multi-touch screens. Sure, there are regular touch-screen phones, but that technology is inferior compared to iPhones multi-touch feature.

Because it would be interesting to know. Looking at the size of it, a trouser pocket would be the last place to put it "/ Too wide and long, it's like flat PDA. Flat being another problem, when you sit down it would get so squished as your trousers tighter around your hips that there is a possiblity of it snapping.

And unless you like wearing really tight pants, I doubt a phone can snap in your pocket. :/ I had a Motorola razr which is very thin and nothing happened to it when I sat down, stood up, ran, or any other action that would likely cause a mobile device to snap according to your logic. oO

Strange, my Zen has never needed an update nor asked for one, neither has my Sony Ericsson Phone, or my other Zen MP3 player which is over a year old? Maybe it's because it isn't prown to software crashes like Apple flimsy technology. And you moan about me making up stories, tisk tisk.

lol Too bad I'm not making anything up. Zen players also need updates. If you chose not to update it, well, that's your choice, but being ignorating on firmware updates doesn't mean everyone else's media player is flimsy because they had updates. ;/ I can choose not to update my iPod as well, but that doesn't mean everyone else's is flawed because they had updates. "/

I suppose you're not aware your Zen too needs update. Heres an interesting one. It removes FM radio recording capabilities, lol. Enjoy.

http://forums.creative.com/creativel...sage.id=164368
and another
http://us.creative.com/support/downl...ype=4&x=13&y=6
and another
http://us.creative.com/support/downloads/download.asp?MainCategory=213&nRegionFK=&nCountryF K=&nLanguageFK=&sOSName=Windows+XP&region=1&Produc t_Name=ZEN+Vision%3AM+30GB&Product_ID=16002&modeln umber=&driverlang=1033&OS=10&drivertype=4&x=14&y=2 0
and so on.

Maybe if you had the common sense to visit the manufacturer's website before replying, you'd know better. "/

http://us.creative.com/support/downloads/ <- All firmware updates can be accessed here.

[GommeInc]

Yes, they're called hard drive-based media players, which Creative was among the first to make.

I can see why they just call them an MP3 player

"Antitrust laws, or competition laws, are laws which prohibit anti-competitive behavior and unfair business practices. The laws make illegal certain practices deemed to hurt businesses or consumers or both, or generally to violate standards of ethical behavior."

Because Microsoft employees were not speaking well of a company's products, they're facing an antitrust class action. The source I gave you previously stated this. ;/

Hmmmm, I see. I don't particularly like the Zune, and they're kinda irrelevant to this argument aswell, you just added the argument about the Zune randomly when we were talking about other MP3 players. You stated that Microsoft were not too keen.

So if Macs get updates, how would that be different than Windows being updated? "/ It isn't. And wth? Any update that has already been processed by users becomes old and obsolete in any operating system. "/ You're just creating issues that don't even exist. Oh, and 'rough ideas' aren't factual so you can't base your evidence on them, especially not in debates.

Again, you start a pointless argument without reading what I've said. Windows gets about as many updates as Macs, I never properly stated this because I thought it was obvious :rolleyes:

That argument has gone from Macs getting loads of updates and Windows not getting alot to Macs and Windows getting roughly the same amount. Windows pretty much have a smooth running system, which Vista will improve to make even stronger.

Macs have a different system which doesn't make everything viewable to the user, which means Viruses pretty much go straight through them. That's why people never bother making viruses for a Mac, there useless really for that. While a Windows system is open source, so everything is viewable to a user, which is where a virus creator comes along.

If a Windows system was the same as a Macs system, there would be big changes in this world. Mainly computer databases being non-existent and businesses being harder to run.

So how will the iPhone be any different? It costs around $300 to manufacture and all Apple products come with a 1-year warranty which can be extended. Again, you're creating issues out of non-issues. And how do you know iPods are easy to fix? "/

The iPhone won't be any different, that's the problem Apple seem to think it is the first phone to have a camera, touch-screen and MP3 player. They also brag about it being 5 years ahead. Looking at all the evidence of other phones, one being released next month, they're about as far a head as any other company that is making their own phones. I would probably say they're a bit behind really, considering most this technology is old. Having an MP3 player and browser on a phone is hardly anything now, they come as standard. The only thing they had to brag about been done and thought of way before them "/

I wouldn't say they get fixed really. Once your iPod has crashed and locked, you send it away and get a new one, it is probably chucked away, they don't cost alot to make, apparently.

Is it? That explains why you haven't mastered it yet. But I digress..

I don't waste time using sarcasm, it makes you seem deceptively arrogant and clever

Thanks for traveling to the future, trying out an iPhone, and explaining to me how many digits one takes to operate. "/

I never needed to, I saw a video

You only use one finger to operate the phone. Having a touch screen doesn't mean it requires more digits to operate. It's basically a regular phone with flat buttons that interact upon touch as opposed to pushing, so how do you need more fingers to operate the iPhone? "/

In one of the videos of the iPhone, he uses 2 fingers to rotate the image on screen. Surely you can just use one finger by a touch-senstive area in on corner?

And all the videos I've seen with the iPhone, the user operates the phone with one finger, and two when resizing pictures. See, maybe if you'd base your responses on factual evidence rather than 'rough ideas', you'd see how silly your comments sound even though you've deluded yourself into thinking they make sense.

You do realise there are hundreds of videos on the internet about the iPhone? And as you said, they do use 2 fingers "/ If they designed it with some thought, they could of made it with one finger to resize an image, like you would with a mouse pointer on a computer...

Read previous statement. And unless a phone requires the user to input a multi-button action to execute something, you don't need more than 1 finger. "/

You seem to have the habit of taking what I've said and blowing it out of proportion. I never meant for it to say two fingers for everything, you just made yourself believe I said that so you could make yourself seem clever, again...

I also think using two fingers would just make it more fiddly. Say, your index finger and middle finger. They're not the most accurate fingers to use for stuff like this. So if you resize with those 2, you may resize your image badly "/ Again, with thought, this could be possible with just the one finger.

Size-eating things? At least you have the terminology down. "/ And yes, the answer is "I can't think of any" because there are no phones with multi-touch screens. Sure, there are regular touch-screen phones, but that technology is inferior compared to iPhones multi-touch feature.

Considering it was late last night, I didn't expect myself to pick out a big word to jot down. Besides, terminology is not always needed. Unless, you're not clever enough to understand what I meant.

What I meant to say was, there are phones out there that are smaller can have alot of applications stuffed inside them. And yes there is a phone out there that [i]does[/b] have a multi-touch screen. Coming out in February.

The PRADA Phone by LG will be available with prices starting from 600 Euros in mobile dealerships as well as selected PRADA stores in the UK, France, Germany and Italy as of late February, 2007, followed by countries in Asia such as Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore from late March, 2007. The Korean version of the phone is scheduled to launch in the second quarter of 2007.

