HabboxForum Reformal Plan Proposal

[Catzsy]

But it sounds too much like the American political system to me...? All we need is somebody to suggest the election of a president and we're there. I vote Catszy .

Oh dear what have I done to upset you? Its an interesting concept that could be considered although I would like to see how the Council evolves.

[H0BJ0B]

I don't really like any of the ideas you said. None appeal to me. You mentioned giving users more say. That's what MAD has been doing in these polls and threads. The other ideas, are, to be honest, pants.

[RussianDanovar]

I don't really like any of the ideas you said. None appeal to me. You mentioned giving users more say. That's what MAD has been doing in these polls and threads. The other ideas, are, to be honest, pants.

Asking users what skin they prefer isn't a say. This set of ideas wouldn't be a 'Let's see what they think but won't listen' type of thing. This way issues that need addressing would be brought up by the Community Management and would be put in a poll. Haven't you not noticed that management seems out of touch with the majority of the forum? The Reputation fiasco is a good example. If this were implemented it would give users a choice of whether it should be easier to earn reputation or harder to earn reputation - that is a true choice and the winning results would be what happens, what YOU the public say goes. That's how it should be and it's how I hope it will be one day.

[Adzeh]

Oh dear what have I done to upset you? Its an interesting concept that could be considered although I would like to see how the Council evolves.

I meant you for president fool

Unless that it what you are saying is a punishment? :S :S :eusa_wall

[-Xiangu-]

I like those ideas.

[The Professor]

Opening

This plan is to change HxF for the better and most importantly give the public more of a say in what happens. It is known the more people have a impact in the way the forum works the more they will enjoy it and the better a reputation it will recieve.

1. The people's say
2. Management workings
3. Relaxing of rules
4. Reputation System Reformal & Awards
5. Elections
6. Openess

The people's say

The most important part of the Reformal Plan is this part. It consists of giving the public more of a say on what goes on with HxF. The idea is simple, let the people choose as that will be the most popular decision.

• Give users the right to a referendum on rule changes.
• Give users the right to a referendum on forum changes.
• Give users the ability to elect the Community Management every 2 months or so.

Under these plans a lot of things that go on around the forum will be decided on referendums. Major sites/forums in the past have and are ignoring what people want making the site/forum unpopular.

Management workings

Management must be sorted out as it is sometimes unclear who does what. This proposal will hopefully change that and make it much simpler. This change does not need implementing until the forum gains more of it's popularity back.

1. 'The Senate' - Consists of sierk, ---MAD---, forum manager, techie, etc and a elected who is selected by the forum community. Their jobs will be to do extra work around the forum, advertise the forum and organise staff departments, basically keep an eye on departments and be in touch with the public.
2. 'Congress' - Consists of Department Managers/Assistant Department Managers and the elected members of Community Management. Jobs are to look after their departments and raise any issues with the Senate. The Department Managers will be looking after their departments interests whereas the Community Managers will be looking after the publics' interests.

sierk, GM, Forum Manager etc are permanent Senate Members and another person is elected on a elected timescale which will go to the public in a referendum. Congress members are the people who will raise pressing issues with the members of the Senate. Anyone can stand for Senator aslong as they have a relatively clean record.

Relaxing of the rules

The forum rules must be looked through and decided which ones are needed and which ones aren't. The freeing up of a forum makes it so much better without seeing Infractions being handed out a lot. If a rule is accepted to be not nessercerily needed by the Senate after it's been raised by the Community Mangement Team & Congress then it will be put to the public in a referendum to see whether it is needed or not. Habbox should NOT been banning members who have been here for a while and post their opinions.

Reputation System Reform & Awards

The Reputation System to be reformed. People can choose how easy it should be to get reputation.

Awards such as a lot of reputation points given to people who have contributed a lot such as posting a lot, contributed by posting their opinions in referendum threads and discussions. I also propose all staff members who deserve it are given extra rep at the end of every month as a reward to boost morale.

Elections

There will be elections for a third Senate Member. The question is; How long does this member hold their position for before an election is called. I propose it is put to the public to decide when and how long a Senate Member stays in office for. I personally think each term in office should last between 3 - 6 months before an election is called.

The Community Management elections must also be held to elect two Community Managers to congress. I personally think each term in office should last 2 - 4 months before an election is called.

