iPhone - Good idea? [Closes 10/02/07]

[boyslikegirls]

im not going to read all these essays so if anyone has said anything about a zune being crap, it isnt lol
i have a white one and its loads better then my old ipod nano.

[HUGECOOL]

im not going to read all these essays so if anyone has said anything about a zune being crap, it isnt lol
i have a white one and its loads better then my old ipod nano.

I had a zune for about 3 weeks, and I can't say i agree. ;/

For one, you can't use it as a removable hard drive which is something I use my iPod as much of the time. Also, the wireless would've been nice had there been more people with Zunes, so when it was on it was only draining battery life. The software the Zune uses was also not my cup o' tea. You can't edit songs while they're on the Zune and you have to do that before you transfer them. The software also uses loads of memory, especially for the media sharing on the 360, so that wasn't very convenient. The only thing I really liked about it was the radio, which showed the title of the songs begin played. Also, the menu was soft of laggy on my Zune. It had a small delay when I would switch over to another menu and it would be annoying to browse around the songs. Oh, it doesn't have games. I returned it.

[GommeInc]

[COLOR=Black] This was back in 2003. No one even noticed Apple's presence until the iPod was released. "/ Apple is a bigger company than Sony? lol Oh, that's right, because Apple also have their own film division, gaming department, and music label. ;l And Allchin wasn't judging the iPod by its capabilities (the Zen had more), it was the way everything worked without any problems out of the box, and being able to easily transfer music to the iPod with few instructions. And its only considered over-advertising if the product never sells despite all the advertising, and the iPod sells very fast.

I was considering the Computer world, not the companies as a whole. I probably should of mentioned that How the products work out of the box? I've seen more iPod issues than Creative or Sony issues combined "/ It is also extremely easy to install music into your Zen... You connect it either as it is, or put it as a removeable disk and add the music by clicking upload?

Creative and Sony never saw the need to advertise their products, Apple desperately needed to. I always knew about Apple? Although it probably depends on how easily it was to come by one. When the iPod was released, for about a year or 2 all you could see was iPod advertised

No.. We were talking about the antitrust trial Microsoft was facing BECAUSE of that. And because of those events, the Zune was created. And no, the Zune should have taken off immediately. When a large company such as Microsoft introduce a largely advertised media player into the market (and being dubbed the 'iPod-killer', which it wasn't), it is expected that the product become popular very quickly.

So Microsoft expected that an MP3 player, which has a load of competitors, would take off immediately? I can't see anyone dropping their Zen, iPod or Sony bean or whatever it is, for a Zune immediately "/ That's not how consumers work...

We were originally arguing about Windows Update vs Mac Updates. So then you started getting 'rough ideas' of what Mac updates were even though you were wrong, which was followed by more whining about the Mac O/S being unstable and horrible, even though you've never actually used it for productivity.

It was argued that Macs get more updates, then it got lowered to they both have roughly the same. And whining? Hardly "/

Comparing the two, and seeing them compared, I'll pick Windows, simply because it does everything at an average level (which is between 4-6). If I wanted something else, I'll download it "/ I also have more use with Microsoft Offices tools, because I cannot use the Apple equivilent because I've never learnt how to use then and I wouldn't be able to send it to college or other people, who all use Windows systems "/

More businesses use Windows, so I'll use Windows incase I ever need to write something to send to a business or company.

And the reason I'd rather not argue about operating systems is because 1) its a very tiring argument never ending in a conclusion 2) your knowledge in computers is slim to none, so you'd just be repeating other people's opinions and 3) its pointless to do so when someone has already compared them and posted the results on a website "/

No, I would be reproducing what I've read and researched. But I can see why you would want to drop it. They're both different systems which have uses for different people.

No, they're not as bad, they just lost the comparison both times around.

"Grand total (out of 920 points):

Mac OS X: 642 (643)
Windows XP Pro: 586 (630)
Windows XP Home: 557 (605)"

Oh and concerning video editing, I'm guessing you didn't read the conclusion, which says that this only applies to older Macs, not new ones since the new ones include software not previously included. "/

Windows still blows Apple out of the competition in some areas. It all depends on what the user needs at the end of the day.

no, lol. Your 'correct information' is based on your 'rough ideas' which aren't facts. You base your argument on ‘word of mouth’ and things you've read that others have said about the topic. So the only thing you're doing is really just reading material and regurgitating it on this thread, without having any actual experience with these 'issues' you seem to be so bothered with on mac computers. "/

Ah but that means I don't need it "/ I don't need to experience a Mac fully to understand the differences between the two systems. Half the time, my criticisms are with facts that are obviously wrong because they go against common sense, knowledge and physics. If it is regurgitating, it means I already know some parts of it and understand how it runs depending on what you've read. You've done it with the sources you've read.

So why are you praising something that isn't good? "/ It isn't good for any user. If a computer-illerated user was to find their way to, say C:/Windows/System32, and delete files from there and effectively destroying the o/s, how would the result be one to brag about? "/

You could simply recover the computer? Why would an illeterate person touch them? If you're a parent, you could put controls on to stop children deleting them, if they even know how to find "/ If you're a bit more amture, you just wouldn't touch anything you don't know what you're touching.

Again, it depends on the user. If you were advanced, you could play around with the System folder till your heart content, personalising everything. If not, you leave it, simple.

No, you don't. You also don't know much about computers. Yes, lots of programs out there are .exe, such as trojans, viruses, spyware- so not being able to run these is not good?. Because macs have a different filing system, they cannot execute these files so they effectively become immune to the problem. Macs use .dmg files instead of .exe. Arguments about Macs having less programs than Windows are pretty pointless now. Anything you can do on a PC can be done on a Mac, or emulated, despite not having as much third-party support. "/

And please, stop making arguments on things you have no idea about. I’d rather be shot in the chest with projectile diarrhea than continue listening to your reasoning on computer operating systems. “/

As you certainly know I don't know much about computers, I only know a certain amount. Not .exe programs are trojans etc "/ .exe files are programs files. Like if I download Zone Alarm for example, that comes as a .exe files which de-compresses itself.

And it is obvious that trojans, viruses and spyware are bad, by definition mainly.

I read a magazine about the two combined in terms of hardware more than software, which the source you gave doesn't describe.

Basically, if you have a problem with a Windows System, it is probably alot easier to sort out than what would happen with a Mac, because they're harder to fix. Although you get Trojans, Viruses and Spyware, this doesn't make them completely better than Windows. They're easier to upgrade in comparison while a Mac is limited and the hardware compatibility is useless.

If you want to implement an idea, it is best with a PC, because it is easier to create an application due to it having more programs available for it because in comparison to Macs, more people use Windows and has alot more authering tools on it. It is also backwards compatible, which Macs isn't fully. There are more programming languages in a Windows to a Mac."

Although, after reading further, I noticed that the argument just loops. So we may aswell let the OS argument die, because we'll be arguing way after this debate dies.

The screen was made to work according to the programs the iPhone, which is how they implemented it- to work flawlessly with its programs and make programs more productively by providing faster input. It's like comparing a Wii remote to a PS3 controller- which one provides faster input? The Wii's remote does because the user is constantly interacting with the device and the Ps3 controller needs the user to first search for the input command, press it, then they get interaction. Without that detachment, the iPhone effectively makes programs more productive with quicker input.

I wouldn't say it is faster really "/ Pushing the screen is just like pushing a button in some ways. Like the contacts, which is down on the joystick or arrow keys and scroll. Only difference is where the iPhone you don't have to scroll in some cases in a small menu and you just need to press the screen. It doesn't make it all that faster.

You know what other phone only has a 2 mega pixel camera? The LG Prada phone- the one you were praising that would be so much better than the iPhone. "/

I never praised the camera though A product doesn't have to be better in everyway to be overally better. It can be on the same level "/

Maybe when you kept saying it has already been used before on other products? "/

Just because it has been used before doesn't make it old. It hasn't be around for long, which makes it new. It doesn't come down to whether it has been used before "/

Find the source of your information for sound quality please.

I'll get this information next time I see my friend as you might know as Mentor. He had a link to a company who does reviews in magazines which compared the Zen, the Sony Walkman and the iPod. I'll either PM you it or reply when you've replied

There's no off button because it automatically shuts off. "/ and no, you don't hold the Menu button, you hold the Play/Pause button. And I'm guessing you haven't seen the iPod functionality on the iPhone, which is very different to a regular iPod, so I'm not sure why you're arguing about iPod hardware technology if it won't be present on the iPhone. "/

There is about 3 arguments going. One on Windows vs OS X, another on Zen vs iPod and another on the iPhone vs other phones. It started back ages ago, so we might aswell stick to it "/ I always get the off button wrong for an iPod, but the poitn still remains, if you want it off straight away, you have to press and hold a button down, while with other MP3 players, you can just press a button. I think iPod was trying to make a new way of turning something off, without thinking how quick and easy it is to do. Even though holding a button isn't hard.

Cell phone browsers are hardly used because the experience on them is very different to the experience on your home computer. The iPhone is hoping to change all that soon though.

But you can't really say you need to use the internet in the same extent as you would on your home PC? Considering it costs, it is easier just to use a laptop or Home PC. Also, having a full browser on present day mobile phones is useless, the screens are too small. I think the barrier for small phones is being broken down, which is where the iPhone comes along with the screen for it.

This is why the iPhone is going to be sold with a data plan for wireless carriers. Also, because the iPhone automatically switches to wireless networks, it will reduce the cost of internet access because it won't use the carrier's Internet, but your own Internet connection (if you have a wireless router) or whoever's connection you access.

Hmmm, although this feature is good, it is useless in most parts of Britian. There isn't alot of free internet connections we can connect to, unless they can get passed security? Britain pretty much sucks compared to some places where there is networks that are free to use. I don't know much about the US, so answer me this.

Does the US have networks nearly anywhere in city areas that are free to connect to?

I was actually referring to you arguing about computers, which you have no idea how they function, then you want to try and tell me that they're flawed.

Well, I was dragged into discussing how a computer works when I only have limited amount of knowledge on them "/ And the source you may have given was probably for the argument about computers, but it doesn't mean I can't use it "/

"/ Your arguments usually contain your opinion even though it isn't needed, rendering arguing about your opinion pointless. In short, all your comments are pretty much bullcrap, which makes it all the easier for me to respond to.