This phone has multi-tasking capabilities which isn't new, loads of Sony phones have them. I don't actually think Apple has this on the iPhone, and because it is so big and magnificent, you would need this really "/

Here's the source: http://www.lge.com/about/press_release/detail/PRO|NEWS%5EPRE|MENU_20328_PRE|MENU.jhtml

Now a different phone, from the makers of the touchpad on laptops and notebooks:

http://news.com.com/1606-12994-6150132.html

Personally, I find this phone more impressive, shame it's a bit big. It has a sat nav, which Apple doesn't have, drag and drop actions, another thing Apple doesn't appear to have on their phone, and multiple windows, which the iPhone also doesn't have. Although this is a concept phone, the end result may look different, but considering only what it has, it is more impressive "/

So this phone out does the iPhone too "/ With a sat nav and drag and drop actions, which the iPhone appears to not have. Not as impressive now, is it? "/



So it's like fitting half a CD case in your pocket? Wow, that's impressive, so it's not really a pocket media device then? Carrying it in a bag just makes it less convenient, especially when it is on vibrate and you don't feel or hear it "/

Oops, I did the sarcasm bit in that comment :rolleyes:

And unless you like wearing really tight pants, I doubt a phone can snap in your pocket. :/ I had a Motorola razr which is very thin and nothing happened to it when I sat down, stood up, ran, or any other action that would likely cause a mobile device to snap according to your logic. oO

An iPhone is just one surface while a Motorola razr is a flip with 2 surfaces, so it is more durable "/ There is a chance of it snapping or having too much pressure put on it that does damage internally to it. I'm not saying it will always snap etc when you do such activities, but you seem to like playing the assume and blow out of proportion game.

Anyone with logic would know what I meant, they wouldn't need exact details, because if you have a brain, you might aswell use it to figure things out.

lol Too bad I'm not making anything up. Zen players also need updates. If you chose not to update it, well, that's your choice, but being ignorating on firmware updates doesn't mean everyone else's media player is flimsy because they had updates. ;/ I can choose not to update my iPod as well, but that doesn't mean everyone else's is flawed because they had updates. "/

Mine seems to working perfectly well, as is my friends Zen and my other friends Zen.

I suppose you're not aware your Zen too needs update. Heres an interesting one. It removes FM radio recording capabilities, lol. Enjoy.

Is removing FM capabilities really an update? Sounds like a downgrade to me

As stated above, mine is working perfectly well. The only time you need to get an update (according to tech support from Creative), is when the software in your Zen becomes corrupt after a dodgy installion or connection to your PC.

[HUGECOOL]

Hmmmm, I see. I don't particularly like the Zune, and they're kinda irrelevant to this argument aswell, you just added the argument about the Zune randomly when we were talking about other MP3 players. You stated that Microsoft were not too keen.

Nope, you don't see, because you still didn't get it. ;l

Microsoft faced an antitrust trial because of the things certain employees said about Creative's and Dell's media players back in 2003. This is a quote from the email;

"I have to tell you my experience with our software and this device Creative's Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra is really terrible," Allchin wrote in a Nov. 13, 2003, e-mail. "Apple is just so far ahead. How can we get the [independent hardware vendors] to create something that is competitive with the iPod? I looked at the Dell system and that is not close either."

Because of that, Microsoft decided to make their own product which was announced in 2006- the Zune. And even so, the Zune has not yet impacted the mainstream at all. So the Zune is relevant to the argument even though you're not really comprehending my post. "/

Again, you start a pointless argument without reading what I've said. Windows gets about as many updates as Macs, I never properly stated this because I thought it was obvious

That argument has gone from Macs getting loads of updates and Windows not getting alot to Macs and Windows getting roughly the same amount. Windows pretty much have a smooth running system, which Vista will improve to make even stronger.

Macs have a different system which doesn't make everything viewable to the user, which means Viruses pretty much go straight through them. That's why people never bother making viruses for a Mac, there useless really for that. While a Windows system is open source, so everything is viewable to a user, which is where a virus creator comes along.

If a Windows system was the same as a Macs system, there would be big changes in this world. Mainly computer databases being non-existent and businesses being harder to run.

Pointless arguement? This coming form someone pointing out sarcasm? oh, that's brilliant- start moaning about the conversation going off track and you derail it even more. Very nice. I don't have the time nor the want to start an argument on operating systems, their capabilities, flaws, and anything else that you think you know so much about. "/

So, here, take a look at this website that provides an unbiased comparison between both operating systems out of the box and juxtaposes the experience. http://www.xvsxp.com/finalscore/index.php (oh, and OS X wins btw. No surprise there.)

Your arguments are moot. Seriously. You don't even know what you're talking about let alone hold an argument about the topic. "/. You're basically saying that because Windows is 'open source' (even though it isn't. Open source usually means you can acquire the product free of charge. "/) its a haven for virus creators because it allows a user to modify their system. So how is that good? And it doesn't matter if viruses download on a Mac- the virus is unable to execute anyway. "/ (.exe files or other windows-related viruses basically stay there wasting space, assuming the virus doesn't function on Unix-based platforms, which is like 95% of the time.)

The iPhone won't be any different, that's the problem Apple seem to think it is the first phone to have a camera, touch-screen and MP3 player. They also brag about it being 5 years ahead. Looking at all the evidence of other phones, one being released next month, they're about as far a head as any other company that is making their own phones. I would probably say they're a bit behind really, considering most this technology is old. Having an MP3 player and browser on a phone is hardly anything now, they come as standard. The only thing they had to brag about been done and thought of way before them "/

The iPhone won't be any different than what? And you still don't it, or understand how the touch screen is different. Let me explain it as simple as possible because apparetly any other way seems to be futile;
The way current-day ideas were implemented on the iPhone is what Apple is talking about. IMPLEMENTED. Camera- they didn't even mention the camera, even though its there. Touch Screen- The touch screen technology behind the iPhone IS new- NEW being keyword. MP3 Player- What Apple is saying is that current-day MP3 player phones are primitive compared to theirs. Why? Because the iPhone's Mp3 player is an iPod- a device that has already proved to be popular and easy to use. Browsers aren't new, but the Safari browser is radically more improved than traditional phone browsers. So, even though other phones already have these capabilities, the iPhone will offer them in a more improved manner.

I don't waste time using sarcasm, it makes you seem deceptively arrogant and clever

Of course you don't waste your time using sarcasm- you're too busy wasting your time posting pointless comments in hopes of sounding smart- and failing miserably. "/

I never needed to, I saw a video
In one of the videos of the iPhone, he uses 2 fingers to rotate the image on screen. Surely you can just use one finger by a touch-senstive area in on corner?
You do realise there are hundreds of videos on the internet about the iPhone? And as you said, they do use 2 fingers "/ If they designed it with some thought, they could of made it with one finger to resize an image, like you would with a mouse pointer on a computer...