Openess

Openess is a big problem on forums. Many times when someone is fired/left or a decision is made there is confusion and anger at why. So I propose this.

• If the Senate choose not to call a referendum on an issue an announcement must be made fully explaining why a referendum hasn't been called and the reasons why that rule/issue must stay in place.
• When a staff member is fired/leaves a thread which is unbiased must be made explaining why.

I'll give this the honour of a proper reply because its actually a decent feedback thread, as opposed to "I hate habbox, you're all crap" which this forum is usually flooded by. Its nice to be able to have a decent conversation once in a while!

Peoples' say - If there were referendums on rule changes, there wouldn't be any rule changes. So, for example, when the rules on bullying were tightened to make the bullying infraction worth double the other infractions, people could hold a "referendum" and decide it's too harsh and management are being power mad and simply enjoy banning people which, lets face it, is what usually gets said around here. Vital rule changes wouldn't go through, and we'd end up with management having to take control anyway, making the referendum idea irrelavent.

As for relatively minor forum changes, the users actually get a big say anyway. People didn't like it when clubtropica/runescape got their own section on the forums, and they were ajusted accordingly. People wanted their Xbox live & wii codes displayed in their userbar thing (idk what its called), and it was done. Occasionally, MAD posts polls in the feedback forum, such as the "do you want rep removed" thread, which was answered with a "no" and rep therefore stood. I think the problem you are getting at the the few decisions, such as the big changing of reputation, which were obviously bad decisions and didn't really achieve much at all. I don't think that's something referendums can solve because the AGMs get all the opinion they need from these forums, the issue is more about the forum management themselves.

The American White House System - I think the council system already covers what you want achieved in that suggestion, again the main problem is with management not making the fullest use of it (or, from what i hear, much use at all). Your system wouldn't really achieve much more, just give different titles and have a slightly different structure, but it'd ultimately have the same goals and be run by the same people. It isn't a case of changing the system, its a case of it being used properly.

Relaxing of the rules - Personally I don't see any rules that can't easily be complied with by people with some sort of intelligence. I guess you're mainly referring to your last sentence: "Habbox should NOT been banning members who have been here for a while and post their opinions." Opinions can be easily put across without putting yourself in a situation where you get banned, you'll see in this post I've highlighted a couple of shortcomings in management in my opinion, and I won't receive any sort of warning for this, I'll put money on that. This is because it is constructive, well worded and not offensive to anyone, unless management take criticism personally, which they usually don't. I obviously can't publicly discuss your case, neither do I know anything about it other than what's already out in public, but I guess you must've crossed the line of being constructive and just moaning one too many times. Once you work out where the line is, its fairly easy to hover on it and get your point across while staying on the management's good side.

Reputation system - Its common knowledge this needs reforming, imo resetting to how it was, so I'd agree with you there, but you haven't actually suggested how to reform it. Using rep as a reward for members is an interesting idea, I'd quite like that to be put on trial, maybe other users could decide who deserves the rep? As for staff, I believe that's entirely up to the department managers

Elections - Again, should be covered by the council system.

Openness - Private things are private, in life generally, and on the forums. If someone is removed from a position in real life, it is uncommon for that reason to be disclosed by the company, more often than not it is by the individual, which is allowed on here.

I rather enjoyed typing that, I look forward to a nice reply Bear in mind these are purely how I interpret things, I can't speak for the greenies

Edit: How long has Catszy been a forum mod?

Second edit: 5000th post! PLATTYNUM!

[Thetan]

When I saw your name I expected you to start saying how he is being all negative, so I was quite surprised. I personally think this is probably unlikely though, no matter how much I would like it to happen.

[GommeInc]

I don't see a problem with how the forum is run at the moment. Just stick to the rules and things should be fine.
It's just mainly people who are having a hard time keeping within the boundaries of the forum rules who are complaining about the way this forum is run, because they have either been banned, infracted or cautioned about something they think is unfair.

And I've had none of them other than I was banned by someone who had no reason of doing so, so the criteria for moaning isn't quite exact

What some of you need to do is look at this from a different view, rather than looking at the names of different levels, think about how they are implimented.

Openness - Private things are private, in life generally, and on the forums. If someone is removed from a position in real life, it is uncommon for that reason to be disclosed by the company, more often than not it is by the individual, which is allowed on here.