Not just my opinions, loads of peoples opinions. From official reviews to user reviews, which are probably more important tha official ones, because they're done freely. My arguments are probably bull crap, but they still give out pretty good points

wth? Where did you get editing pictures from? o_O It's never been mentioned anywhere, and you're saying it'll be bad? See, this is what I mean by sticking your opinions were they aren't needed, especially since you haven't even used photo editing on a Mac. The only functionality the iPhone offers is being able to zoom in and out of an image using your fingers. No wonder your argument sounded pointless- you don't even know what you're talking about. "/

I assumed that the iPhone would actually have this technology, most phones and even MP3 players do... It wasn't an opinion, it was an assumption which I thought was obvious, but it seems the iPhone is about as primative as a Sony Ericsson k800i "/ Only advantage is that the iPhone has a full browser "/ This is, of course, missing out the new technology of connecting to Wireless Networks and the touch-pad.

Ideas are taken from something already in existance? Wouldn't that be called copyright infringement? "/

Not if it is exact I can take the idea of the Creative scroll technology and plant Apple on it and make it so it uses a wheel as opposed to a line like Creative has. Hey presto, the Apple iPod has a new feature


Also, say you have an idea of a Golden Mountain. That is taken from somethings in exitence. The colour gold and a mountain. That theory has been around since the Philosopher Hume "/ Pretty obvious nowadays.

Taking an idea and improving on it is called innovation. "/ And Apple paid the creators of multi-touch input to develop a screen for their phone.

So you work for iPhone and know how it was created? They probably looked at a PDA and noticed how you can use it as a touch screen. With this, they probably built on this idea. Like, using two finger and making it multi-touch compatible and then developed it further so you can then slide your finger when it is held on a switch.

I've just noticed, that you've contradicted yourself in that last comment...

If it was made out of thin air, you would know. This hardly seems like it was, because something similar has been around for ages. They've just improved on the idea.

No, they developed something even greater- being able to have multiple input on a touch screen which had never been available before on a public product. "/

This is what you said.

"With a phone you need one finger, with the iPhone you need 2 which longate the browsing time to get to a certain menu you want."

So, how am I the one not understanding when you were the one that blatantly suggested the iPhone used 2 fingers for all actions? "/

I was describing one of the actions I witnessed in the video, not the whole phone itself "/

Another pointless opinion. You haven't tried it and say its not good enough. It's like someone saying the Wii controls are horrible even though they’ve never played. "/

I don't need to try one out? I've used phones before and know how they could improve. Only amazing thing about the iPhone so far is the multi touch-screen, which is genious. Just a pity nothing else is amazing about it.

First of all, I'm not sure where you keep getting that the iPhone has a full-fledged photo editing program if all that’s been mentioned is zooming on photos."/ Second, touch screens are not like regular screens. They are very flexible and cannot be easily damaged to the point of irreparability. "/

So it doesn't?! The iPhone is getting a bit basic now... It doesn't need a fully fledged one to do stuff like that "/ On some phones, you get a very basic one which does stuff like that.

You do not understand. The iPhone DOES NOT resize pictures, and as far as I know, it doesn't offer that capability. It only allows the user to ZOOM IN on pictures. Resizing an image and zooming in on it are very different. "/

So how comes you said that resizing images is something it does?

You only use one finger to operate the phone. Having a touch screen doesn't mean it requires more digits to operate. It's basically a regular phone with flat buttons that interact upon touch as opposed to pushing, so how do you need more fingers to operate the iPhone? "/ And all the videos I've seen with the iPhone, the user operates the phone with one finger, and two when resizing pictures. See, maybe if you'd base your responses on factual evidence rather than 'rough ideas', you'd see how silly your comments sound even though you've deluded yourself into thinking they make sense.

So you made something up on the spot there, so it seems and you said in a previous paragraph that I supposedly travelled to the future to try one out :rolleyes:

It would in a normal conversation but not here. We are talking about phones, computers, and modern technology in general. When you refer to the objects an object is composed of as 'things', you refer to a very broad topic that can range from many different mechanisms a device uses. “/ It’s like referring to objects attached to a motherboard as ‘things stuffed inside a computer’, instead of calling them by their real name, it would be very difficult to know what you’re talking about.[/quote]

Yes, they’re called ‘Pre-Installed mobile applications’. And it matters because we’re discussing technology, which has its own terminology. “/

They can't be called "pre-installed mobile applications" because for the simple, obvious reason that no where in that name is there anything to do with quantity... That's what you would call the applications that come with the phone, not what you call a phone which can have lots of applications

It doesn’t matter if its new technology when you clearly believed it was something it wasn’t and then tried to use that against me, which was a mistake since I actually do know what I’m talking about in my arguments.

It isn't much though? It is just another Apple product, it being an Apple product is why people are so crazy about it. If it was something else, less people would care. You know what you are talking about? You didn't even know much about phones before this "/ The contacts argument below somewhere is where you don't know what you're talking about "/

Uh, no? If all the applications on the phone are crappy and hardly work, what's the point of having so many of them if you can’t even use them? “/ Quality over quantity.

Because some phones need applications which only come in a single form. Like Bluetooth Messenger, Face Warp, HP Print, Photo Mate etc all have different uses, which you can't really combine unless the company behinds them descides to move into new things? So the quanity and quality are irrelevant, because you can have a high quanity of applications which deliver high quality results.

Actually it does “/. The phone has four different environments in operates in so different tasks (which would each be in a different environment) would only require the user to switch to that environment, displaying the active task. And when you receive a phone call, the music fades out and the screen goes to the call menu on the phone. “/

Yes, every phone has fading out when a call comes in. It's been around for ages, we established that... How do you know it has this option? It still sounds a bit dull, 4 environments? I am sure it has more applications on it than that which you might need to return to without closing?

So you’re basically going to this by assumption and assuming the phone will eventually have GPS? “/ Making playlists is done on iTunes, which has drag-and-drop so it isn’t necessary on the phone. oO

How did you make that idea up? I said it would be an excellent feature, considering the iPhone is meant to be the next best thing to hit the phone industry "/ I don't assume it will have it, because it is obvious it hasn't got it.

So you have to use iTunes to make a playlists? Wow, the iPhone is looking worse now... With other MP3 Players, you can make playlists on the media player itself? You can make playlists miles away from the computer? So if you need it for the iPhone, you're stuffed?

And yet you still don’t get it. The iPhone’s technology is not what’s being shown. It’s the implementation of that technology and how it will work better than it currently does on other phones. Let’s take the example you used- contacts. Currently on phones, you have to scroll through all your contacts until you reach the person you want to call. The iPhone changes that by providing the user a faster way of doing that simply by flicking their finger up in order to zoom, thereby reaching the contact wanted faster than before. “/

Faster than before?! LOL, are you being serious?! With an ordinary phone, you go to contacts and type the first letter of the contact and it lists them. This is about 10 times faster than the scroll :rolleyes:

You obviously have not used a phone before...

No, it isn’t the same lol. The iPhone has Google Maps, which is very popular system that a lot of people prefer. The phone can also display satellite images of the location in question making it the first phones to do. “/

Sat navs display maps, which means it uses a map system? And why would you need a satellite image? It seems pretty pointless really. "Looks, this is how big my garden is." Just a pointless tool really, only use is the maps system, the satellite views are useless. Although you can't really remove this from Google Maps, because it comes with it.

quote=HUGECOOL]By looks, I didn’t mean appearance, otherwise I would’ve said it. It’s like if I said, “Looking at that phone just made the iPhone sound a hundred times better” I wouldn’t be talking about sound quality on the phone. “/ Concept phones are made to look more aesthetically pleasing because they don’t have all the technology that is going to be used in the final product, so the actual phone will look worse than that. And name calling? Has it become such a chore for you to have a proper argument that you’d resort to insults? “/ And in fact, it wasn’t an insult because unlike you since I’m basing my responses on facts, not assumptions.[/quote]
Well if you meant everything about the iPhone, why couldn't you just use the word "seem?" Which covers everything really "/ And how does the iPhone seem any better? That phone has what the iPhone has and more? Although the iPhone uses the iPod and this phone an MP£ player, they're still the same. They both play music.

Personally, I can't see how it can look any worse. Most the time, concept designs, models and the like end up looking alot of different. Which is what you said, but you did it in such a negative way, rather than a neutral way. The phone could look nice, shaped like a phone, than a Toblerone bar...

I'm basing my information on common sense, facts, reviews and the damn right obvious. And twit isn't name calling, more like using a word on someone who cannot understand the obvious "/

So now the mp3 player you always seem to be praising has a negative side? “/ And the iPhone is smaller than the Zen if you see from the measurements, so a Zen is actually bigger than half a CD case. Wow. People carry these in their pockets? Because according to you, anything that’s half the size of a CD case or larger should be put in coat pocket or bag. “/ And unless you don’t have pockets or they’re really small, anyone can carry something smaller than half the size of a CD case in their pocket. People carry these devices in their pockets all the time with no issues. If carrying something of these dimensions is a personal problem, why should it be everyone else’s? “/

Negative side? That it is "big?" Hardly, at least it is properly designed to slip into a pocket, nicely fits and has been designed to withstand drops to the floor and being sat on, like the iPod Nano seems to be not very good at. Considering loads of reviews on the thing have been "the screen snapped," "I've had loads of Nanos, they've all snapped" and then they end up getting a Samsung MP3 player "/

I don't put my zen in my pocket, I never pay attention listening to music when I walk, so it sits in my bag, like loads of people do with any MP3 player, unless they walk around listening to their music.

Considering a jean/tracksuit or any other trouser pocket is too small, yes I do think it would be wise to put it in a coat pocket or bag, unless you want to hold it?

You must have pretty big pockets over there "/ Can you also have keys, a mobile or a wallet in those pockets too? Although the iPhone is a mobile and an MP3 player, you now have to considering how tall it is. If you sit properly, your trouser pocket goes into an L shape where your hips and upper leg bend. With an iPhone in, which is takes about as much room as your pocket, it won't be able to blend. Plus, it would also be uncomfortable to have in your pocket.

I may just cut a CD case up to the dimensions listed, and see what it is like, but I am not sure if I want to go that level on an internet debate really
I never specified an action “/ I said they were notorious for breaking, not that they broke when put in the pocket. “/ So a flip phone is still vulnerable to breaking when its opened, which is any time the user wants to interact with it. oO[/quote]

LOL. See, that’s where you’re wrong (for the 20th time now? Sorry, I lost track.). Your claim: The iPhone is thinner than an iPod Nano. Well, let’s see below;



Wow, wrong again. The iPod Nano is MUCH thinner than the iPhone, and even so it’s still very hard to break because of the new aluminum enclosure. Next time you make a claim, back it up with sources, because apparently the only sources you have are the facts that you’re pulling out of your ***.