You seem to have the habit of taking what I've said and blowing it out of proportion. I never meant for it to say two fingers for everything, you just made yourself believe I said that so you could make yourself seem clever, again...

I also think using two fingers would just make it more fiddly. Say, your index finger and middle finger. They're not the most accurate fingers to use for stuff like this. So if you resize with those 2, you may resize your image badly "/ Again, with thought, this could be possible with just the one finger.

Yes, you can, and it would also limit that functionality. On the iPhone, you interact with the phone's screen while zooming in or out on pictures which makes for looking at pictures a smoother experience. Its better to to be resizing and moving around the picture at the same time than to continuously tap a + or - every time you needed to zoom in or out. "/ And I already mentioned that using two fingers was the only time the phone needed the user to provide a two-finger input. And being designed with thought would mean imitating a gesture already available on a computer? So by your logic, a new idea must be derived from something already in existence. "/

And no, I don't blow anything out of proportion. Next time, explain yourself in a way that others understand you, not how you would understand yourself. And if you resize the image 'badly', then another simple movement is all it takes to make it normal again- resizing the space between your indes finger and thumb. I don't think anything is simpler than that. And repeatedly tapping an icon to resize a picture would just be annoying since you use your fingers, not a stylus.

Considering it was late last night, I didn't expect myself to pick out a big word to jot down. Besides, terminology is not always needed. Unless, you're not clever enough to understand what I meant.

Of course not, by your standards, you'd refer to objects as 'things' that do 'stuff' with other 'things'. And 'big words' aren't needed. Use technical terms for technical arguments.

What I meant to say was, there are phones out there that are smaller can have alot of applications stuffed inside them. And yes there is a phone out there that [i]does[/b] have a multi-touch screen. Coming out in February.

'Applications stuffed inside them'? What's the excuse now- too early in the morning? :rolleyes: Anyway..

The Prada phone does not have multi-touch. It has an advanced touch-screen, meaning its a regular touch-screen that will improve in things previous touch-screens performed poorly in. And 'application-stuffed' phones don't make them any better than a phone with few applications. Its the way the applications are implemented that make or break a phone.

This phone has multi-tasking capabilities which isn't new, loads of Sony phones have them. I don't actually think Apple has this on the iPhone, and because it is so big and magnificent, you would need this really "/

Here's the source: http://www.lge.com/about/press_release/detail/PRO|NEWS%5EPRE|MENU_20328_PRE|MENU.jhtml

lol multi-tasking for IMs, is what the website says. Pretty much any phone has that. It basically allows you to be conversing in an instant messenger and going away to do other things (ie-phone calls etc). The iPhone has that too. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that it didn't.

Now a different phone, from the makers of the touchpad on laptops and notebooks:

http://news.com.com/1606-12994-6150132.html

Personally, I find this phone more impressive, shame it's a bit big. It has a sat nav, which Apple doesn't have, drag and drop actions, another thing Apple doesn't appear to have on their phone, and multiple windows, which the iPhone also doesn't have. Although this is a concept phone, the end result may look different, but considering only what it has, it is more impressive "/
So this phone out does the iPhone too "/ With a sat nav and drag and drop actions, which the iPhone appears to not have. Not as impressive now, is it? "/

Nope, iPhone lacks GPS, then again so do many other phones. Drag and drop is useless in the iPhone- why would it have a technology that it won't even utilize? "/ The iPhone also doesn't use windows, so that would logically not be there. Basically, you listed technologies that phone had that weren't needed on the iPhone even though they'd be pointless on it. It's like if I were to say why the Synaptics phone doesn't include Google Maps, multi-touch, visual voice mail, integrated iPod music player, and other technologies that are mostly iPhone proprietary. And actually, the iPhone just looked a hundred times better after viewing that phone.

So it's like fitting half a CD case in your pocket? Wow, that's impressive, so it's not really a pocket media device then? Carrying it in a bag just makes it less convenient, especially when it is on vibrate and you don't feel or hear it "/

Oops, I did the sarcasm bit in that comment

Heres another comparison- one you might relate to; The iPhone and the Zen Vision:M



The iPhone just got smaller.

Oh, that was sarcasm? Warn me next time, eh?

An iPhone is just one surface while a Motorola razr is a flip with 2 surfaces, so it is more durable "/ There is a chance of it snapping or having too much pressure put on it that does damage internally to it. I'm not saying it will always snap etc when you do such activities, but you seem to like playing the assume and blow out of proportion game.

Anyone with logic would know what I meant, they wouldn't need exact details, because if you have a brain, you might aswell use it to figure things out.

How the hell is a razr more durable than the iPhone?? Flip phones are notorious for breaking in half because they're flip phones. Candybar style phones do not, which is what the iPhone is and which is why majority of smartphones are candybar styled as well. And unless you're applying a significant amount of force upon the phone (ie- attempting to break it with your hands), it is very unlikely to break. iPod Videos are thinner than the iPhone and guess what- they don't break in half! Fascinating, don't you think? :rolleyes:

Mine seems to working perfectly well, as is my friends Zen and my other friends Zen.

Wonderful, three Zens represent all Creative media players in the world. And none of the owners practice common sense maintenance on their devices.

Is removing FM capabilities really an update? Sounds like a downgrade to me

As stated above, mine is working perfectly well. The only time you need to get an update (according to tech support from Creative), is when the software in your Zen becomes corrupt after a dodgy installion or connection to your PC.

That's because it was a downgrade included in an upgrade. While many features were enhanced, FM recording was removed.

Uhm, no. Firmware updates are freely available to install whenever they appear on the Creative Labs website. Unlike Apple which announces updates, Creative does not, therefore they go unnoticed. That doesn't mean your Zen doesn't need a firmware update. Just that you don't know how to properly maintain a device that requires updates. "/

[VINTAGE]

dunno if anyone has sed this but i cba reading all the things..i would buy it sounds pretty good and cheap for tht i tink bt if its anything like ipods which break every 10 mins forget it

[<3]

Yah, love it, pre-ordered one already :]

[adamorcharlie]

bad idea... apple will take over the world with a lil help from tesco

[Desjardens]

If it wasn't on AT&T I would think about it. I have a Telus phone, and my affiliate in the US is Sprint/Nextel. So I can't get it.

[Eye!]

Its awsome I have seen them, best phone in existance! Apple should do whatever they are good at and boy they make one phat phone!

[GommeInc]

"I have to tell you my experience with our software and this device Creative's Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra is really terrible," Allchin wrote in a Nov. 13, 2003, e-mail. "Apple is just so far ahead. How can we get the [independent hardware vendors] to create something that is competitive with the iPod? I looked at the Dell system and that is not close either."