Habbox isn't a company. Habbox is a fansite and should look upon a community like Habbo looks upon theirs, for fun and entertainment, and for freedom of expression restricted only by rules to keep balance.

[RussianDanovar]

I'll give this the honour of a proper reply because its actually a decent feedback thread, as opposed to "I hate habbox, you're all crap" which this forum is usually flooded by. Its nice to be able to have a decent conversation once in a while!

Peoples' say - If there were referendums on rule changes, there wouldn't be any rule changes. So, for example, when the rules on bullying were tightened to make the bullying infraction worth double the other infractions, people could hold a "referendum" and decide it's too harsh and management are being power mad and simply enjoy banning people which, lets face it, is what usually gets said around here. Vital rule changes wouldn't go through, and we'd end up with management having to take control anyway, making the referendum idea irrelavent.

As for relatively minor forum changes, the users actually get a big say anyway. People didn't like it when clubtropica/runescape got their own section on the forums, and they were ajusted accordingly. People wanted their Xbox live & wii codes displayed in their userbar thing (idk what its called), and it was done. Occasionally, MAD posts polls in the feedback forum, such as the "do you want rep removed" thread, which was answered with a "no" and rep therefore stood. I think the problem you are getting at the the few decisions, such as the big changing of reputation, which were obviously bad decisions and didn't really achieve much at all. I don't think that's something referendums can solve because the AGMs get all the opinion they need from these forums, the issue is more about the forum management themselves.

The American White House System - I think the council system already covers what you want achieved in that suggestion, again the main problem is with management not making the fullest use of it (or, from what i hear, much use at all). Your system wouldn't really achieve much more, just give different titles and have a slightly different structure, but it'd ultimately have the same goals and be run by the same people. It isn't a case of changing the system, its a case of it being used properly.

Relaxing of the rules - Personally I don't see any rules that can't easily be complied with by people with some sort of intelligence. I guess you're mainly referring to your last sentence: "Habbox should NOT been banning members who have been here for a while and post their opinions." Opinions can be easily put across without putting yourself in a situation where you get banned, you'll see in this post I've highlighted a couple of shortcomings in management in my opinion, and I won't receive any sort of warning for this, I'll put money on that. This is because it is constructive, well worded and not offensive to anyone, unless management take criticism personally, which they usually don't. I obviously can't publicly discuss your case, neither do I know anything about it other than what's already out in public, but I guess you must've crossed the line of being constructive and just moaning one too many times. Once you work out where the line is, its fairly easy to hover on it and get your point across while staying on the management's good side.

Reputation system - Its common knowledge this needs reforming, imo resetting to how it was, so I'd agree with you there, but you haven't actually suggested how to reform it. Using rep as a reward for members is an interesting idea, I'd quite like that to be put on trial, maybe other users could decide who deserves the rep? As for staff, I believe that's entirely up to the department managers

Elections - Again, should be covered by the council system.

Openness - Private things are private, in life generally, and on the forums. If someone is removed from a position in real life, it is uncommon for that reason to be disclosed by the company, more often than not it is by the individual, which is allowed on here.

I rather enjoyed typing that, I look forward to a nice reply Bear in mind these are purely how I interpret things, I can't speak for the greenies

Edit: How long has Catszy been a forum mod?

Referendums' would be held for minor rule changes, not ones which threaten Habbox's security/members. A referendum for instance could not be held for the scrapping of the anti-bullying rule as that is crucial. Rules like the negative feedback rule would be put to the public to see whether or not it is needed.

The white house system can be changed yes, however it is designed to replace a failed system which is the council. We saw it collapse a few months ago as I said right from the start. The truth is that the council isn't as strong as it could be if the WHOLE forum were to have a say, I would think most of this forum would like to have a say how it's run.

Rules on HxF have taken a new height. There are too many, too confusing and contradict eachother. Rules which are crucial would not be up for referendum but rules like negative feedback, is it right?, should debates be encourged, not discouraged? - could be put to the forum. A forum is less enjoyable when you see people being infractioned/banned for such small things.

The case of openess, I am not talking about personal reasons, more to the fact that if a staff member is fired then a balanced reason why that members was fired is to be posted/published. You would make a suitable candidate for that as you report you wrote on me when I was fired was unbiased and very informative.

