Concerning rule A33

[GommeInc]

If you want to describe a French German or Russian review, such as a magazine article? Why can't you simply plug it into a translator yourself then? Apparently its so ridiculously easy

And makes about as much sense as a cat wearing a clowns outfit in a tumble dryer :rolleyes: It's easier to post the main section of the review which you can recognise, and posting it on the forum and having a discussion on what it is about, with the obvious main parts translated by you to begin with.

It is a wasted effort, I agree. Does that mean people don't do it? Of course not. Scamming to obtain virtual pixels is completely pointless and a wasted effort. Are there scammers on the hotel? Of course. I personally have been insulted in German slang, and the translators actually wouldn't do it for me, I have a German friend and I had to wait about 4 hours before I could even get a proper translation when he came online. So yes, people do do it, it was happening rather often when the rule was imposed. Also, bullying could take place, where two people criticize a third, or whatnot. We have to be able to monitor *EVERYTHING* that goes on, because there's always a chance that we're liable.

There's a problem with this. With scamming, anyone can understand and fall into it, while speaking a foreign language is something only a minority will understand. The only similarity is that you have to be stupid to be scammed or use a language not many will understand. I don't see why you make the exception to stop people speaking in foreign languages, when you can't even stop people insulting each other in English. I would of thought stopping foreign languages would be the least of your troubles. May I ask, was this insult on this forum on in real life, because if it was on the forum, you could of simply of dealt with it without waiting...

What I have noticed is, when there are insults chucked about, they are dealt with after the first insult has been broken out, so why can't you deal with any foreign languages when an insult has been taken, like you would with normal forum life?

Where do you get that? Also, if we believed everyone could speak any language and fully understand it...we would allow other languages, would we not? The majority of the world does speak, at the very least, limited English however.

Tis obvious. You've made it that way by having the whole argument in the first place. When someone posts something in french, german etc, you immediately think it is an insult, when it could be something understandable when given an explaination. And if everyone did speak any other language, you still wouldn't give them such a right because for some illogical reason, Management, staff and moderators can't speak a word of French, German etc. Besides, it's all an insult by the looks of how the rule has effected staff.

I don't see why you can't allow foreign language, because they do no harm, but if they do, simply remove the text "/

I can see why some people who left Habbox disagree with how tight the restrictions are.

[Ella]

If the world doesn't speak English, how will they use Habbo.co.uk? If they don't use (or never used to use) Habbo.co.uk, why would they use HabboxForum? Plus, the majority of the world can speak English. Why, you seem to be pretty fluent in it yourself

I don't use Habbo.co.uk - I use Habbox Forum, but I ignore the Habbo related stuff. Just like I normally skim past the the webdesigner related stuff.

And a reason? We want to, it would help younger members (who perhaps have to learn Welsh/Gaelic) become more fluent by talking in it, within a discussion type situation. Rather than the often rigid way they would be taught it. So you could have a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside that you were helping educate, by having a small forum for Welsh and Gaelic speakers.

[Cwmbran]

LOL Tell me how you have come to these figures? These figures include the entire Welsh school children population from the age of 4 - 14 and very few actually have welsh as their first language and would not learn it unless it was compulsory. They do not use it at home or outside the classroom. I think you have plucked 60% as a figure out of the sky and I am sure the whole forum can say a German or French phrase but it doesn't mean they are using the language in any meaningful way.

As you said I "plucked them from the sky" if you take into account that I said "about 60% of Welsh people know some Welsh" I did not say that they could all speak it, or have conversations using it. Infact 60% could be an under estimate, as most Welsh people know the Welsh national anthem.

[Earthquake]

I know what you mean, My chinese name got removed

[Catzsy]

As you said I "plucked them from the sky" if you take into account that I said "about 60% of Welsh people know some Welsh" I did not say that they could all speak it, or have conversations using it. Infact 60% could be an under estimate, as most Welsh people know the Welsh national anthem.

I know the german national anthem but it doesn't mean a thing. Sorry that a silly thing to say in support of your arguement. Anyway the rule is here to stay so that's it really.

[Cwmbran]

I know the german national anthem but it doesn't mean a thing. Sorry that a silly thing to say in support of your arguement. Anyway the rule is here to stay so that's it really.

No it's not as that is what I meant by saying about 60% of Welsh people know some Welsh.