Obviously Allchin has a deranged mind to not realise that iPods are backed by a huge company, bigger than Creative and Sony that will obviously over advertise, exaggerate and distribute the wonders of an iPod. Personally, though experience, they're crap in comparison "/

Because of that, Microsoft decided to make their own product which was announced in 2006- the Zune. And even so, the Zune has not yet impacted the mainstream at all. So the Zune is relevant to the argument even though you're not really comprehending my post. "/

I see, we were orginally talking about companies that manufacteured MP3 players like Creative and Sony, which brought them out roughly the same time as the iPod, although some released them before the iPod. Obviously, the Zune would be crap, it is a new thing in a new market, you don't even need to study markets to know that "/

Pointless arguement? This coming form someone pointing out sarcasm? oh, that's brilliant- start moaning about the conversation going off track and you derail it even more. Very nice. I don't have the time nor the want to start an argument on operating systems, their capabilities, flaws, and anything else that you think you know so much about. "/

It went off track ages ago, might aswell make it worse and I hardly point it out, I was merely making an off-topic comment about it, but you seem not to realise that. You argue you don't want to argue about operating systems, yet you do it anyway. Looking for an argument really...

It's pretty obvious looking at that site which compares th two, so you completely destroyed your argument here.

So, here, take a look at this website that provides an unbiased comparison between both operating systems out of the box and juxtaposes the experience. http://www.xvsxp.com/finalscore/index.php (oh, and OS X wins btw. No surprise there.)

Hmmm, Windows aren;t as bad comapred to Apple as I imagined. Windows blow Apple out of the competition in certain areas, and only slightly do worse where Apple are best at...

And Apple praise their video editting in ads, yet looking at this source you provided, they're pretty crap "/ Apple Macs don't come with any video editting/making programs "/

Your arguments are moot. Seriously. You don't even know what you're talking about let alone hold an argument about the topic. "/.

Yet I have a criticism for nearly all your responses and correct information which you innocently try to ignore? Most of my answers are common sense, but you seem to deploy logic which is trying defy physics. Like fitting half a CD case in your pocket and call the iPhone solid...

You're basically saying that because Windows is 'open source' (even though it isn't. Open source usually means you can acquire the product free of charge. "/) its a haven for virus creators because it allows a user to modify their system. So how is that good?

Obviously it isn't good? BUT, because the Windows system allows users to do pretty much what they want with it, also leaves it open for others. You cannot fix this.

And it doesn't matter if viruses download on a Mac- the virus is unable to execute anyway. "/ (.exe files or other windows-related viruses basically stay there wasting space, assuming the virus doesn't function on Unix-based platforms, which is like 95% of the time.)

I don't know much about .exe programs, but judging by what you've said, if a Mac doesn't use .exe files, they're not that good "/ Loads of programs out there are .exe, which is probably why people argue that the Mac isn't a good system which offers lot of programs.

The iPhone won't be any different than what? And you still don't it, or understand how the touch screen is different.

If you bothered looking at the videos and information and reviews on the iPhone, you'll notice all Apple do is brag about the amazing touch screen and how it is impliment, apparently "differently" than anything else in the world. The fact you can't really impliment a touch screen any different is out of question with them. Unless they have made it so you HAVE to use your toes?

The way current-day ideas were implemented on the iPhone is what Apple is talking about. IMPLEMENTED.

Read the statement above, you cannot implement it any differently than any other multi-touch pad "/ The technology is new, yes, but Apple aren't the first to use it, which they strongly hint they have.

Camera- they didn't even mention the camera, even though its there.

Which is only 2 mega pixels, which means the quality won't be that good anyway.

Touch Screen- The touch screen technology behind the iPhone IS new- NEW being keyword.

Yes, it is NEW, clever boy. When did I say it was ancient?

MP3 Player- What Apple is saying is that current-day MP3 player phones are primitive compared to theirs. Why? Because the iPhone's Mp3 player is an iPod- a device that has already proved to be popular and easy to use.

Primitive? Hardly... Sony is #1 with their quality of sound "/ iPod is 3rd.

They're also not easy to use. No off button, you get off buttons on every other MP3 player, you have to hold the Menu button, hardly easy to find out really "/ Although it is popular, it doesn't mean it is the best. As stated, Sony won the quality of sound out of aload of devices. This isn't a biased comment either, considering I have a Creative :rolleyes:

Browsers aren't new, but the Safari browser is radically more improved than traditional phone browsers. So, even though other phones already have these capabilities, the iPhone will offer them in a more improved manner.

This is true, I agree. But internet on phones isn't used as often as you would seem. It costs which is the problem. Although I can see phones being created that connect to Wireless Networks. Some may already do.

Of course you don't waste your time using sarcasm- you're too busy wasting your time posting pointless comments in hopes of sounding smart- and failing miserably. "/

Consider it's an opinionated argument, and there is no right or wrong answer "/ And pointless? Half the things I have posted are pretty obvious. Just look at the iPhone and compare, you've even failed yourself trying to make a proper come back by providing proof which I also benefit from "/

Yes, you can, and it would also limit that functionality. On the iPhone, you interact with the phone's screen while zooming in or out on pictures which makes for looking at pictures a smoother experience. Its better to to be resizing and moving around the picture at the same time than to continuously tap a + or - every time you needed to zoom in or out. "/ And I already mentioned that using two fingers was the only time the phone needed the user to provide a two-finger input.

As mentioned below, all you need to do is hold one corner and drag it into itself to make the image smaller or create a crop window and so on. Looking at the link you provided, the iPhones photo editting is probably going to be about as crap as it is on the Mac. So it wouldn't surprised me if editted a photo is about as simple and useless. While with phones that have Photo Editted suites, you can crop with only a few clicks of a button. 2 minimum and the maximum is how close you zoom in.

And being designed with thought would mean imitating a gesture already available on a computer? So by your logic, a new idea must be derived from something already in existence. "/

Consider most ideas are taken from something already in existence. The iPhone hasn't done anything new really. The touch screen on the iPhone is just a connection of ideas leading up to the final conclusion.

Touch pad > only a single output > make it multiple > Multi-touch pad. The touch screen just originates from a something touch sensitive "/ Which is what this whole argument is about. The iPhone is using an idea and have advanced on it, unless they just copied it off another company, which is likely.

If the iPhone created the whole touch-sensitive technology, then it would be amazing, but they didn't...

And no, I don't blow anything out of proportion. Next time, explain yourself in a way that others understand you, not how you would understand yourself.

You must be pretty low witted to not understand. Use your common sense, if I was talking about 2 fingers being used to manipulate a tool on the iPhone and you've seen videos of the iPhone in action, you should be able to build your own conclusion that I mean only certain tools. Not all of them. Use your brain, it's what it's there for :rolleyes:

And if you resize the image 'badly', then another simple movement is all it takes to make it normal again- resizing the space between your indes finger and thumb.

This isn't good enough really. You may want to edit images as fast as possible without the problem of error. And Using your thumb on the iPhone would be a problem, considering you would probably tough the screen with your thumb nail which could sratch the screen or just make things more difficult "/

I don't think anything is simpler than that. And repeatedly tapping an icon to resize a picture would just be annoying since you use your fingers, not a stylus.