The council has no power, this is designed to put someone up there in the top so when things are discussed they will be speaking for the users. Community Management address issues such as bans, any problems on the forum really. I am happy to see you agree with the rewards system, morale is always important to any site.

[The Professor]

Habbox isn't a company. Habbox is a fansite and should look upon a community like Habbo looks upon theirs, for fun and entertainment, and for freedom of expression restricted only by rules to keep balance.

When we try to act as a fansite, people say "well companies do this, this and this." We can't win!

Giving firing reasons can cause more problems than solutions. For example, if someone is fired for immaturity/negative attitude, this can seem extremely trivial. The person being fired can start a thread in feedback, and because the firing reason seems trivial, the members will most likely back the person being fired. However, sometimes decisions like that have to be taken - a negative attitude doesn't make a for a nice "workplace" (or forum) and can demotivate people, which is extremely easy to do in a job where the only motivation is your willingness to do the job an your enjoyment. The members go off on their "habbox is corrupt" rants, MAD get's annoyed and hits the forum destruct button, the world eneds. Elementory chaos theory

Referendums' would be held for minor rule changes, not ones which threaten Habbox's security/members. A referendum for instance could not be held for the scrapping of the anti-bullying rule as that is crucial. Rules like the negative feedback rule would be put to the public to see whether or not it is needed.

The white house system can be changed yes, however it is designed to replace a failed system which is the council. We saw it collapse a few months ago as I said right from the start. The truth is that the council isn't as strong as it could be if the WHOLE forum were to have a say, I would think most of this forum would like to have a say how it's run.

Rules on HxF have taken a new height. There are too many, too confusing and contradict eachother. Rules which are crucial would not be up for referendum but rules like negative feedback, is it right?, should debates be encourged, not discouraged? - could be put to the forum. A forum is less enjoyable when you see people being infractioned/banned for such small things.

The case of openess, I am not talking about personal reasons, more to the fact that if a staff member is fired then a balanced reason why that members was fired is to be posted/published. You would make a suitable candidate for that as you report you wrote on me when I was fired was unbiased and very informative.

The council has no power, this is designed to put someone up there in the top so when things are discussed they will be speaking for the users. Community Management address issues such as bans, any problems on the forum really. I am happy to see you agree with the rewards system, morale is always important to any site.

Agreed, the council system has failed (or appears to have failed, I can't see behind the scenes) but the system you suggested draws so many paralells you might as well slap a "council" sticker on it. I don't believe the way forward is just to elect new people with a different title, I think we should be working on making the current system work. Obviously I use the word "we" lightly, as we ourselves don't have any input except the electoral process.

A possible reason for the council not working may be the management not having the time/motivation to run it effeciently, which is perfectly plausible but at the same time they may be reluctant to admit this because it's their system and they won't much want to admit its failed because of them. Maybe if the council became entirely self-governing, with the upper management simply being the middleman between the council reports and things getting done and having less powers of veto so things go through, it would work more effeciently? Again, I don't know the inner workings of the council, nor am I accusing anyone of lazyness, its all hypothetical. But it could work.

I'm falling asleep here, so I'll make the rest of the replies relatively brief.

Openness - The article I wrote was mainly to explain the sudden price fluctuations in the ione gifts rather than report on reasons for firing, looking back in it maybe it went against the rules for talking about firing reasons in public, but people seemed to like it and it had the approval of the GMs so I think it was OK. Had it just been the case that you'd have been fired, I think you'd have raised the issue in public, so it wouldn't have needed to be written. As it stands now, if someone is fired and wants to talk about it, they are free to, but if they've accepted it and don't want it discussed, which I believe they have a right to, it won't be discussed. Personally I don't think that system is broken, so it shouldn't be fixed.

Rules - I think we'll have to agree to disagree. As a moderator I find it very easy to moderate the forum, and I hardly ever look at the rules themselves. Most are common sense, with a couple habbox-specific ones such as the foreign languages rule.

I think most of the issues can simply be solved by management internally changing the way things are done internally, such as replying to contact us so as to sort out ban issues and fixing the council etc. Once they've done that, maybe we can be talking about how to build on a good system rather than trying to work out new and interesting ways to make one that has shortcomings work