And don’t even talk about software crashes. You don’t even know what a .exe file is. “/

Considering I didn't use that site, I got a ruler out. It's still thin "/ and considering the length and if you know anything about physics, it is still likely to snap under pressure, whether or not it is forced upon.

As stated below, the new aluminium enclosure is crap? And aluminium isn't a hard metal either? Play with a can next time, you'll notice.

You also seem to not notice common sense, which is kinda more important than facts and sources. You also don't know how to form someone elses idea. It happens all the time in the world, when someone says something, you think of the probabilities and pick out which one they are obviously talking about "/ Not only does it mean you are clever enough to understand what someone means, it also means you can save alot less time writing.

You’re right- I like sources better than listening to your ‘facts’, which most of the time are just crap. “/ Show me where a new generation iPod Nano has broken in half, not intentionally, and I’ll believe you. All your claims seem to be your assumptions on things even though you haven’t really seen these things happen and repeating what someone else has said. Oh, and no company is responsible for user-caused hardware malfunction. And what material would be ‘appropriate’ for not breaking? As far as I know, any device can break and it just depends on how much a user maintains their product.

So I am meant to take a picture of everything that happens? It is broken, he sat on it, because it is too weak and flimsy and made with crap materials to hold it together, what else do you need to know?

I have seen these things you imbesile. Again, why would I take photos? At the time, I never thought to bother taking photos because I would get caught in an argument "/

My friend, Asher sat on his iPod Nano (it was white) and it snapped.

My brothers girlfriend, Rachel, had an iPod mini which she had engraved. It locked and you couldn't restore it. The reset button would of been useful, if it wasn't hidden and actually worked (hitting the menu and middle button simutaneously). This was suseless, because the whole ring was locked. If Apple had brains, they would have a seperate one which could work on a different circle to reset it.

My friend Nick's iPod Nano (8 GB black) descided it didn't want to turn off when he held down the button that turns it off, it flashed a few times, but never went off. He had to wait for it to turn itself off automatically.

I personally, am not snap happy enough to go "Oh, that's cool let me take a photo" even though you can't take a photo of something that isn't obvious. I would of had to of film it really "/

Updates are necessary to keep devices working properly. But of course, like most people, you don’t care about updates because it ‘doesn’t seem necessary’. Don’t fix it if it ain’t broken, right? NO. “/ A lot of people seem to have your way of thinking when it comes to these devices, and its why these people usually come across a lot of issues, and why Apple does this automatically. Many functions are improved during updates and they provide for a better user experience and ameliorate issues that would otherwise cause bigger issues that would cost the company more money (ie- a company that never issued an update for a device would require more customer service employees because more people are complaining about a glitch the device is suffering from, which could’ve easily been fixed via updating.), and the customer would be dissatisfied with the product. Apple automatically does this in order to have their products working without giving people the inconvenience of ‘scavenger hunting’ for solutions to issues that were fixed in a previous update. “/

Christ what is wrong with you? I keep saying this, if it hasn't got any problems, you don't need to update it. It won't magically crash for no reason, something has to be done to it by the user, and considering Creative Media Source filters everything that goes into the Zen, it is unlikely anything would be uploaded to do harm to the player. And you seem to missing out the point that I asked tech support at Creative and they said to have the update only if it is necessary to you, the user. But you seem to miss out this fact. In gasic, simplest form, if it is something like the screen cracking, send it to Creative or the company of the Media Plyer and they're replace whatever is needed. An update isn't as important as you think it is "/

What could possibly be improved. "Get this update, because it makes the sound, sound better" even though it is ok as it is? Unless they add something new, then it is probably the time to get an update, rather than when they are updating a certain thing on the MP3 Player.

[HUGECOOL]

I was considering the Computer world, not the companies as a whole. I probably should of mentioned that How the products work out of the box? I've seen more iPod issues than Creative or Sony issues combined "/ It is also extremely easy to install music into your Zen... You connect it either as it is, or put it as a removeable disk and add the music by clicking upload?

Creative and Sony never saw the need to advertise their products, Apple desperately needed to. I always knew about Apple? Although it probably depends on how easily it was to come by one. When the iPod was released, for about a year or 2 all you could see was iPod advertised

When a product gets popular, it is hard not to notice issues that arise from it. Take Windows for example. If an issue was to arise in Windows, people would announce the severity of the issue to draw attention to the problem. So its not surprising that you've noticed more issues on the iPod than on a Zen or a Sony music player- the iPod is by far more popular, so the number of times an issue arises would be more common. "/ Also, you don't install music- they're not programs.

Actually, Creative launched their $100 million marketing campaign in 2004 for various of their music players. "/ Apple marketing has been way different than just commercials and ads on the paper. Apple's first victory over another music player company was in 2002, when they beat Creative and their hard-drive MP3 player even though it was a cheaper alternative. The secret weapon? The marketing team behind iPod managed to promote the idea that iPod is not just an equipment for playing music, but a whole concept. In December 2002, Apple released iPod models that had the autographs of stars like Madonna, Beck, Tony Hawk and No Doubt. All the celebrities fell in love with the little player, which made a career in video clips, music magazine, even at Oprah’s shows. Because of this, the mainstream became aware of the product in the celebrity world and effectively popularizing the iPod. All companies need advertising, but some do it better than others.

So Microsoft expected that an MP3 player, which has a load of competitors, would take off immediately? I can't see anyone dropping their Zen, iPod or Sony bean or whatever it is, for a Zune immediately "/ That's not how consumers work...

Yes, they actually would. The product, as I said before, was dubbed an 'iPod-killer' because it was thought that it could effectively turn Apple on their head and drive the masses to their product. Hell, I bought a Zune when it came out. "/ It was crap, so I returned it. The Zune's marketing was there as well. "Welcome to the Social" was the main message. But apparently, you can't be in the social unless you're DRM'ed to death by Microsoft. "/

It was argued that Macs get more updates, then it got lowered to they both have roughly the same. And whining? Hardly "/

Comparing the two, and seeing them compared, I'll pick Windows, simply because it does everything at an average level (which is between 4-6). If I wanted something else, I'll download it "/ I also have more use with Microsoft Offices tools, because I cannot use the Apple equivilent because I've never learnt how to use then and I wouldn't be able to send it to college or other people, who all use Windows systems "/

More businesses use Windows, so I'll use Windows incase I ever need to write something to send to a business or company.

Uh, the equivelent to Microsoft office on Windows is Microsoft Office on OS X. "/ It's the same product on another platform, so I don't knwo how you think they're different. The formats used are completely compatible with Windows, so I don't see a need to complain. The only difference is that it looks better. "/

No, I would be reproducing what I've read and researched. But I can see why you would want to drop it. They're both different systems which have uses for different people.

Not really, researching a product is vastly different to using it. I've used Windows for 9 years (I still do) and Mac for only 3, and I have enough experience in both systems to honestly describe the experience on both platforms, and arguing with someone with basic experience in only one of those platforms will only be exhausting and will end in an infinite loop.

Let's say you went to Law School and graduated. Then a layman comes along and starts telling you how to practice law. Wouldn't you become defensive of your education and tell them otherwise? But they continue to argue with you because they've read on the subject on several occasions and feel their knowledge in law is sufficient enough to tell you right from wrong, even though they're incorrect.

That is why I chose not to argue with you on operating systems, their capabilities, or flaws.

Windows still blows Apple out of the competition in some areas. It all depends on what the user needs at the end of the day.

And Mac OS X does the same on the the remaining categories. What's your point? Mac OS X still wins in the end.

Ah but that means I don't need it "/ I don't need to experience a Mac fully to understand the differences between the two systems. Half the time, my criticisms are with facts that are obviously wrong because they go against common sense, knowledge and physics. If it is regurgitating, it means I already know some parts of it and understand how it runs depending on what you've read. You've done it with the sources you've read.

Actually, yes you do. You can make all the claims you want, cite all the sources in the world opposing the product, but if you have no experience with the subject at hand, your arguments are pointless because your experience with it doesn't justify why you'd be opposing it, since you've never had an issue arise while you used the product and basing an argument on how someone else once used it and encountered an issue, and making that situation the basis of a long argument you know nothing about, does not equal to fully understanding the differences between the two o/s's. It's like gossip, and the only justification you have to your arguements is word of mouth.

You could simply recover the computer? Why would an illeterate person touch them? If you're a parent, you could put controls on to stop children deleting them, if they even know how to find "/ If you're a bit more amture, you just wouldn't touch anything you don't know what you're touching.

Again, it depends on the user. If you were advanced, you could play around with the System folder till your heart content, personalising everything. If not, you leave it, simple.

No, it's not that simple.

Why have the inconvenience of needing to recover the computer in the first place, when the whole situation could've been eliminated by not shwoing users important files that they won't even need to interact with in the first place? "/ I said computer-illiterate, or someone with very little knowledge of computers or how to use them. If it was as simple as leaving the system folder alone, computer companies and Internet providers everywhere wouldn't have to hear these problems all the time. "/ But they do, and not surprisingly, most are on a Windows PC.

As you certainly know I don't know much about computers, I only know a certain amount. Not .exe programs are trojans etc "/ .exe files are programs files. Like if I download Zone Alarm for example, that comes as a .exe files which de-compresses itself.

And it is obvious that trojans, viruses and spyware are bad, by definition mainly.

I read a magazine about the two combined in terms of hardware more than software, which the source you gave doesn't describe.

Basically, if you have a problem with a Windows System, it is probably alot easier to sort out than what would happen with a Mac, because they're harder to fix. Although you get Trojans, Viruses and Spyware, this doesn't make them completely better than Windows. They're easier to upgrade in comparison while a Mac is limited and the hardware compatibility is useless.

If you want to implement an idea, it is best with a PC, because it is easier to create an application due to it having more programs available for it because in comparison to Macs, more people use Windows and has alot more authering tools on it. It is also backwards compatible, which Macs isn't fully. There are more programming languages in a Windows to a Mac."

Although, after reading further, I noticed that the argument just loops. So we may aswell let the OS argument die, because we'll be arguing way after this debate dies.

Most malware comes in .exe form because its actually a program. It also easily dupes people into thinking its a normal application when in act its not, and therefore successfully infecting the host computer that runs it, and usually Windows-based.