Yes, like how you would resize an image on a PC and possibly Mac, but taking hold of one corner and pulling it into itself or the opposite, to make the image big.

Of course not, by your standards, you'd refer to objects as 'things' that do 'stuff' with other 'things'. And 'big words' aren't needed. Use technical terms for technical arguments.

Objects aren't things that do stuff with things, isn't that describing interaction? When a 'thing' that does stuff with another 'thing?'

I've never seen the point in using huge words when smaller words will suffice "/ As long as you can understand, then it is perfectly alright.

'Applications stuffed inside them'? What's the excuse now- too early in the morning? :rolleyes: Anyway..

There really isn't an exact term for what I am trying to describe "/ Besides, does it matter? Not really no, you're just trying to find a petty excuse for an argument, really.

The Prada phone does not have multi-touch. It has an advanced touch-screen, meaning its a regular touch-screen that will improve in things previous touch-screens performed poorly in.

Still new technology at the end of the day "/ While the iPhone is released in June, there is still a phone out on the market which has thrown away it's buttons and has gone for a touch screen.

And 'application-stuffed' phones don't make them any better than a phone with few applications. Its the way the applications are implemented that make or break a phone.

Surely more applications is better than few applications? Self-explanatory really "/ More applications, more choice... You don't relly get huge multi-tasking technology in phones, more chance of something going wrong.

lol multi-tasking for IMs, is what the website says. Pretty much any phone has that. It basically allows you to be conversing in an instant messenger and going away to do other things (ie-phone calls etc). The iPhone has that too. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that it didn't.

Obviously every phone mutes the music when a phone call is happening. I guess I must explain further. You could have, for example: Your message inbox open, internet browser open, MP3 player open and a game running. With the "Running Applications" menu, you can simultaniously swap between them, without having the close an application. Looking at the iPhone information, it doesn't appear to have this. Obviously it would mute/turn off the music when a phone call comes through, if it didn't, it would be a pretty rubbish phone

Nope, iPhone lacks GPS, then again so do many other phones. Drag and drop is useless in the iPhone- why would it have a technology that it won't even utilize? "/

It has a maps setting, it may aswell take that extra step and have GPS, then you can get rid of that old sat nav in your car. And drag and drop would be very useful with the iPhone, you could create play lists by dragging songs into a Playlist etc. It seems more impressive than pushing areas saying "Add to playlist" which you seem to of said was useless if the iPod had areas that zoomed in and out of images. So your statement is a bit hypocritical really "/

The iPhone also doesn't use windows, so that would logically not be there. Basically, you listed technologies that phone had that weren't needed on the iPhone even though they'd be pointless on it.

Well considering they are trying to be better than any other phone (if you listened to the CEO speech), they may aswell. Some phones like the Sony Ericsson has a "Running Application" setting, which means you can start one application and view an old one. Like going on the internet while having text messages up. This would be useful in the iPhone, you can go on Maps while having Notes up.[/quote]

I just read the Apple website, I like how they list notes and addresses as an iPhone feature. Any phone can have that, it seems a bit pointless listing that. It just looks like they're showing off a new phone to an audience new to phones "/ Even though stuff like that has been on mobile phones well over 7 years now...

It's like if I were to say why the Synaptics phone doesn't include Google Maps, multi-touch, visual voice mail, integrated iPod music player, and other technologies that are mostly iPhone proprietary. And actually, the iPhone just looked a hundred times better after viewing that phone.

Ah yes, but considering the Synpatics phone has a GPS, it would logically have a map system, so the Synpatics phone surpasses the iPhone with a map system PLUS a GPS system "/

This synpatics phone has more impressive stuff in it than what the iPhone has. Looks mean nothing, it is what the phone is capable of and what a phon looks like is all down to opinion really "/ The iPhone brags amazing features, yet this synpatics phone video/report was talking about what the phone does. "/ And what part of concept phone don't you understand? It probably won't look like that, twit. The whole point of the video was to show what it does, as opposed to looks :rolleyes:

Heres another comparison- one you might relate to; The iPhone and the Zen Vision:M



The iPhone just got smaller.

Is this a bad time to mention I always thought my Zen was big? :rolleyes: Yet you assume I never did? Wishful thinking? The iPhone is nearly half a CD case, so it can't fit into a jean pocket, tracksuit bottom pocket etc. So really, they're not pocket sized, portable media devices. You'll just have to sit it in your bag or a coat pocket, which is one place pick pocketers go "/ AND one of the places you probably won't notice the phone ringing if you have it set to silent or vibrate...

How the hell is a razr more durable than the iPhone?? Flip phones are notorious for breaking in half because they're flip phones. Candybar style phones do not, which is what the iPhone is and which is why majority of smartphones are candybar styled as well. And unless you're applying a significant amount of force upon the phone (ie- attempting to break it with your hands), it is very unlikely to break. iPod Videos are thinner than the iPhone and guess what- they don't break in half! Fascinating, don't you think? :rolleyes:

You do realise the flip phone is meant to be closed when you put it in your pocket? This strengthens it by adding to layers together, making them harder to snap "/ So you are pretty stupid if you haven't realised why a flip phone is called a flip phone :rolleyes:

Yes, the iPhone is a "candy bar/brick style phone, but that really only means that it is a block which doesn't need opening. It doesn't mean a certain width, depth or height. It still is thin whether you think of what it is called or not. The iPhone is thin, thinner than an iPod Nano which below (as commmented on) still snaps. There is still a possibility it will snap, regardless to what how tight or baggy your trousers are.

Also, you cannot compare a company that is a professional in phone manufacteur with a company that hasn't even made one, so Motorola should know by now what makes or breaks a phone while Apple just steal technology regardless to what should keep it going for a while, as known by Apples infamous snapping and software crashes.

Wonderful, three Zens represent all Creative media players in the world. And none of the owners practice common sense maintenance on their devices.

It was an example "/ Now I can name all the iPods which have had errors with people I own, but I guess you want bigger facts than that "/ I don't really know if there is a website that shows how easily a Creative (or other) product crashes compared to an iPod.

And the iPod Nano still snaps if you apply pressure to them, pressure that is just sitting on them. They were suppose to of fixed this months ago by making them more solid. Seems they still haven't tried hard enough, figures.

In conclusion to this, Apple Products e.g. the iPod, are just not as practical as everyone thinks they are. Although it really is the users fault for snapping them, Apple could prevent this with bothering to add appropriate materials to strengthen the casing "/

That's because it was a downgrade included in an upgrade. While many features were enhanced, FM recording was removed.

I am guessing it was removed because downloading live Radio is considered illegal? Which is why you don't really get desktop microphones.

Uhm, no. Firmware updates are freely available to install whenever they appear on the Creative Labs website. Unlike Apple which announces updates, Creative does not, therefore they go unnoticed. That doesn't mean your Zen doesn't need a firmware update. Just that you don't know how to properly maintain a device that requires updates. "/

But why would it need an update when it is working perfectly well the way it is now? That's the poitn I am trying to get across "/ If the technology behind the music crashes, then maybe an update is needed.