[Lycan]

I know the german national anthem but it doesn't mean a thing. Sorry that a silly thing to say in support of your arguement. Anyway the rule is here to stay so that's it really.

As a former staff member... not even a current staff member it isn't your place to say that the rule stays, and even if you were a staff member i don't think telling members that what they want can't happen is the right thing to do


What i've noticed most of the threads in the feedback section is that they are near all turned down... whats wrong with that.... i wonder.... ah thats right surely the members of the forum are able to tell what they want rather then being told what they want by thoose who have the power of Ignorance and that of fear of being banned.

All this thread requests is that the rule be changed to allow both Welsh and Galic languages to be used on the forum in conversation without being banned, theese are reconised British national languages and in theory should be allowed anyway as this is the UK HabboxForum. so far most of the staff and other members have tried putting this request down by mentioning about more Foreign languages from other countries, as far as Welsh and Galic are concerned they are not foreign langauges as England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are one country and therefore you cannot really consider the languages they speak as Forign.

Opening the door to all languages would be a mistake and pointless for a few reasons including that nobody has requested this, but surely the support for allowing two languages to be spoken on this forum is shown and should not be simply ignored and given the standard can't happen, won't happen atitude

All this thread has requested is the rule change, not asking for anything other then a rule change, the Managment are worried that people will start swearing and abusing each other, but this already happens anyway, surely giving the forum members what they want might even reduce this rebel way towards staff.

Should this Forum just give a flat handed no to other languages, thoose of a different culture or should it just allow open handed to thoose who live in the same Uk country that this forum is meant to be the Habbox counterpart of and are proud of their language who wish to express themselves in their own local culture which could be your culture, your past... just because you personally may not want to do it doesn't mean others don't also,

Shoudn't Minorities be listened to on this forum to? shoudn't the voice of each of the members be heard and for once perhaps listen and give the little guy with the little voice who speaks out and wants to be heard... what he wants

I'm not after a post disecting what i've said snapping away at any mistake i've made or a simple no how about more of a Can do, discuss if the rule won't be changed what can happen instead

and to be honest telling someone to go post on another forum because this forum isn't open to new ideas is a very stupid and immature thing to do, just because someone is different or proud of something and wishes to just socially discuss a language does not mean they should be thrown out and classed an different idiot..

[nvrspk4]

Sierk made a very good point that I hadn't even thought about, but it makes a whole lot of sense. If we want to foster a community, it should be open for all to see. By allowing people to speak these languages and teach it to certain people, we establish divides, and sometimes have distinctions made between the two groups.

And makes about as much sense as a cat wearing a clowns outfit in a tumble dryer :rolleyes: It's easier to post the main section of the review which you can recognise, and posting it on the forum and having a discussion on what it is about, with the obvious main parts translated by you to begin with.

That would be pretty cool. I'll try that one day. I doubt many people read a German review at all. But I don't see what you mean and why it can't just be put in English :S

There's a problem with this. With scamming, anyone can understand and fall into it, while speaking a foreign language is something only a minority will understand. The only similarity is that you have to be stupid to be scammed or use a language not many will understand. I don't see why you make the exception to stop people speaking in foreign languages, when you can't even stop people insulting each other in English. I would of thought stopping foreign languages would be the least of your troubles. May I ask, was this insult on this forum on in real life, because if it was on the forum, you could of simply of dealt with it without waiting...

What I have noticed is, when there are insults chucked about, they are dealt with after the first insult has been broken out, so why can't you deal with any foreign languages when an insult has been taken, like you would with normal forum life?

Just because not everyone can see it doesn't make it better. It shouldn't be allowed, whether the victim understands or not. That'd be us promoting people talking behind each others' backs in forms they can't understand. It was on the Forum, and I did deal with it, but I was still curious as to what it meant...but if this rule wasn't in place, I would not have been able to deal with it.

Also, the reason it becomes difficult to deal with foreign langauges is translation. Something that in the native tongue that is the equivalent of "poopyhead" or "dummy" which is relatively tame in English could be translated as something much more derogatory, and thus a warning would be handed out for something that was not meant to be bad, and an argument would ensue.

If you would like, I can PM you a very innocent statement that when translated twice suddenly becomes a hell of a lot less innocent

Tis obvious. You've made it that way by having the whole argument in the first place. When someone posts something in french, german etc, you immediately think it is an insult, when it could be something understandable when given an explaination. And if everyone did speak any other language, you still wouldn't give them such a right because for some illogical reason, Management, staff and moderators can't speak a word of French, German etc. Besides, it's all an insult by the looks of how the rule has effected staff.