The source I gave you does not compare computer hardware because, first and foremost, Microsoft does not have their own computer brand- they only make the software. Second, it's because the site only compares the operating systems as a user would compare them in terms of usability, productivity, and out-of-the-box experience.

It's not that Macs are harder to fix, its that parts for Mac computers are not as widely sold as regular computer parts. Upgrade-wise, it can be done, but only on the higher tier Macs which offer more expansion bays and support for non-Mac proprietary hardware. (My macpro can hold up to 16GB of RAM, compared to the 8GB max on a Windows PC. But let's not delve so far into this..)

I wouldn't say it is faster really "/ Pushing the screen is just like pushing a button in some ways. Like the contacts, which is down on the joystick or arrow keys and scroll. Only difference is where the iPhone you don't have to scroll in some cases in a small menu and you just need to press the screen. It doesn't make it all that faster.

To search for a contact on a phone, most people will just scroll down until they reach the contact as opposed to pressing the keypad with the corresponding letter. The scroll function is quicker on the iPhone because it has a roulette effect where contacts will be scrolled depending on how fast or slow a user flicks their finger, and stopped when the user pushes down on the screen.

I never praised the camera though A product doesn't have to be better in everyway to be overally better. It can be on the same level "/

So why is the iPhone any different? That just contradicts everything you've said that opposes the iPhone.

Just because it has been used before doesn't make it old. It hasn't be around for long, which makes it new. It doesn't come down to whether it has been used before "/

o_O I never said it was old, lol. I emphesized the technology being new, to which you agreed saying you never said it was never used before.

I'll get this information next time I see my friend as you might know as Mentor. He had a link to a company who does reviews in magazines which compared the Zen, the Sony Walkman and the iPod. I'll either PM you it or reply when you've replied

Well, look no further. http://www.cnet.com.au/mp3players/mp...0055443,00.htm
That's the review Mentor has shown me before, and the review you're most likely talking about. Oh, and it's from 2005- two years ago, and it was reviewing the iPod Photo, not the Video which substantionally improved in sound quality. "/ (Oh, and r.i.p James Kim, the editor of the article, who died in Decemeber 2006.)

There is about 3 arguments going. One on Windows vs OS X, another on Zen vs iPod and another on the iPhone vs other phones. It started back ages ago, so we might aswell stick to it "/ I always get the off button wrong for an iPod, but the poitn still remains, if you want it off straight away, you have to press and hold a button down, while with other MP3 players, you can just press a button. I think iPod was trying to make a new way of turning something off, without thinking how quick and easy it is to do. Even though holding a button isn't hard.

Well, I guess you concluded your own argument- holding a button isn't hard so it isn't an issue. "/

But you can't really say you need to use the internet in the same extent as you would on your home PC? Considering it costs, it is easier just to use a laptop or Home PC. Also, having a full browser on present day mobile phones is useless, the screens are too small. I think the barrier for small phones is being broken down, which is where the iPhone comes along with the screen for it.

Since the iPhone uses wireless Internet when available, it won't cost you an arm and a leg to use the net on the go. It's also way more portable on the iPhone than it would be on a laptop.

Hmmm, although this feature is good, it is useless in most parts of Britian. There isn't alot of free internet connections we can connect to, unless they can get passed security? Britain pretty much sucks compared to some places where there is networks that are free to use. I don't know much about the US, so answer me this.

Does the US have networks nearly anywhere in city areas that are free to connect to?

Most office buildings never have security on their WAPs so anyone can pretty much use their connection. I can go around with my laptop and find at least one or two stray hotspots whereever I'm at. There are tons of Starbucks coffee shops here as well, and all of them have Internet access. So do many McDonald's here. (Nintendo and McDonalds provide free WiFi mostly for the Nintendo DS, but anyone can use it.)

Well, I was dragged into discussing how a computer works when I only have limited amount of knowledge on them "/ And the source you may have given was probably for the argument about computers, but it doesn't mean I can't use it "/

As I said before, you can use all the sources you want, but you won't know what you're actually talking about until you've used the product.

Not just my opinions, loads of peoples opinions. From official reviews to user reviews, which are probably more important tha official ones, because they're done freely. My arguments are probably bull crap, but they still give out pretty good points

Reviews for what are you talking about? The iPhone? Because it isn't out yet. ;/ Mac OS X? Theres too many reviews of it to distinguish a good one from a bad one because lots of false information has reached people with no Mac experience (ie- you).

I assumed that the iPhone would actually have this technology, most phones and even MP3 players do... It wasn't an opinion, it was an assumption which I thought was obvious, but it seems the iPhone is about as primative as a Sony Ericsson k800i "/ Only advantage is that the iPhone has a full browser "/ This is, of course, missing out the new technology of connecting to Wireless Networks and the touch-pad.

Photo editing on a phone is as pointless as the MotoMixer on Motorola phones. Now, I don't know if the iPhone has a photo editor because I've never heard any being mentioned. "/ And it was an opinion when you said it would be as bad as photo editing on a Mac. When you said 'it would be as bad' <- that would be the opinion. "/

Not if it is exact I can take the idea of the Creative scroll technology and plant Apple on it and make it so it uses a wheel as opposed to a line like Creative has. Hey presto, the Apple iPod has a new feature


Also, say you have an idea of a Golden Mountain. That is taken from somethings in exitence. The colour gold and a mountain. That theory has been around since the Philosopher Hume "/ Pretty obvious nowadays.

Uh, no. If the technology behind the Apple's wheel was the same as Creative's strip, it's copyright infringement of their technology. But if both technologies used a similar technology belonging to antoher company, they'd have to buy licensing in order to use it. "/

And because Hume talks about things in general, not specific ideas, his theories would not apply. then you have the whole patenting offices and makign sure the idea wasn't thought of before creating it, otherwise, you can legally be sued for it.

So you work for iPhone and know how it was created? They probably looked at a PDA and noticed how you can use it as a touch screen. With this, they probably built on this idea. Like, using two finger and making it multi-touch compatible and then developed it further so you can then slide your finger when it is held on a switch.

I've just noticed, that you've contradicted yourself in that last comment...

If it was made out of thin air, you would know. This hardly seems like it was, because something similar has been around for ages. They've just improved on the idea.

No, I came across the article which explained how the screen for the iPhone came to be.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0357/-1/NEWS01

I said they developed the screen =/= inventing. They developed a screen for the iPhone by innovating on an idea already in existance through different technologies. "/

I was describing one of the actions I witnessed in the video, not the whole phone itself "/

"which longate the browsing time to get to a certain menu you want"

Which two-figner action did you see that required multiple menus to be looked through? "/

The only two-finger input I saw was when zooming in on an image.

I don't need to try one out? I've used phones before and know how they could improve. Only amazing thing about the iPhone so far is the multi touch-screen, which is genious. Just a pity nothing else is amazing about it.

So whatever you saw that was needed to improve should be the only things improved on a phone? So, did you also think of multi-touch and visual voice mail? "/

So it doesn't?! The iPhone is getting a bit basic now... It doesn't need a fully fledged one to do stuff like that "/ On some phones, you get a very basic one which does stuff like that.

And I said before, I wasn't claiming that the iPhone doesn't have this, just that I've never heard of this before. "/

So how comes you said that resizing images is something it does?

I said 'resizing the size between your thumb and index finger' to zoom in or out of photos. oO

So you made something up on the spot there, so it seems and you said in a previous paragraph that I supposedly travelled to the future to try one out

Again, resizing the size between your thumb and index finger.

They can't be called "pre-installed mobile applications" because for the simple, obvious reason that no where in that name is there anything to do with quantity... That's what you would call the applications that come with the phone, not what you call a phone which can have lots of applications

No? How about the fact that the term is plural, thereby implying that it's more than one object. "/ it if were one it would simply be 'application'.

It isn't much though? It is just another Apple product, it being an Apple product is why people are so crazy about it. If it was something else, less people would care. You know what you are talking about? You didn't even know much about phones before this "/ The contacts argument below somewhere is where you don't know what you're talking about "/

lol I don't even think you knew what you were talking about there. I was referring to you when you said that that the Prada phone had multi-touch, to which I said that it would only be an advanced touch screen (not multi-touch), and you said it was still new technology- and my responses was that even if its new, it isnt multi-touch. So why are you talking about Apple? o_O

Because some phones need applications which only come in a single form. Like Bluetooth Messenger, Face Warp, HP Print, Photo Mate etc all have different uses, which you can't really combine unless the company behinds them descides to move into new things? So the quanity and quality are irrelevant, because you can have a high quanity of applications which deliver high quality results.

And how many phones actually provide these features out of the box, without having to download anything? "/

Yes, every phone has fading out when a call comes in. It's been around for ages, we established that... How do you know it has this option? It still sounds a bit dull, 4 environments? I am sure it has more applications on it than that which you might need to return to without closing?

4 modes with their own functionality. There is Contacts, Phone, Maps, and iPod. Each of these modes can be doing doing while going away to do something else. When returning, the menu is displayed where it was left off. The othe rone would be the main menu for widgets which are used for quick viewing. "/

How did you make that idea up? I said it would be an excellent feature, considering the iPhone is meant to be the next best thing to hit the phone industry "/ I don't assume it will have it, because it is obvious it hasn't got it.

So you have to use iTunes to make a playlists? Wow, the iPhone is looking worse now... With other MP3 Players, you can make playlists on the media player itself? You can make playlists miles away from the computer? So if you need it for the iPhone, you're stuffed?

And the iPHONE's main functionality is being an MP3 player? And playlists can be made on the iPhone manually, but not smart playlists which is what I thought you meant. "/

Faster than before?! LOL, are you being serious?! With an ordinary phone, you go to contacts and type the first letter of the contact and it lists them. This is about 10 times faster than the scroll

You obviously have not used a phone before...

A phone with no keypad CANNOT use a keypad for finding contacts. "/ And it's faster because even if you provide keypad input to find a contact by their name, you still have to find the contact themselves among others. "/

Sat navs display maps, which means it uses a map system? And why would you need a satellite image? It seems pretty pointless really. "Looks, this is how big my garden is." Just a pointless tool really, only use is the maps system, the satellite views are useless. Although you can't really remove this from Google Maps, because it comes with it.