I talked to Creative Tech Support a while ago about my old Zen which had a broken screen (I have no idea how, but I imagine it got near a magnet). They said that you only need to download updates if something is not working and if there is an update for that particular error, if not, then send it way to be fixed. I just ended up getting a Vision: M, because I got interested in them around the time the old one broken.

So no, you don't necessarily need an update, considering it is all working well "/ If not, get an update. You don't have to get an update if it is working well, unless you think you do need one. Matter of user choice, rather than company choice "/

[HUGECOOL]

Obviously Allchin has a deranged mind to not realise that iPods are backed by a huge company, bigger than Creative and Sony that will obviously over advertise, exaggerate and distribute the wonders of an iPod. Personally, though experience, they're crap in comparison "/

This was back in 2003. No one even noticed Apple's presence until the iPod was released. "/ Apple is a bigger company than Sony? lol Oh, that's right, because Apple also have their own film division, gaming department, and music label. ;l And Allchin wasn't judging the iPod by its capabilities (the Zen had more), it was the way everything worked without any problems out of the box, and being able to easily transfer music to the iPod with few instructions. And its only considered over-advertising if the product never sells despite all the advertising, and the iPod sells very fast.

I see, we were orginally talking about companies that manufacteured MP3 players like Creative and Sony, which brought them out roughly the same time as the iPod, although some released them before the iPod. Obviously, the Zune would be crap, it is a new thing in a new market, you don't even need to study markets to know that "/

No.. We were talking about the antitrust trial Microsoft was facing BECAUSE of that. And because of those events, the Zune was created. And no, the Zune should have taken off immediately. When a large company such as Microsoft introduce a largely advertised media player into the market (and being dubbed the 'iPod-killer', which it wasn't), it is expected that the product become popular very quickly.

It went off track ages ago, might aswell make it worse and I hardly point it out, I was merely making an off-topic comment about it, but you seem not to realise that. You argue you don't want to argue about operating systems, yet you do it anyway. Looking for an argument really...

It's pretty obvious looking at that site which compares th two, so you completely destroyed your argument here.

We were originally arguing about Windows Update vs Mac Updates. So then you started getting 'rough ideas' of what Mac updates were even though you were wrong, which was followed by more whining about the Mac O/S being unstable and horrible, even though you've never actually used it for productivity.

And the reason I'd rather not argue about operating systems is because 1) its a very tiring argument never ending in a conclusion 2) your knowledge in computers is slim to none, so you'd just be repeating other people's opinions and 3) its pointless to do so when someone has already compared them and posted the results on a website "/

Hmmm, Windows aren;t as bad comapred to Apple as I imagined. Windows blow Apple out of the competition in certain areas, and only slightly do worse where Apple are best at...

And Apple praise their video editting in ads, yet looking at this source you provided, they're pretty crap "/ Apple Macs don't come with any video editting/making programs "/

No, they're not as bad, they just lost the comparison both times around.

"Grand total (out of 920 points):

Mac OS X: 642 (643)
Windows XP Pro: 586 (630)
Windows XP Home: 557 (605)"

Oh and concerning video editing, I'm guessing you didn't read the conclusion, which says that this only applies to older Macs, not new ones since the new ones include software not previously included. "/

Yet I have a criticism for nearly all your responses and correct information which you innocently try to ignore? Most of my answers are common sense, but you seem to deploy logic which is trying defy physics. Like fitting half a CD case in your pocket and call the iPhone solid...

no, lol. Your 'correct information' is based on your 'rough ideas' which aren't facts. You base your argument on ‘word of mouth’ and things you've read that others have said about the topic. So the only thing you're doing is really just reading material and regurgitating it on this thread, without having any actual experience with these 'issues' you seem to be so bothered with on mac computers. "/

Obviously it isn't good? BUT, because the Windows system allows users to do pretty much what they want with it, also leaves it open for others. You cannot fix this.

So why are you praising something that isn't good? "/ It isn't good for any user. If a computer-illerated user was to find their way to, say C:/Windows/System32, and delete files from there and effectively destroying the o/s, how would the result be one to brag about? "/

I don't know much about .exe programs, but judging by what you've said, if a Mac doesn't use .exe files, they're not that good "/ Loads of programs out there are .exe, which is probably why people argue that the Mac isn't a good system which offers lot of programs.

No, you don't. You also don't know much about computers. Yes, lots of programs out there are .exe, such as trojans, viruses, spyware- so not being able to run these is not good?. Because macs have a different filing system, they cannot execute these files so they effectively become immune to the problem. Macs use .dmg files instead of .exe. Arguments about Macs having less programs than Windows are pretty pointless now. Anything you can do on a PC can be done on a Mac, or emulated, despite not having as much third-party support. "/

And please, stop making arguments on things you have no idea about. I’d rather be shot in the chest with projectile diarrhea than continue listening to your reasoning on computer operating systems. “/

If you bothered looking at the videos and information and reviews on the iPhone, you'll notice all Apple do is brag about the amazing touch screen and how it is impliment, apparently "differently" than anything else in the world. The fact you can't really impliment a touch screen any different is out of question with them. Unless they have made it so you HAVE to use your toes

Read the statement above, you cannot implement it any differently than any other multi-touch pad "/ The technology is new, yes, but Apple aren't the first to use it, which they strongly hint they have.

o_O Now I'm wondering if you know what implemented means.
The screen was made to work according to the programs the iPhone, which is how they implemented it- to work flawlessly with its programs and make programs more productively by providing faster input. It's like comparing a Wii remote to a PS3 controller- which one provides faster input? The Wii's remote does because the user is constantly interacting with the device and the Ps3 controller needs the user to first search for the input command, press it, then they get interaction. Without that detachment, the iPhone effectively makes programs more productive with quicker input.

Which is only 2 mega pixels, which means the quality won't be that good anyway.

You know what other phone only has a 2 mega pixel camera? The LG Prada phone- the one you were praising that would be so much better than the iPhone. "/

Yes, it is NEW, clever boy. When did I say it was ancient?

Maybe when you kept saying it has already been used before on other products? "/

Primitive? Hardly... Sony is #1 with their quality of sound "/ iPod is 3rd.

They're also not easy to use. No off button, you get off buttons on every other MP3 player, you have to hold the Menu button, hardly easy to find out really "/ Although it is popular, it doesn't mean it is the best. As stated, Sony won the quality of sound out of aload of devices. This isn't a biased comment either, considering I have a Creative

Find the source of your information for sound quality please.

There's no off button because it automatically shuts off. "/ and no, you don't hold the Menu button, you hold the Play/Pause button. And I'm guessing you haven't seen the iPod functionality on the iPhone, which is very different to a regular iPod, so I'm not sure why you're arguing about iPod hardware technology if it won't be present on the iPhone. "/

This is true, I agree. But internet on phones isn't used as often as you would seem. It costs which is the problem. Although I can see phones being created that connect to Wireless Networks. Some may already do.