No, everything that's posted has the *potential* to become an insult, and something that we are unable to translate.

I don't see why you can't allow foreign language, because they do no harm, but if they do, simply remove the text "/

I have made this point again and again. Don't tell me that they don't do harm. Prove to me that there's a problem with the current system, and there's a concrete need that this proposed rule change would fill.

I can see why some people who left Habbox disagree with how tight the restrictions are.

In all honesty, things have become much more lenient, but I think that every time we change something, members get used to it, and it immediately again becomes "they're too strict." It would continue to be "they're too strict" until we were down to one last very lenient rule, like don't insult others. Then they'd say that it should be abolished. Then we'd have no rules, and people would complain about how everyone was being mean to them. Its really what happens. Whenever we make a change, it immediately is like, "Oh yay." and then three days later "This still sucks."

I don't use Habbo.co.uk - I use Habbox Forum, but I ignore the Habbo related stuff. Just like I normally skim past the the webdesigner related stuff.

And a reason? We want to, it would help younger members (who perhaps have to learn Welsh/Gaelic) become more fluent by talking in it, within a discussion type situation. Rather than the often rigid way they would be taught it. So you could have a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside that you were helping educate, by having a small forum for Welsh and Gaelic speakers.

That's where the education forum comes in. As for wanting to do it in normal situations, this board is not one where you learn Gaelic. And if you want it in "normal situations" then you would be posting in threads where others were attempting to have a discussion. But as you said, helping to "Educate". Education forums. I don't see why that's not usable...

I know what you mean, My chinese name got removed

That's for a different reason, we don't allow special characters anymore due to simplicity reasons. Like if someone is attempting to search your name, or look you up in ACP, etc. etc. Itd be very difficult to type your name into a PM as well

As a former staff member... not even a current staff member it isn't your place to say that the rule stays, and even if you were a staff member i don't think telling members that what they want can't happen is the right thing to do

Its her right as a member of the forum to express her opinion - just as much as it is for you to express yours.

What i've noticed most of the threads in the feedback section is that they are near all turned down... whats wrong with that.... i wonder.... ah thats right surely the members of the forum are able to tell what they want rather then being told what they want by thoose who have the power of Ignorance and that of fear of being banned.

Yes, most of the threads in the Feedback Section are turned down. And many for valid reasons. Because the people that suggest them know one side of the aisle. They don't know both. And because of that, they can't see the flaws in their plan. Believe me, I know firsthand, it is nearly impossible to find flaws with your own plan. Others need to find them for you. Members can tell what they want - but there's a distinction between what people want and what they can have. After all, I wouldn't mind a million bucks

All this thread requests is that the rule be changed to allow both Welsh and Galic languages to be used on the forum in conversation without being banned, theese are reconised British national languages and in theory should be allowed anyway as this is the UK HabboxForum. so far most of the staff and other members have tried putting this request down by mentioning about more Foreign languages from other countries, as far as Welsh and Galic are concerned they are not foreign langauges as England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are one country and therefore you cannot really consider the languages they speak as Forign.

Why though. Apart from the fact that they are official languages, what purpose would they serve, apart from simply giving you the right, and helping to "teach" other students, which can be done in the Education forums or over MSN. What functionality do Gaelic and Welsh have that English is not fit for?

Opening the door to all languages would be a mistake and pointless for a few reasons including that nobody has requested this, but surely the support for allowing two languages to be spoken on this forum is shown and should not be simply ignored and given the standard can't happen, won't happen atitude

I suggest you look back and take a count of how many people agree with you on the basis of ONLY those three, and how many people don't So based on your logic, don't count the people who advocate allowing other languages such as German as well. Once you count those up I think you will see that the "support for allowing two langauges to be spoken on this forum" that is "shown" is in the minority. Not trying to be snotty, I'm just stating the facts.

All this thread has requested is the rule change, not asking for anything other then a rule change, the Managment are worried that people will start swearing and abusing each other, but this already happens anyway, surely giving the forum members what they want might even reduce this rebel way towards staff.