How are satellite images useful?? Oh, I don't know, maybe because they can allow you to view a place before actually going there?? "/ On the keynote, Jobs used Google Maps to locate all the Starbucks in San Francisco. He then located the one he wanted and called the location simply by clickin on the dot the location was on. I don't know how you can say this isn't useful if people use Google Maps by the thousands on a daily basis. "/

Well if you meant everything about the iPhone, why couldn't you just use the word "seem?" Which covers everything really "/ And how does the iPhone seem any better? That phone has what the iPhone has and more? Although the iPhone uses the iPod and this phone an MP£ player, they're still the same. They both play music.

Personally, I can't see how it can look any worse. Most the time, concept designs, models and the like end up looking alot of different. Which is what you said, but you did it in such a negative way, rather than a neutral way. The phone could look nice, shaped like a phone, than a Toblerone bar...

I'm basing my information on common sense, facts, reviews and the damn right obvious. And twit isn't name calling, more like using a word on someone who cannot understand the obvious "/

As I said before (many, many times before). The argument is not the technology the phone uses, but how that technology is implemented to work on the phone. "/

Concept designs are always meant to look good because everything that will eventually be used in the final product is not included on the product and its just for demonstration, not functionality. Common senses tells you that more mechanisms will be added to the phone for more functionality and thereby making the phone much larger.

So can I call you a *******, because both words basically mean the same thing in a more explicit manner, and it wouldn't be far from the truth. "/

Negative side? That it is "big?" Hardly, at least it is properly designed to slip into a pocket, nicely fits and has been designed to withstand drops to the floor and being sat on, like the iPod Nano seems to be not very good at. Considering loads of reviews on the thing have been "the screen snapped," "I've had loads of Nanos, they've all snapped" and then they end up getting a Samsung MP3 player "/

I don't put my zen in my pocket, I never pay attention listening to music when I walk, so it sits in my bag, like loads of people do with any MP3 player, unless they walk around listening to their music.

Considering a jean/tracksuit or any other trouser pocket is too small, yes I do think it would be wise to put it in a coat pocket or bag, unless you want to hold it?

You must have pretty big pockets over there "/ Can you also have keys, a mobile or a wallet in those pockets too? Although the iPhone is a mobile and an MP3 player, you now have to considering how tall it is. If you sit properly, your trouser pocket goes into an L shape where your hips and upper leg bend. With an iPhone in, which is takes about as much room as your pocket, it won't be able to blend. Plus, it would also be uncomfortable to have in your pocket.

I may just cut a CD case up to the dimensions listed, and see what it is like, but I am not sure if I want to go that level on an internet debate really

??
You on the Zen:
"at least it is properly designed to slip into a pocket, nicely fits.." ('nicely fits' implies that you've put a Zen in your pocket and have concluded that they are comfortable)
then..
"I don't put my zen in my pocket, I never pay attention listening to music when I walk, so it sits in my bag.."

So which one is it- do you put it in your pocket or not? And the reason iPods fit in your pocket (iPod Videos) is because they're slim, which the Zens are not. "/ So why would you want to put something thicker than an iPod in your pocket after saying iPods are too big? "/

Pockets aren't big- just deep. Any pocket can fit a cell phone, iPod, or keys (not all at once) comfortably. "/ Unless you wear those skin-tight jeans, which no one can actually fit in comfortably. And your pocket is actually aligned to the front of your thigh, not the side, so anything inside the pocket would be actually resting on your thigh when sitting. ;/

That's what sizeeasy.com is for. "/

Considering I didn't use that site, I got a ruler out. It's still thin "/ and considering the length and if you know anything about physics, it is still likely to snap under pressure, whether or not it is forced upon.

So, by your reasoning, iPod Videos should snap when you put them in your pocket, because they're as thin as the iPhone. "/

As stated below, the new aluminium enclosure is crap? And aluminium isn't a hard metal either? Play with a can next time, you'll notice.

lol they're not the same kind of aluminium. It's like saying computer material is crap because its made of plastic, and I've used plastic drinking straws and they're not durable at all. "/ The densities of material is different so the results are very drastic. But that should be logic, not soemthing needing an explanation.

You also seem to not notice common sense, which is kinda more important than facts and sources. You also don't know how to form someone elses idea. It happens all the time in the world, when someone says something, you think of the probabilities and pick out which one they are obviously talking about "/ Not only does it mean you are clever enough to understand what someone means, it also means you can save alot less time writing.

Common sense would be knowing what action to take upon reaction of something. Since I am responding to your post, I'm using common sense to do so (because it was directed at me). And I ask for sources of things because you've already been incorrect several times because I've proved you wrong. "/

So I am meant to take a picture of everything that happens? It is broken, he sat on it, because it is too weak and flimsy and made with crap materials to hold it together, what else do you need to know?

I have seen these things you imbesile. Again, why would I take photos? At the time, I never thought to bother taking photos because I would get caught in an argument "/

My friend, Asher sat on his iPod Nano (it was white) and it snapped.

My brothers girlfriend, Rachel, had an iPod mini which she had engraved. It locked and you couldn't restore it. The reset button would of been useful, if it wasn't hidden and actually worked (hitting the menu and middle button simutaneously). This was suseless, because the whole ring was locked. If Apple had brains, they would have a seperate one which could work on a different circle to reset it.

My friend Nick's iPod Nano (8 GB black) descided it didn't want to turn off when he held down the button that turns it off, it flashed a few times, but never went off. He had to wait for it to turn itself off automatically.

I personally, am not snap happy enough to go "Oh, that's cool let me take a photo" even though you can't take a photo of something that isn't obvious. I would of had to of film it really "/

I never said anything about photos? "/ The Internet is great for finding stuff like this. People will usually whine about it on their personal blog and so looking for these things should be easy if they actually happened. So by proving your findings I meant sourcing people on this, not telling me things that happened to your friends. I too can claim my friends had x brand mp3 player and it broke, malfunctioned, and exploded. Does that mean it happened because I'm saying it did? So having a situation you can't actually claim as your source cannot be held in debate simply because the instance cannot be proven factual or false. "/

Oh, and on 'Rachels' iPod, did you geniuses ever try unlocking it first? :rolleyes:

Christ what is wrong with you? I keep saying this, if it hasn't got any problems, you don't need to update it. It won't magically crash for no reason, something has to be done to it by the user, and considering Creative Media Source filters everything that goes into the Zen, it is unlikely anything would be uploaded to do harm to the player. And you seem to missing out the point that I asked tech support at Creative and they said to have the update only if it is necessary to you, the user. But you seem to miss out this fact. In gasic, simplest form, if it is something like the screen cracking, send it to Creative or the company of the Media Plyer and they're replace whatever is needed. An update isn't as important as you think it is "/

What could possibly be improved. "Get this update, because it makes the sound, sound better" even though it is ok as it is? Unless they add something new, then it is probably the time to get an update, rather than when they are updating a certain thing on the MP3 Player.

And again, I'll ignore your reasoning because I know that customer service is popular because of people like you. Firmware updates are like computer updates (Windows Updates, etc). They fix issues that would otherwise go unnoticed by the user to improve the performance of the product. Even though the computer itself is working perfectly, updates are still needed for best performance. "/ Which is why your reasoning is stupid. You don't only need updates when the whole product decides to crap up. "/

[alexxxxx]

I haven't read the whole thread.

But y'know. I use my mac, and only on rare occasions does it crash, I can do my coursework on it, I can use msn, I can play The Sims 2, not compatible with some websites =[, I surf the web, it plays music across my house. It's got loads of other features I use. It's not for everyone, I understand, but it does everything I want it to do, which makes it a good product for myself.

iPod/iTunes - I used to have a shuffle. I found it good for what I wanted it to do, it played my music. iTunes though, i found incredibly annoying, simply because I can't have my music I bought on MP3, for use on other applications. It annoys me. But it looks good and works well.

iPhone - Looks great, and I assume it'll sync like a charm to a Mac, it looks stunning, but only sales and reviews will show how good the product is really is when it comes out. You can't really judge a product before it comes out.

[GommeInc]

When a product gets popular, it is hard not to notice issues that arise from it. Take Windows for example. If an issue was to arise in Windows, people would announce the severity of the issue to draw attention to the problem. So its not surprising that you've noticed more issues on the iPod than on a Zen or a Sony music player- the iPod is by far more popular, so the number of times an issue arises would be more common. "/ Also, you don't install music- they're not programs.

In a small group you can notice the problems "/ That's how some surveyors get the information with products, by analyzing small groups at a time to pick out the pros and cons. Say for example you take 6 people, 3 with one company and 3 with another. You tally the problems and get the outcome. Obviously you wouldn't count all of them globally, because it is a waste of effort and time, because in that time the information would become invalid if the product is updated.

Although the iPod is popular, it still means that each iPod is the same. If Apple let a completely trashed iPod go, they should have the brains to stop manufacteur to see if the whole batch has an error, as do most companies. When you get reviews on an iPod, there are about 5 times more reports on it than a Zen, which would get one or two. This can indicate that an iPod is prone to more problems than a Zen (or other company). t's the fact that the iPod has more obvious flaws than a Zen. A Zen is created to withstand day to day life. The iPod was designed to look pretty above most things "/

Actually, Creative launched their $100 million marketing campaign in 2004 for various of their music players. "/ Apple marketing has been way different than just commercials and ads on the paper. Apple's first victory over another music player company was in 2002, when they beat Creative and their hard-drive MP3 player even though it was a cheaper alternative. The secret weapon? The marketing team behind iPod managed to promote the idea that iPod is not just an equipment for playing music, but a whole concept. In December 2002, Apple released iPod models that had the autographs of stars like Madonna, Beck, Tony Hawk and No Doubt. All the celebrities fell in love with the little player, which made a career in video clips, music magazine, even at Oprah’s shows. Because of this, the mainstream became aware of the product in the celebrity world and effectively popularizing the iPod. All companies need advertising, but some do it better than others.

Apple advertised the iPod at the right time to the right people, but it still doesn't mean the product is any better. Mc Donalds gets celebs, cartoons etc to appear on their products, doesn't mean the food is any better, obviously "/

Sony, Creative, Samsung and so on never needed to advertise, because they were already well known, which is probably where they went wrong. Apple still has loads of battles go on, like this download issues where if you download from iTunes, you cannot play the music on any other MP3 player. They will always be known to some people for copying an idea from one company and effectively winning the battle by notoriously making up at the last minute that they used the technology for years, even though it hasn't. They will always be known to be designed impractical for most users. The only sturdy iPod which I liked was the iPod mini, because it was built nicely and noticebly didn't crash/break/snap like the replacement iPod nano "/

Yes, they actually would. The product, as I said before, was dubbed an 'iPod-killer' because it was thought that it could effectively turn Apple on their head and drive the masses to their product. Hell, I bought a Zune when it came out. "/ It was crap, so I returned it. The Zune's marketing was there as well. "Welcome to the Social" was the main message. But apparently, you can't be in the social unless you're DRM'ed to death by Microsoft. "/

Wishful thinking on Microsofts part by the looks of it "/ And looking at reports from France and other European country, Apple doesn't believe in FairPlay with their "un-social" DRM "/ So if you want a song from iTunes, you have to go use another company. So Apple are just doing anti-competitive behaviour.