Cell phone browsers are hardly used because the experience on them is very different to the experience on your home computer. The iPhone is hoping to change all that soon though.
This is why the iPhone is going to be sold with a data plan for wireless carriers. Also, because the iPhone automatically switches to wireless networks, it will reduce the cost of internet access because it won't use the carrier's Internet, but your own Internet connection (if you have a wireless router) or whoever's connection you access.

Consider it's an opinionated argument, and there is no right or wrong answer "/ And pointless? Half the things I have posted are pretty obvious. Just look at the iPhone and compare, you've even failed yourself trying to make a proper come back by providing proof which I also benefit from "/

I was actually referring to you arguing about computers, which you have no idea how they function, then you want to try and tell me that they're flawed. "/ Your arguments usually contain your opinion even though it isn't needed, rendering arguing about your opinion pointless. In short, all your comments are pretty much bullcrap, which makes it all the easier for me to respond to.

As mentioned below, all you need to do is hold one corner and drag it into itself to make the image smaller or create a crop window and so on. Looking at the link you provided, the iPhones photo editting is probably going to be about as crap as it is on the Mac. So it wouldn't surprised me if editted a photo is about as simple and useless. While with phones that have Photo Editted suites, you can crop with only a few clicks of a button. 2 minimum and the maximum is how close you zoom in.

wth? Where did you get editing pictures from? o_O It's never been mentioned anywhere, and you're saying it'll be bad? See, this is what I mean by sticking your opinions were they aren't needed, especially since you haven't even used photo editing on a Mac. The only functionality the iPhone offers is being able to zoom in and out of an image using your fingers. No wonder your argument sounded pointless- you don't even know what you're talking about. "/

Consider most ideas are taken from something already in existence. The iPhone hasn't done anything new really. The touch screen on the iPhone is just a connection of ideas leading up to the final conclusion.

Touch pad > only a single output > make it multiple > Multi-touch pad. The touch screen just originates from a something touch sensitive "/ Which is what this whole argument is about. The iPhone is using an idea and have advanced on it, unless they just copied it off another company, which is likely.

If the iPhone created the whole touch-sensitive technology, then it would be amazing, but they didn't...

Ideas are taken from something already in existance? Wouldn't that be called copyright infringement? "/

Taking an idea and improving on it is called innovation. "/ And Apple paid the creators of multi-touch input to develop a screen for their phone.

No, they developed something even greater- being able to have multiple input on a touch screen which had never been available before on a public product. "/

You must be pretty low witted to not understand. Use your common sense, if I was talking about 2 fingers being used to manipulate a tool on the iPhone and you've seen videos of the iPhone in action, you should be able to build your own conclusion that I mean only certain tools. Not all of them. Use your brain, it's what it's there for

This is what you said.

"With a phone you need one finger, with the iPhone you need 2 which longate the browsing time to get to a certain menu you want."

So, how am I the one not understanding when you were the one that blatantly suggested the iPhone used 2 fingers for all actions? "/

This isn't good enough really.

Another pointless opinion. You haven't tried it and say its not good enough. It's like someone saying the Wii controls are horrible even though they’ve never played. "/

You may want to edit images as fast as possible without the problem of error. And Using your thumb on the iPhone would be a problem, considering you would probably tough the screen with your thumb nail which could sratch the screen or just make things more difficult "/

First of all, I'm not sure where you keep getting that the iPhone has a full-fledged photo editing program if all that’s been mentioned is zooming on photos."/ Second, touch screens are not like regular screens. They are very flexible and cannot be easily damaged to the point of irreparability. "/

Yes, like how you would resize an image on a PC and possibly Mac, but taking hold of one corner and pulling it into itself or the opposite, to make the image big.

You do not understand. The iPhone DOES NOT resize pictures, and as far as I know, it doesn't offer that capability. It only allows the user to ZOOM IN on pictures. Resizing an image and zooming in on it are very different. "/

Objects aren't things that do stuff with things, isn't that describing interaction? When a 'thing' that does stuff with another 'thing?'

I've never seen the point in using huge words when smaller words will suffice "/ As long as you can understand, then it is perfectly alright.

It would in a normal conversation but not here. We are talking about phones, computers, and modern technology in general. When you refer to the objects an object is composed of as 'things', you refer to a very broad topic that can range from many different mechanisms a device uses. “/ It’s like referring to objects attached to a motherboard as ‘things stuffed inside a computer’, instead of calling them by their real name, it would be very difficult to know what you’re talking about.

There really isn't an exact term for what I am trying to describe "/ Besides, does it matter? Not really no, you're just trying to find a petty excuse for an argument, really.

Yes, they’re called ‘Pre-Installed mobile applications’. And it matters because we’re discussing technology, which has its own terminology. “/

Still new technology at the end of the day "/ While the iPhone is released in June, there is still a phone out on the market which has thrown away it's buttons and has gone for a touch screen.

It doesn’t matter if its new technology when you clearly believed it was something it wasn’t and then tried to use that against me, which was a mistake since I actually do know what I’m talking about in my arguments.

Surely more applications is better than few applications? Self-explanatory really "/ More applications, more choice... You don't relly get huge multi-tasking technology in phones, more chance of something going wrong.

Uh, no? If all the applications on the phone are crappy and hardly work, what's the point of having so many of them if you can’t even use them? “/ Quality over quantity.

Obviously every phone mutes the music when a phone call is happening. I guess I must explain further. You could have, for example: Your message inbox open, internet browser open, MP3 player open and a game running. With the "Running Applications" menu, you can simultaniously swap between them, without having the close an application. Looking at the iPhone information, it doesn't appear to have this. Obviously it would mute/turn off the music when a phone call comes through, if it didn't, it would be a pretty rubbish phone

Actually it does “/. The phone has four different environments in operates in so different tasks (which would each be in a different environment) would only require the user to switch to that environment, displaying the active task. And when you receive a phone call, the music fades out and the screen goes to the call menu on the phone. “/

It has a maps setting, it may aswell take that extra step and have GPS, then you can get rid of that old sat nav in your car. And drag and drop would be very useful with the iPhone, you could create play lists by dragging songs into a Playlist etc. It seems more impressive than pushing areas saying "Add to playlist" which you seem to of said was useless if the iPod had areas that zoomed in and out of images. So your statement is a bit hypocritical really "/

So you’re basically going to this by assumption and assuming the phone will eventually have GPS? “/ Making playlists is done on iTunes, which has drag-and-drop so it isn’t necessary on the phone. oO

Well considering they are trying to be better than any other phone (if you listened to the CEO speech), they may aswell. Some phones like the Sony Ericsson has a "Running Application" setting, which means you can start one application and view an old one. Like going on the internet while having text messages up. This would be useful in the iPhone, you can go on Maps while having Notes up. I just read the Apple website, I like how they list notes and addresses as an iPhone feature. Any phone can have that, it seems a bit pointless listing that. It just looks like they're showing off a new phone to an audience new to phones "/ Even though stuff like that has been on mobile phones well over 7 years now...