Should this Forum just give a flat handed no to other languages, thoose of a different culture or should it just allow open handed to thoose who live in the same Uk country that this forum is meant to be the Habbox counterpart of and are proud of their language who wish to express themselves in their own local culture which could be your culture, your past... just because you personally may not want to do it doesn't mean others don't also,

What is the functionality? WHY do you need this, apart from simply being able to speak it? Having a right just to have a right is entirely pointless. You should have a right for a reason, to fill a need. I'm not saying that there's no chance that these languages fill a need that English cannot, apart from teaching or simply speaking the languages themselves, however I cannot think of one, and nobody has presented one, so it seems that the status quo is not wrong.

Shoudn't Minorities be listened to on this forum to? shoudn't the voice of each of the members be heard and for once perhaps listen and give the little guy with the little voice who speaks out and wants to be heard... what he wants

Minorities are listened to. But if we gave every five members whatever they wanted, there'd be a ridiculous amount of concessions. The minority is one thing. The minority with a majority opposed is another. If the minority wants it and nobody cares, we might consider it. If the minority wants it and the majority opposes it, in all honesty its simple. We can't please everyone, so we seek to please the greatest amount. Its simple really.

I'm not after a post disecting what i've said snapping away at any mistake i've made or a simple no how about more of a Can do, discuss if the rule won't be changed what can happen instead

I dissected what you said, but not exactly snapping away.

and to be honest telling someone to go post on another forum because this forum isn't open to new ideas is a very stupid and immature thing to do, just because someone is different or proud of something and wishes to just socially discuss a language does not mean they should be thrown out and classed an different idiot..

You're not being discarded as an idiot, not at all. However, this forum isn't a forum dedicated to celebrating the languages or culture of the British, Gaelic, or Welsh. A universal langauge has been selected so that the entire community can participate. Because we don't want to exclude.


Not to be harsh or anything, but until someone can give me a decent reason what functionality allowing Welsh or Gaelic to be spoken serves other than simply being allowed to speak the language, and why English cannot sufficiently meet that need, and can also explain why we should allow another language which cannot be spoken by the entire board, thus segmenting our community and causing problems and factions, I doubt this will be seriously considered.

Damn that was a long sentence, there's no way that's not a runon...

[Ella]

You say no. Because you want the whole community to be able to get involved. But since we've already come up with a solution to this. (Post next to it in English) Then surely they could just join in without the Welsh/Gaelic (I think its unlikely that they would but...the option is there). For example,

Beacon: Halo - Hello
Blaine: Cimar a tha thu? - How are you?
Bob: Good thanks. You? (obviously he has no need to post a translation)

Yet another solution.

[Lycan]

Damn you Nvr, everytime i write a long post you have to reply with one! , Just not fair i tell you! (also, there is a chance you will get a million 'bucks' but the chance of changing the rule is bigger and also easier..... if it makes you feel better money wise theres a penny in my bed... not sure how it got there)

Firstly, i respect that she can post her own view but i don't feel that posting in such a way is the way to understand others and to progress on the forum,

I'd like to make it clear that i probebly woudn't speak another language on this forum anyway but instead i'm arguing because its still the right thing to do is to allow other languages to be spoken on the forum.

why do we allow people to post on the subject of television.... is it because people like to talk about whats on tv?

why do we allow people to post spam.... is it because you need a place to express randomness that dosn't fit anywhere else

Why should we allow people to post in a British national language.... because thats what they want to do, much like people want to discuss tv or th randomness that doesn't fit anywhere else thy wish to discuss another language

If in the end it just boils down to your worried that people will abuse the rule change perhaps trialing the change to see if it goes well, even if 1 or 2 people start speaking Welsh to each other randomly in the spam section and no one else does surely letting thoose two people be happy is better then just making the cold hand of Nvr say no (i realise its not you personally i just really wanted to say the cold hand of nvr)

sometimes things don't have to have real functionality to make us happy, how about to allow people to speak just to look nice... allowing more people to speak a languge is not divercity, that would be making them go somewhere else but still involving them in the community is what would be a stronger comunity anyway

the idea of saying that you'd have to get mods to go through translaters is a waste of time i'm not sure is quite true, if it meant people (even for the sake of a small group of people) i would personally happy mointor it even into busy day because i don't believe that a no is ever good enough and that both sides should atlast attempt to meet each other half way over the problem rather then the standard of the person(s) who agree with the idea changing it constantly to try and please the staff while the staff just sit there (or in nvrs case reply to my posts with an even larger post) with alot of words which still boil down to the conclusion of a no