Uh, the equivelent to Microsoft office on Windows is Microsoft Office on OS X. "/ It's the same product on another platform, so I don't knwo how you think they're different. The formats used are completely compatible with Windows, so I don't see a need to complain. The only difference is that it looks better. "/

Before this, Apple had their own Microsoft Office called AppleWorks? They still have this I believe, but Apple knew it was crap so they knew what the next best thing was to do, get Microsoft Office, which is used globally by lots of people.

Not really, researching a product is vastly different to using it. I've used Windows for 9 years (I still do) and Mac for only 3, and I have enough experience in both systems to honestly describe the experience on both platforms, and arguing with someone with basic experience in only one of those platforms will only be exhausting and will end in an infinite loop.

I don't even know how I got dragged into the OS argument, I only described the basic information that I know, but the argument developed and I got sucked into it.

Let's say you went to Law School and graduated. Then a layman comes along and starts telling you how to practice law. Wouldn't you become defensive of your education and tell them otherwise? But they continue to argue with you because they've read on the subject on several occasions and feel their knowledge in law is sufficient enough to tell you right from wrong, even though they're incorrect.

He may know just about as you "/ You could study alot at home about Law and still achieve about as good knowledge as a Graduate. This is where Home School comes in. You can learn to do your GCSE's at hoome and still take the exam and pass with flying colours. So this argument is flawed "/

That is why I chose not to argue with you on operating systems, their capabilities, or flaws.

Which I agree on, it's all down to what a user wishes to do with a system.

And Mac OS X does the same on the the remaining categories. What's your point? Mac OS X still wins in the end.

The point is, that Windows is better with what you can do with the system, while OS X is all down to how far you can go because Macs block off areas. More companies are capable of infinitely editting a Windows System to however they please, than what they can do with a Mac. Macs are harder to upgrade hardware wise than a Windows System.

Actually, yes you do. You can make all the claims you want, cite all the sources in the world opposing the product, but if you have no experience with the subject at hand, your arguments are pointless because your experience with it doesn't justify why you'd be opposing it, since you've never had an issue arise while you used the product and basing an argument on how someone else once used it and encountered an issue, and making that situation the basis of a long argument you know nothing about, does not equal to fully understanding the differences between the two o/s's. It's like gossip, and the only justification you have to your arguements is word of mouth.

You don't need experience with something "/ So you're the sort that would drink acid just to know it can kill you? You can use reason in an argument, it is just as good as experience "/ And I've used someone else? No, I've gathered information from loads of people as sources to get an outcome for the argument and how they are run. Apple are an anti-competitive company who are trying to be the best by doing everything, which is actually against the law, by trying to control a whole consumer environment. Choice is what is needed, not everything being Apple Products "/

No, it's not that simple.

Why have the inconvenience of needing to recover the computer in the first place, when the whole situation could've been eliminated by not shwoing users important files that they won't even need to interact with in the first place? "/ I said computer-illiterate, or someone with very little knowledge of computers or how to use them. If it was as simple as leaving the system folder alone, computer companies and Internet providers everywhere wouldn't have to hear these problems all the time. "/ But they do, and not surprisingly, most are on a Windows PC.

It's as simple as having common sense as to not touch stuff you don't know what you're doing. You have to be pretty thick if you see something and descide to delete it "/ And some users do play around with those folders, but they're normally advanced. Again, it is the users fault if they are dumb enough to delete stuff they have no idea what they're doing. If you don't know what it is, leave it. You can hide these folders away with proper administrative tools. It is, what theya re there for "/

So it is simple "/

Most malware comes in .exe form because its actually a program. It also easily dupes people into thinking its a normal application when in act its not, and therefore successfully infecting the host computer that runs it, and usually Windows-based.

People are often told to get a proper working spyware and firewall on their computers, if they are dumb enough to ignore this, they probably deserved it and possibly have nothing important on the system in the long run worth protecting anyway.

I also read yesterday on my Wii that Vista comes with a built in Spyware program, which sounds interesting. But I will wait until all the bugs are fixed until I get it.

The source I gave you does not compare computer hardware because, first and foremost, Microsoft does not have their own computer brand- they only make the software. Second, it's because the site only compares the operating systems as a user would compare them in terms of usability, productivity, and out-of-the-box experience.

Hardware is something a user would need for usability, productivity and out-of-the-box experience "/ Without it, you won't have anything to use, it would just be a blank screen "/ For example, RAM to speed up the computer which makes it faster to use and therefore increases productivity "/

It's not that Macs are harder to fix, its that parts for Mac computers are not as widely sold as regular computer parts. Upgrade-wise, it can be done, but only on the higher tier Macs which offer more expansion bays and support for non-Mac proprietary hardware. (My macpro can hold up to 16GB of RAM, compared to the 8GB max on a Windows PC. But let's not delve so far into this..)

Vista systems can handle far more than 16GB of RAM, but it will costs alot and there is no where to put all the hardware into it. And I agree, delving into this which just be another "this system does roughly the same as this." So the argument which just turn into another argument which will get us off the original argument, which seems to be buried somewhere...

To search for a contact on a phone, most people will just scroll down until they reach the contact as opposed to pressing the keypad with the corresponding letter. The scroll function is quicker on the iPhone because it has a roulette effect where contacts will be scrolled depending on how fast or slow a user flicks their finger, and stopped when the user pushes down on the screen.

Loads of people press the first letter of the contact, the only person I know who doesn't is my mum, who does now because she spent ages looking for a contact and I told her to press the first initial "/ It does have quite a fast scrool action the iPhone, but it is still faster to just type the first letter of the contact in the long run. Especially if you have lots of contact. It will just be tiring and wasteful time, where you need to make that quick phone call:

"Agghh! I need to phone my nan!" *scrolls up* "Nope, that Barbara" *scrolls more* "Nope, thats Fred" *scrolls more* "Nope, that's Jess"

I could go on for ages, but you should hopefully get the point.

So why is the iPhone any different? That just contradicts everything you've said that opposes the iPhone.

Not really? I never praised the Prada phones camera, I was praising the fact that it looks more impressive and has what the iPhone has (expect multi-touch screen) and it is coming out before the iPhone. I never said it was 100% better "/

o_O I never said it was old, lol. I emphesized the technology being new, to which you agreed saying you never said it was never used before.

So where did this argument come from? Were we agreeing to the same thing but discussing it as if we weren't?

Well, look no further. http://www.cnet.com.au/mp3players/mp...0055443,00.htm
That's the review Mentor has shown me before, and the review you're most likely talking about. Oh, and it's from 2005- two years ago, and it was reviewing the iPod Photo, not the Video which substantionally improved in sound quality. "/ (Oh, and r.i.p James Kim, the editor of the article, who died in Decemeber 2006.)

It does look familiar, so I'll go with that. It still proves that reviews Apple did on their product were biased, rather than truthful. Apple were said that the iPod was the best sounding MP3 player when it was released. But Sony has, and possibily still is, the best soudning MP3 player out there.

Well, I guess you concluded your own argument- holding a button isn't hard so it isn't an issue. "/

It's not, but just pressing a button or flicking a switch is easier than holding a button which already has a purpose.

Since the iPhone uses wireless Internet when available, it won't cost you an arm and a leg to use the net on the go. It's also way more portable on the iPhone than it would be on a laptop.

But in most countries, Wireless Internet is hard to come by which is actually free and easy to use. It would be great in places like North (or South, can't remember) Korea and parts of America, but in Britain, you'll just have to pay for it, and us Brits can be very picky about this It'll be easier just to use at home, where you can save the files and work just a tab more easily with a full keyboard, than the iPhone keypad.

Most office buildings never have security on their WAPs so anyone can pretty much use their connection. I can go around with my laptop and find at least one or two stray hotspots whereever I'm at. There are tons of Starbucks coffee shops here as well, and all of them have Internet access. So do many McDonald's here. (Nintendo and McDonalds provide free WiFi mostly for the Nintendo DS, but anyone can use it.)

Pffft, you're lucky. At UK Starbucks, you have to pay and most Wireless Connections are passwrod protected or locked down so you can't use them. Businesses ask you to input a username and password, which you can't easily get a hold of. It's very different here in the UK than there in the US.

As I said before, you can use all the sources you want, but you won't know what you're actually talking about until you've used the product.

You can still have some idea, so when you do use the product, you'll know near enough exactly what to do.

Reviews for what are you talking about? The iPhone? Because it isn't out yet. ;/ Mac OS X? Theres too many reviews of it to distinguish a good one from a bad one because lots of false information has reached people with no Mac experience (ie- you).[/.quote]
If they were false, they would be either removed from the website or argued against, and most the reviews are roughly the same in some areas, which hints they are true unless loads of people like wasting time posting false information "/ The iPhone isn't out yet, but you can just alot from videos and pre-release reviews from people who have used one for purposes of a review. As stated, you have to take longer finding a contact.

Photo editing on a phone is as pointless as the MotoMixer on Motorola phones. Now, I don't know if the iPhone has a photo editor because I've never heard any being mentioned. "/ And it was an opinion when you said it would be as bad as photo editing on a Mac. When you said 'it would be as bad' <- that would be the opinion. "/

Photo Editting on a phone makes it easier to edit a photo on the go so you don't have to take it home to edit a photo. You can change the contrast etc with it. It would be good with an iPhone, but nothing has been mentioned, so we'll have to wait.

Uh, no. If the technology behind the Apple's wheel was the same as Creative's strip, it's copyright infringement of their technology. But if both technologies used a similar technology belonging to antoher company, they'd have to buy licensing in order to use it. "/

Apple was proved to have stolen the technology from Creative Labs and had to fork out over $100,000 to pay for its use. And besides, you said earlier tha if you base an idea on something in existence, it would be copyright infringement. So you've contradicted yourself there.

"Ideas are taken from something already in existance? Wouldn't that be called copyright infringement? "/"

Is what you said. An idea and something similar are different.