And yet you still don’t get it. The iPhone’s technology is not what’s being shown. It’s the implementation of that technology and how it will work better than it currently does on other phones. Let’s take the example you used- contacts. Currently on phones, you have to scroll through all your contacts until you reach the person you want to call. The iPhone changes that by providing the user a faster way of doing that simply by flicking their finger up in order to zoom, thereby reaching the contact wanted faster than before. “/

Ah yes, but considering the Synpatics phone has a GPS, it would logically have a map system, so the Synpatics phone surpasses the iPhone with a map system PLUS a GPS system "/

This synpatics phone has more impressive stuff in it than what the iPhone has. Looks mean nothing, it is what the phone is capable of and what a phon looks like is all down to opinion really "/ The iPhone brags amazing features, yet this synpatics phone video/report was talking about what the phone does. "/ And what part of concept phone don't you understand? It probably won't look like that, twit. The whole point of the video was to show what it does, as opposed to looks

No, it isn’t the same lol. The iPhone has Google Maps, which is very popular system that a lot of people prefer. The phone can also display satellite images of the location in question making it the first phones to do. “/

By looks, I didn’t mean appearance, otherwise I would’ve said it. It’s like if I said, “Looking at that phone just made the iPhone sound a hundred times better” I wouldn’t be talking about sound quality on the phone. “/ Concept phones are made to look more aesthetically pleasing because they don’t have all the technology that is going to be used in the final product, so the actual phone will look worse than that. And name calling? Has it become such a chore for you to have a proper argument that you’d resort to insults? “/ And in fact, it wasn’t an insult because unlike you since I’m basing my responses on facts, not assumptions.

Is this a bad time to mention I always thought my Zen was big? Yet you assume I never did? Wishful thinking? The iPhone is nearly half a CD case, so it can't fit into a jean pocket, tracksuit bottom pocket etc. So really, they're not pocket sized, portable media devices. You'll just have to sit it in your bag or a coat pocket, which is one place pick pocketers go "/ AND one of the places you probably won't notice the phone ringing if you have it set to silent or vibrate...

So now the mp3 player you always seem to be praising has a negative side? “/ And the iPhone is smaller than the Zen if you see from the measurements, so a Zen is actually bigger than half a CD case. Wow. People carry these in their pockets? Because according to you, anything that’s half the size of a CD case or larger should be put in coat pocket or bag. “/ And unless you don’t have pockets or they’re really small, anyone can carry something smaller than half the size of a CD case in their pocket. People carry these devices in their pockets all the time with no issues. If carrying something of these dimensions is a personal problem, why should it be everyone else’s? “/

You do realise the flip phone is meant to be closed when you put it in your pocket? This strengthens it by adding to layers together, making them harder to snap "/ So you are pretty stupid if you haven't realised why a flip phone is called a flip phone

Yes, the iPhone is a "candy bar/brick style phone, but that really only means that it is a block which doesn't need opening. It doesn't mean a certain width, depth or height. It still is thin whether you think of what it is called or not. The iPhone is thin, thinner than an iPod Nano which below (as commmented on) still snaps. There is still a possibility it will snap, regardless to what how tight or baggy your trousers are.

Also, you cannot compare a company that is a professional in phone manufacteur with a company that hasn't even made one, so Motorola should know by now what makes or breaks a phone while Apple just steal technology regardless to what should keep it going for a while, as known by Apples infamous snapping and software crashes.

I never specified an action “/ I said they were notorious for breaking, not that they broke when put in the pocket. “/ So a flip phone is still vulnerable to breaking when its opened, which is any time the user wants to interact with it. oO

LOL. See, that’s where you’re wrong (for the 20th time now? Sorry, I lost track.). Your claim: The iPhone is thinner than an iPod Nano. Well, let’s see below;



Wow, wrong again. The iPod Nano is MUCH thinner than the iPhone, and even so it’s still very hard to break because of the new aluminum enclosure. Next time you make a claim, back it up with sources, because apparently the only sources you have are the facts that you’re pulling out of your ***.

And don’t even talk about software crashes. You don’t even know what a .exe file is. “/

It was an example "/ Now I can name all the iPods which have had errors with people I own, but I guess you want bigger facts than that "/ I don't really know if there is a website that shows how easily a Creative (or other) product crashes compared to an iPod.

And the iPod Nano still snaps if you apply pressure to them, pressure that is just sitting on them. They were suppose to of fixed this months ago by making them more solid. Seems they still haven't tried hard enough, figures.

In conclusion to this, Apple Products e.g. the iPod, are just not as practical as everyone thinks they are. Although it really is the users fault for snapping them, Apple could prevent this with bothering to add appropriate materials to strengthen the casing "/

You’re right- I like sources better than listening to your ‘facts’, which most of the time are just crap. “/ Show me where a new generation iPod Nano has broken in half, not intentionally, and I’ll believe you. All your claims seem to be your assumptions on things even though you haven’t really seen these things happen and repeating what someone else has said. Oh, and no company is responsible for user-caused hardware malfunction. And what material would be ‘appropriate’ for not breaking? As far as I know, any device can break and it just depends on how much a user maintains their product.

I am guessing it was removed because downloading live Radio is considered illegal? Which is why you don't really get desktop microphones.

But why would it need an update when it is working perfectly well the way it is now? That's the poitn I am trying to get across "/ If the technology behind the music crashes, then maybe an update is needed.

I talked to Creative Tech Support a while ago about my old Zen which had a broken screen (I have no idea how, but I imagine it got near a magnet). They said that you only need to download updates if something is not working and if there is an update for that particular error, if not, then send it way to be fixed. I just ended up getting a Vision: M, because I got interested in them around the time the old one broken.

So no, you don't necessarily need an update, considering it is all working well "/ If not, get an update. You don't have to get an update if it is working well, unless you think you do need one. Matter of user choice, rather than company choice "/

Updates are necessary to keep devices working properly. But of course, like most people, you don’t care about updates because it ‘doesn’t seem necessary’. Don’t fix it if it ain’t broken, right? NO. “/ A lot of people seem to have your way of thinking when it comes to these devices, and its why these people usually come across a lot of issues, and why Apple does this automatically. Many functions are improved during updates and they provide for a better user experience and ameliorate issues that would otherwise cause bigger issues that would cost the company more money (ie- a company that never issued an update for a device would require more customer service employees because more people are complaining about a glitch the device is suffering from, which could’ve easily been fixed via updating.), and the customer would be dissatisfied with the product. Apple automatically does this in order to have their products working without giving people the inconvenience of ‘scavenger hunting’ for solutions to issues that were fixed in a previous update. “/