And because Hume talks about things in general, not specific ideas, his theories would not apply. then you have the whole patenting offices and makign sure the idea wasn't thought of before creating it, otherwise, you can legally be sued for it.

Not necessarily his exact theories, but the idea behind them do apply.

No, I came across the article which explained how the screen for the iPhone came to be.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0357/-1/NEWS01

I said they developed the screen =/= inventing. They developed a screen for the iPhone by innovating on an idea already in existance through different technologies. "/

Hmmmm, fascinating. So the technology behind the multi-touch screen on the iPhone and Synaptic phone are from different sources, but are roughly the same? There is still a possibility that FingerWorks got the idea orignally from the touch-pad that Synpatics brought out when notebooks/laptops came around.

"which longate the browsing time to get to a certain menu you want"

Which two-figner action did you see that required multiple menus to be looked through? "/

The only two-finger input I saw was when zooming in on an image.

I saw it when he was holding down a button at the bottom of the iPhone and with the other he pressed an icon to open the iPod.

So whatever you saw that was needed to improve should be the only things improved on a phone? So, did you also think of multi-touch and visual voice mail? "/

Visual voice mail is just an improved idea on regular voice mail, nothing too spectacular and out of the ordinary about that "/

And I said before, I wasn't claiming that the iPhone doesn't have this, just that I've never heard of this before. "/

We'll just have to wait till it is released or more information comes out about it. Apple.com has hardly any information on it, like specifications. It just talks about products it has made already and the touch screen.

I said 'resizing the size between your thumb and index finger' to zoom in or out of photos. oO

That's not what you said, you said resizing the pictures, not the gap between your finger and thumb:

"All the videos I've seen with the iPhone, the user operates the phone with one finger, and two when resizing pictures."

Which was said on the other page "/

Again, resizing the size between your thumb and index finger.

So how comes you said it was for resizing the images :rolleyes:

No? How about the fact that the term is plural, thereby implying that it's more than one object. "/ it if were one it would simply be 'application'.

No, it still looks to me that you were talking about the applications already installed on the phone. It doesn't matter if a word has an "s" on the end, it still needs a word that describe "Something that can handle alot of applications on."

lol I don't even think you knew what you were talking about there. I was referring to you when you said that that the Prada phone had multi-touch, to which I said that it would only be an advanced touch screen (not multi-touch), and you said it was still new technology- and my responses was that even if its new, it isnt multi-touch. So why are you talking about Apple? o_O

Because it is still new technology, which an audience want? Regardless to whether it has multi-touch or not "/

And how many phones actually provide these features out of the box, without having to download anything? "/

Sony Ericsson k800i comes with:

Face Warp
HP Print
Photo Mate
Video DJ
Photo DJ
Music DJ
Radio
Bluetooth Remote Control
Sound Recorder

Mainly Sony phones "/

4 modes with their own functionality. There is Contacts, Phone, Maps, and iPod. Each of these modes can be doing doing while going away to do something else. When returning, the menu is displayed where it was left off. The othe rone would be the main menu for widgets which are used for quick viewing. "/

So it's basically another version of what Sony has on their phones of Running Apps, My Shorts cuts and so on?

And the iPHONE's main functionality is being an MP3 player? And playlists can be made on the iPhone manually, but not smart playlists which is what I thought you meant. "/

No, the main purpose of the iPhone is the fact it is a phone "/ How do you know playlists can be made manually? And what is the difference between smart playlists and regular playlists?

A phone with no keypad CANNOT use a keypad for finding contacts. "/ And it's faster because even if you provide keypad input to find a contact by their name, you still have to find the contact themselves among others. "/

A smart feature would be have a menu on the right or left hand side of the screen which has letters of the alphabet which can go straight to the menu. Plus, this argument of how quick it can do certain things came from your argument.

Then you scroll when you have the letter, it still makes it faster than the finger scroll "/ One click which is like a few scrolls with the finger if you are heading towards the middle of the alphabet, then a few small scrolls which still take a few finger scrolls on the iPhone. Do the math

How are satellite images useful?? Oh, I don't know, maybe because they can allow you to view a place before actually going there?? "/

This would be useless in Britain, Google Maps cannot zoom in close enough to see anything. When it does get close enough, it goes all blurry and you can't really notice anything "/ The iPhone is really only good in America, and London.

On the keynote, Jobs used Google Maps to locate all the Starbucks in San Francisco. He then located the one he wanted and called the location simply by clickin on the dot the location was on. I don't know how you can say this isn't useful if people use Google Maps by the thousands on a daily basis. "/

As stated, you can't see much in a blur "/ You would be better off using MultiMaps.com, Google Maps cannot zoom in close enough to get any good detail. And if you really wanted to know what a place looks like., surely you would want a more portrait view? Rather an overhead view? "This is a nice roof, let's go there!" This really only effects anyone who doesn't live in America.

As I said before (many, many times before). The argument is not the technology the phone uses, but how that technology is implemented to work on the phone. "/

And as I am stating, you cannot implement a tool any differently on the iPhone than you would on any other phone that may come out with the same features. "/

Concept designs are always meant to look good because everything that will eventually be used in the final product is not included on the product and its just for demonstration, not functionality. Common senses tells you that more mechanisms will be added to the phone for more functionality and thereby making the phone much larger.

So you are going against your idea that the phone would look like that when it is released and stating pretty much what I said?

So can I call you a *******, because both words basically mean the same thing in a more explicit manner, and it wouldn't be far from the truth. "/

Meh, go crazy

??
You on the Zen:
"at least it is properly designed to slip into a pocket, nicely fits.." ('nicely fits' implies that you've put a Zen in your pocket and have concluded that they are comfortable)
then..
"I don't put my zen in my pocket, I never pay attention listening to music when I walk, so it sits in my bag.."

Considering the height of it, it can fit in a pocket without a bit sticking out "/ When I did my Zen in my pocket, I was walking, which means my leg can freely move about, when I sat down it was uncomfortable and I just took it out and shuved it in my bag.

So which one is it- do you put it in your pocket or not? And the reason iPods fit in your pocket (iPod Videos) is because they're slim, which the Zens are not. "/ So why would you want to put something thicker than an iPod in your pocket after saying iPods are too big? "/

It goes in my bag normally, it depends if I am in a hurry and haven#t got the time to put it in my bag so I just run off with it in my hand put it in a trouser pcoket or coat pocket "/ The original argument was the iPhone I believe, not the iPod, even though iPod Nanos have been proven to snap in trouser pockets "/

Pockets aren't big- just deep. Any pocket can fit a cell phone, iPod, or keys (not all at once) comfortably. "/ Unless you wear those skin-tight jeans, which no one can actually fit in comfortably. And your pocket is actually aligned to the front of your thigh, not the side, so anything inside the pocket would be actually resting on your thigh when sitting. ;/

No I don't wear skin tight jeans, I like comfort rather than pain

Resting stuff on your thigh is worse to rest objects on inside your pocket "/ Because that's where it gets tight and naturally where you leg and hip bend. With pockets that aren't deep, the iPhone cannot fit comfortable unless you really want to see if it can bend.

That's what sizeeasy.com is for. "/

I gathered that after I posted

So, by your reasoning, iPod Videos should snap when you put them in your pocket, because they're as thin as the iPhone. "/

It depends what you do with them really, anything can snap. The most minimal damage is the screen cracking with a video, with the iPhone, it would be the casing, or anything inside. "/

lol they're not the same kind of aluminium. It's like saying computer material is crap because its made of plastic, and I've used plastic drinking straws and they're not durable at all. "/ The densities of material is different so the results are very drastic. But that should be logic, not something needing an explanation.

So it must be a weaker form of aluminium, because if it was stronger than the aluminium of a can, they wouldn't snap so easily "/

Common sense would be knowing what action to take upon reaction of something. Since I am responding to your post, I'm using common sense to do so (because it was directed at me). And I ask for sources of things because you've already been incorrect several times because I've proved you wrong. "/

Not always "/ You can get physical common sense, using reasoning to understand how something could work. Like obviously if you want something with rought the same density of a straw, it would bend with hardly any effort "/

I never said anything about photos? "/ The Internet is great for finding stuff like this. People will usually whine about it on their personal blog and so looking for these things should be easy if they actually happened. So by proving your findings I meant sourcing people on this, not telling me things that happened to your friends. I too can claim my friends had x brand mp3 player and it broke, malfunctioned, and exploded. Does that mean it happened because I'm saying it did? So having a situation you can't actually claim as your source cannot be held in debate simply because the instance cannot be proven factual or false. "/

But if I did link you to a blog about this, then you would just argue that they have no proof about it "/ The fact I have seen these with my own eyes is enough, considering this is hardly a huge debate, it only turned to one because you believe it to be. Considering the forum audience isn't one made up mainly of big time debaters, its main purpose was a pretty basic debate on things "/

Oh, and on 'Rachels' iPod, did you geniuses ever try unlocking it first? :rolleyes:

Of course "/ If I didn't then she would of said she fixed a few days later. But she didn't, she got a different MP3 player in the end, because Apple claimed it was her fault, even though it just locked and never turned off "/

And again, I'll ignore your reasoning because I know that customer service is popular because of people like you.

You're ignoring it because it is true "/ I emailed creative about my problem and they said there is no need to get an update unless I think it is necessary. It was a problem with the screen, which an update won't do "/

Firmware updates are like computer updates (Windows Updates, etc). They fix issues that would otherwise go unnoticed by the user to improve the performance of the product. Even though the computer itself is working perfectly, updates are still needed for best performance. "/

As stated, if it is working perfectly well, why waste time with it? Performance is hardly anything to worry about when it is performing well "/

[quote=HUGECOOL]Which is why your reasoning is stupid. You don't only need updates when the whole product decides to crap up./QUOTE]
This is coming from someone who denies the fact that you don't need to update performance when it is performing well to begin with "/

[Oni]

In a small group you can notice the problems "/ That's how some surveyors get the information with products, by analyzing small groups at a time to pick out the pros and cons. Say for example you take 6 people, 3 with one company and 3 with another. You tally the problems and get the outcome. Obviously you wouldn't count all of them globally, because it is a waste of effort and time, because in that time the information would become invalid if the product is updated.

Although the iPod is popular, it still means that each iPod is the same. If Apple let a completely trashed iPod go, they should have the brains to stop manufacteur to see if the whole batch has an error, as do most companies. When you get reviews on an iPod, there are about 5 times more reports on it than a Zen, which would get one or two. This can indicate that an iPod is prone to more problems than a Zen (or other company). t's the fact that the iPod has more obvious flaws than a Zen. A Zen is created to withstand day to day life. The iPod was designed to look pretty above most things "/


Apple advertised the iPod at the right time to the right people, but it still doesn't mean the product is any better. Mc Donalds gets celebs, cartoons etc to appear on their products, doesn't mean the food is any better, obviously "/

Sony, Creative, Samsung and so on never needed to advertise, because they were already well known, which is probably where they went wrong. Apple still has loads of battles go on, like this download issues where if you download from iTunes, you cannot play the music on any other MP3 player. They will always be known to some people for copying an idea from one company and effectively winning the battle by notoriously making up at the last minute that they used the technology for years, even though it hasn't. They will always be known to be designed impractical for most users. The only sturdy iPod which I liked was the iPod mini, because it was built nicely and noticebly didn't crash/break/snap like the replacement iPod nano "/


Wishful thinking on Microsofts part by the looks of it "/ And looking at reports from France and other European country, Apple doesn't believe in FairPlay with their "un-social" DRM "/ So if you want a song from iTunes, you have to go use another company. So Apple are just doing anti-competitive behaviour.


Before this, Apple had their own Microsoft Office called AppleWorks? They still have this I believe, but Apple knew it was crap so they knew what the next best thing was to do, get Microsoft Office, which is used globally by lots of people.


I don't even know how I got dragged into the OS argument, I only described the basic information that I know, but the argument developed and I got sucked into it.


He may know just about as you "/ You could study alot at home about Law and still achieve about as good knowledge as a Graduate. This is where Home School comes in. You can learn to do your GCSE's at hoome and still take the exam and pass with flying colours. So this argument is flawed "/


Which I agree on, it's all down to what a user wishes to do with a system.


The point is, that Windows is better with what you can do with the system, while OS X is all down to how far you can go because Macs block off areas. More companies are capable of infinitely editting a Windows System to however they please, than what they can do with a Mac. Macs are harder to upgrade hardware wise than a Windows System.


You don't need experience with something "/ So you're the sort that would drink acid just to know it can kill you? You can use reason in an argument, it is just as good as experience "/ And I've used someone else? No, I've gathered information from loads of people as sources to get an outcome for the argument and how they are run. Apple are an anti-competitive company who are trying to be the best by doing everything, which is actually against the law, by trying to control a whole consumer environment. Choice is what is needed, not everything being Apple Products "/


It's as simple as having common sense as to not touch stuff you don't know what you're doing. You have to be pretty thick if you see something and descide to delete it "/ And some users do play around with those folders, but they're normally advanced. Again, it is the users fault if they are dumb enough to delete stuff they have no idea what they're doing. If you don't know what it is, leave it. You can hide these folders away with proper administrative tools. It is, what theya re there for "/

So it is simple "/


People are often told to get a proper working spyware and firewall on their computers, if they are dumb enough to ignore this, they probably deserved it and possibly have nothing important on the system in the long run worth protecting anyway.

I also read yesterday on my Wii that Vista comes with a built in Spyware program, which sounds interesting. But I will wait until all the bugs are fixed until I get it.


Hardware is something a user would need for usability, productivity and out-of-the-box experience "/ Without it, you won't have anything to use, it would just be a blank screen "/ For example, RAM to speed up the computer which makes it faster to use and therefore increases productivity "/


Vista systems can handle far more than 16GB of RAM, but it will costs alot and there is no where to put all the hardware into it. And I agree, delving into this which just be another "this system does roughly the same as this." So the argument which just turn into another argument which will get us off the original argument, which seems to be buried somewhere...


Loads of people press the first letter of the contact, the only person I know who doesn't is my mum, who does now because she spent ages looking for a contact and I told her to press the first initial "/ It does have quite a fast scrool action the iPhone, but it is still faster to just type the first letter of the contact in the long run. Especially if you have lots of contact. It will just be tiring and wasteful time, where you need to make that quick phone call:

"Agghh! I need to phone my nan!" *scrolls up* "Nope, that Barbara" *scrolls more* "Nope, thats Fred" *scrolls more* "Nope, that's Jess"

I could go on for ages, but you should hopefully get the point.


Not really? I never praised the Prada phones camera, I was praising the fact that it looks more impressive and has what the iPhone has (expect multi-touch screen) and it is coming out before the iPhone. I never said it was 100&#37; better "/


So where did this argument come from? Were we agreeing to the same thing but discussing it as if we weren't?


It does look familiar, so I'll go with that. It still proves that reviews Apple did on their product were biased, rather than truthful. Apple were said that the iPod was the best sounding MP3 player when it was released. But Sony has, and possibily still is, the best soudning MP3 player out there.


It's not, but just pressing a button or flicking a switch is easier than holding a button which already has a purpose.


But in most countries, Wireless Internet is hard to come by which is actually free and easy to use. It would be great in places like North (or South, can't remember) Korea and parts of America, but in Britain, you'll just have to pay for it, and us Brits can be very picky about this It'll be easier just to use at home, where you can save the files and work just a tab more easily with a full keyboard, than the iPhone keypad.


Pffft, you're lucky. At UK Starbucks, you have to pay and most Wireless Connections are passwrod protected or locked down so you can't use them. Businesses ask you to input a username and password, which you can't easily get a hold of. It's very different here in the UK than there in the US.


You can still have some idea, so when you do use the product, you'll know near enough exactly what to do.


Hmmmm, fascinating. So the technology behind the multi-touch screen on the iPhone and Synaptic phone are from different sources, but are roughly the same? There is still a possibility that FingerWorks got the idea orignally from the touch-pad that Synpatics brought out when notebooks/laptops came around.


I saw it when he was holding down a button at the bottom of the iPhone and with the other he pressed an icon to open the iPod.


Visual voice mail is just an improved idea on regular voice mail, nothing too spectacular and out of the ordinary about that "/


We'll just have to wait till it is released or more information comes out about it. Apple.com has hardly any information on it, like specifications. It just talks about products it has made already and the touch screen.


That's not what you said, you said resizing the pictures, not the gap between your finger and thumb:

"All the videos I've seen with the iPhone, the user operates the phone with one finger, and two when resizing pictures."

Which was said on the other page "/


So how comes you said it was for resizing the images :rolleyes:


No, it still looks to me that you were talking about the applications already installed on the phone. It doesn't matter if a word has an "s" on the end, it still needs a word that describe "Something that can handle alot of applications on."


Because it is still new technology, which an audience want? Regardless to whether it has multi-touch or not "/


Sony Ericsson k800i comes with:

Face Warp
HP Print
Photo Mate
Video DJ
Photo DJ
Music DJ
Radio
Bluetooth Remote Control
Sound Recorder

Mainly Sony phones "/


So it's basically another version of what Sony has on their phones of Running Apps, My Shorts cuts and so on?


No, the main purpose of the iPhone is the fact it is a phone "/ How do you know playlists can be made manually? And what is the difference between smart playlists and regular playlists?


A smart feature would be have a menu on the right or left hand side of the screen which has letters of the alphabet which can go straight to the menu. Plus, this argument of how quick it can do certain things came from your argument.

Then you scroll when you have the letter, it still makes it faster than the finger scroll "/ One click which is like a few scrolls with the finger if you are heading towards the middle of the alphabet, then a few small scrolls which still take a few finger scrolls on the iPhone. Do the math


This would be useless in Britain, Google Maps cannot zoom in close enough to see anything. When it does get close enough, it goes all blurry and you can't really notice anything "/ The iPhone is really only good in America, and London.


As stated, you can't see much in a blur "/ You would be better off using MultiMaps.com, Google Maps cannot zoom in close enough to get any good detail. And if you really wanted to know what a place looks like., surely you would want a more portrait view? Rather an overhead view? "This is a nice roof, let's go there!" This really only effects anyone who doesn't live in America.


And as I am stating, you cannot implement a tool any differently on the iPhone than you would on any other phone that may come out with the same features. "/


So you are going against your idea that the phone would look like that when it is released and stating pretty much what I said?


Meh, go crazy


Considering the height of it, it can fit in a pocket without a bit sticking out "/ When I did my Zen in my pocket, I was walking, which means my leg can freely move about, when I sat down it was uncomfortable and I just took it out and shuved it in my bag.


It goes in my bag normally, it depends if I am in a hurry and haven#t got the time to put it in my bag so I just run off with it in my hand put it in a trouser pcoket or coat pocket "/ The original argument was the iPhone I believe, not the iPod, even though iPod Nanos have been proven to snap in trouser pockets "/


No I don't wear skin tight jeans, I like comfort rather than pain

Resting stuff on your thigh is worse to rest objects on inside your pocket "/ Because that's where it gets tight and naturally where you leg and hip bend. With pockets that aren't deep, the iPhone cannot fit comfortable unless you really want to see if it can bend.


I gathered that after I posted


It depends what you do with them really, anything can snap. The most minimal damage is the screen cracking with a video, with the iPhone, it would be the casing, or anything inside. "/


So it must be a weaker form of aluminium, because if it was stronger than the aluminium of a can, they wouldn't snap so easily "/


Not always "/ You can get physical common sense, using reasoning to understand how something could work. Like obviously if you want something with rought the same density of a straw, it would bend with hardly any effort "/


But if I did link you to a blog about this, then you would just argue that they have no proof about it "/ The fact I have seen these with my own eyes is enough, considering this is hardly a huge debate, it only turned to one because you believe it to be. Considering the forum audience isn't one made up mainly of big time debaters, its main purpose was a pretty basic debate on things "/


Of course "/ If I didn't then she would of said she fixed a few days later. But she didn't, she got a different MP3 player in the end, because Apple claimed it was her fault, even though it just locked and never turned off "/


You're ignoring it because it is true "/ I emailed creative about my problem and they said there is no need to get an update unless I think it is necessary. It was a problem with the screen, which an update won't do "/


As stated, if it is working perfectly well, why waste time with it? Performance is hardly anything to worry about when it is performing well "/

...Wow i bet your courseworks the size of Lord of the Rings +rep

[GommeInc]

...Wow i bet your courseworks the size of Lord of the Rings +rep

Crums, is that how big our replies are? Gosh, never knew that :s

Anyway, thanks I guess...?

[Josh-H]

It IS a good idea. No debate its a big step forward for the phone industry.


Don't like it? Don't buy it?

[Andys]

Good idea, i'm hoping to get one